--- Log opened Wed Nov 23 00:00:18 2016
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06:30 < kanzure> bloop
06:31 < cluckj> bleep
06:43 < kanzure> fenn: docl: xentrac seems to be convinced that clanking replicator is near-term possibility due to "recent robotics advancements" (although i thought the bottleneck was materials knowledge or something?).   although, as of yet, he has not answered me regarding an estimate of total time cost or cost of prototyping.
06:44 < kanzure> also he seems to have an anti-biology bias when it comes to self-replicator design
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06:56 < kanzure> i wonder if moving the polar ice caps under water would be a good idea
06:56 < kanzure> for climate reasons
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07:14 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=dbd7377d Bryan Bishop: fix typo >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/bitcoin/somewhat-open-problems-draft/
07:14 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=40886e7d Bryan Bishop: also consider coinjoin in bitcoind >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/bitcoin/somewhat-open-problems-draft/
07:19 < kanzure> "Red-shifted opsin molecules and uses thereo" https://www.google.com/patents/US8957028
07:19 < kanzure> *thereof
07:19 < kanzure> (from https://twitter.com/eboyden3/status/801073309022650368 )
07:20 < kanzure> "The growing and glowing toolbox of fluorescent and photoactive proteins" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0968000416301736 ( https://twitter.com/erin_rod_phd/status/800843433287892992 )
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07:22 < kanzure> "All-optical functional synaptic connectivity mapping in acute brain slices using CaMPARI" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1113/JP273116/abstract ( https://twitter.com/MargolisLab/status/799716774954594304 )
07:24 < kanzure> "The calcium-modulated photoactivatable ratiometric integrator CaMPARI (Fosque et al., 2015) facilitates the study of neural circuits by permanently marking cells active during user-specified temporal windows. ... labeling neurons postsynaptic to specific populations targeted for optogenetic stimulation, giving rise to all-optical functional connectivity mapping. Here, we characterized the res...
07:24 < kanzure> ...ponse of CaMPARI to several common types of neuronal calcium signals in mouse acute cortical brain slices. Our experiments show that CaMPARI is effectively converted by both action potentials and sub-threshold synaptic inputs, and that conversion level is correlated to synaptic strength. ... we found that conversion rate can be tuned: it is linearly related to light intensity .. we employed Ca...
07:24 < kanzure> ...MPARI and optogenetics for functional circuit mapping in ex vivo acute brain slices, which preserve in vivo-like connectivity of axon terminals. With a single light source, we stimulated channelrhodopsin-2-expressing long-range posteromedial (POm) thalamic axon terminals in cortex and induced CaMPARI conversion in recipient cortical neurons."
07:29 < kanzure> optogenetic inactivation of frontal eye field (to study memory-guided eye movements) using ''red-light-shifted halorhodopsin Jaws' in primates http://www.pnas.org/content/113/46/E7297.abstract
07:32 < kanzure> "An optogenetic method to modulate cell contractility during tissue morphogenesis" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1534580715006851
07:33 < kanzure> "Morphogenesis of multicellular organisms is driven by localized cell shape changes. How, and to what extent, changes in behavior in single cells or groups of cells influence neighboring cells and large-scale tissue remodeling remains an open question. Indeed, our understanding of multicellular dynamics is limited by the lack of methods allowing the modulation of cell behavior with high spatio...
07:33 < kanzure> ...temporal precision. Here, we developed an optogenetic approach to achieve local modulation of cell contractility and used it to control morphogenetic movements during Drosophila embryogenesis. We show that local inhibition of apical constriction is sufficient to cause a global arrest of mesoderm invagination. By varying the spatial pattern of inhibition during invagination, we further demonstr...
07:33 < kanzure> ...ate that coordinated contractile behavior responds to local tissue geometrical constraints. Together, these results show the efficacy of this optogenetic approach to dissect the interplay between cell-cell interaction, force transmission, and tissue geometry during complex morphogenetic processes."
07:34 < kanzure> "Phy-PIF protein heterodimerization system, which can be switched on or off at two different wavelength"    oh this was anselm's work wasn't it
07:41 < kanzure> "A designer AAV variant permits efficient retrograde access to projection neurons" http://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(16)30580-3
07:43 < kanzure> "Ventral CA1 neurons store social memory" http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6307/1536 ('ventral hippocampal CA1 (vCA1) neurons of a mouse and their projections to nucleus accumbens (NAc) shell')
07:45 < kanzure> "Decreasing striatopallidal pathway function enhances motivation by energizing the initiation of goal-directed action" http://www.jneurosci.org/content/36/22/5988.abstract (targeting "dopamine D2 receptor in the striatum")
07:46 < kanzure> miniature camera for optogenetic stimulation and recording https://www.inscopix.com/products/nVista
07:47 < kanzure> they seem to have a bunch of videos http://media.inscopix.com/the-inscopix-decode-summit-videos-are-open-and-available
07:48 < kanzure> SfN was last week and i missed it. yay.
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07:51 < kanzure> 07:18 <+xentrac> clsn__: I wanted to mention that Freitas's 1980 lunar clanking replicator study suggested that basalt fiber extrusion was one of the crucial basic manufacturing processes
07:51 < kanzure> 07:18 <+xentrac> not quite the same as regular glass fiber
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08:53 < kanzure> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u556gwYhwnQ&t=50s
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15:21 < kanzure> "In warm regions, you could probably also increase iceberg longevity by using marine bubblers to cool surface water"
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16:03 < darsie> BTW, I joined due to this thread: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7170
16:04 < darsie> "I also advise you to talk to some of the people on ##hplusroadmap on Freenode (IRC), the only place I know of where people are actually working on this."
16:06 < kanzure> the most abundant and reprogrammable existing self-replicating machines are biological cells, for the moment.
16:10 < darsie> On Earth.
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16:12 < darsie> I want the galaxy be developed by self replicating machines so we can transmit uploaded minds between relay stations.
16:13 < docl> darsie: welcome!
16:13 < darsie> thx :)
16:13 < chris_99> i hope theres a flock of astrochickens working their way though the universe, clucking merrily away
16:14 < darsie> Actually, a couple of uploaded minds will come with every seed replicator.
16:14 < kanzure> darsie, what is your background and skills?
16:15 < darsie> I'm not sure, though, what will be first, replicators or mind uploading.
16:15 < kanzure> biological self-replication is already here. it was first by a long time ago.
16:15 < darsie> kanzure: I'm a bad chemist, computerist, electronicist.
16:15 < kanzure> what kind of bad chemistry do you badly do?
16:15 < darsie> hehe
16:16 < darsie> I just got an old analytical balance. Built 1958.
16:16 < darsie> 20 EUR.
16:16 < docl> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Seed_Factories is a good resource (from Dani Eder, a retired Boeing engineer)
16:16 < darsie> I don't do much.
16:16 < chris_99> have a photo of it? is it one that's in a glass cabinet
16:17 < kanzure> darsie: are you skilled in organic chemistry? this is a project around here-- http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
16:17 < docl> obviously there's also the older stuff like Kinematic Self Replicating Machines and Advanced Automation for Space Missions
16:22 < darsie> Analytical balance: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/P1150586.JPG http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/P1150588.JPG
16:23 < chris_99> nice! that looks really cool
16:23 < darsie> kanzure: No, I can do only very simple things.
16:23 < kanzure> oh
16:24 < kanzure> it's likely that making complex things would require complex skills, though
16:24 < darsie> I have no work experience and I didn't study chemistry. Just 5 year chem school instead of "high school".
16:25 < kanzure> i'm no fan of credentials or pursuing credentials, *shrug*
16:25 < chris_99> Anyone ever played with cascading PIDs per chance, and know of an idiots guide to them? Covering how you'd tune the 2 PIDs etc.
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16:29 < darsie> Last "chemistry" I did was an ethanol soxhlet extraction of capsaicin (oleoresin capsicum) from chili.
16:31 < chris_99> whatcha use that for?
16:31 < darsie> I show it off ;).
16:31 < chris_99> heh, by spraying it?
16:31 < darsie> I also have some dissolved in ethanol and use it as spice.
16:31 < chris_99> cool
16:32 < darsie> No, by dipping a needle tip in it and giving it to ppl.
16:32 < darsie> I'm about to sell two glass vials with liquid CO2 in it for viewing the critical point.
16:32 < darsie> I made those vials.
16:33 < chris_99> ooh
16:34 < chris_99> i watched ben krasnow's vid on something like that, i think he used thick acrylic or other plastic, got a vid of yours?
16:34 < darsie> Just pics.
16:34 < darsie> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Critical_carbon_dioxide.jpg
16:35 < darsie> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/CO2.html
16:35 < darsie> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/ebay/co2/ebay.html
16:36 < chris_99> that's really fascinating, you have to heat them i guess to get to the critical point right?
16:36 < darsie> yes. 31 C.
16:36 < darsie> Unless it's a hot day.
16:37 < darsie> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/-gallery.html
16:38 < chris_99> how do you fill them?
16:39 < darsie> Chill them with dry ice/alcohol and push CO2 in them which will freeze there. Then fuse them sealed.
16:40 < chris_99> ah neat, by push the co2 in, you mean, pushing the dry ice inside, while it's solid?
16:40 < darsie> No push CO2 gas in, which will resublimate.
16:40 < chris_99> oh
16:41 < darsie> At room pressure it would sublimate, but at increased pressure it will become solid.
16:42 < chris_99> my chemistry knowledge is poor, but sublimation, means skipping a state, as it changes right?
16:43 < darsie> it's the solid --> gas transition.
16:43 < darsie> without melting.
16:43 < chris_99> ah gotcha
16:44 < chris_99> they'd make a fun desk toy
16:45 < darsie> Yeah.
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16:45 < darsie> A drinking bird may be more fun. I made one, too.
16:45 < darsie> But it might be too distracting.
16:46 < chris_99> heh cool.  have you seen those stirling engines that run on your hands warmth
16:46 < darsie> I'd like to make a car that runs on water. Some heat engine that runs on the temperature difference between ambient and water cooled by evaporation, a sterling perhaps.
16:46 < darsie> yes.
16:47 < darsie> Maybe I'll mod one of those.
16:53 < streety> that looks really nice. I remember the ben krasnow video mentioned. The plastic used was really thick. Impressive that such thin glass is sufficient.
16:53 < chris_99> yeah the plastic was massive
16:53 < chris_99> i'm suprised too
16:54 < chris_99> that glass is enough at that thickness
16:54 < darsie> streety: It's a heavy walled glass tube.
16:54 < chris_99> ahh, how thick is it?
16:55 < fenn> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/co2.avi not thick enough apparently
16:56 < darsie> OD 10mm ID 5mm Wall 2,5mm
16:56 < darsie> I hope that's correct.
16:57 < chris_99> heh that vid is scary
16:58 < streety> yeah, I assumed the outer tube was intended to contain any failure. That didn't happen. What caused the failure?
16:58 < darsie> fenn: That was a test where I filled a tube completely with liquid CO2 to see how effective protective shield tubes are when the vial explodes.
17:00 < darsie> A heavy walled glass tube simply isn't effective. Polycarbonate is, but I dunno how long. It might get brittle after some decades. That's why I started to work on laminated glass tubes (glass, silicone, glass).
17:00 < darsie> The vials half way filled with liquid CO2 withstand 120 C.
17:01 < streety> For the tube actually containing the CO2 you might want to avoid plastics. The CO2 seems to infiltrate and could lead to failure.
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17:02 < streety> I was thinking a plastic coated glass would work well. Just like is often used for thermometers
17:02 < darsie> Well, the CO2 vials are glass. The explosion shield tube is polycarbonate.
17:03 < darsie> In the current working version.
17:03 < streety> that is what shattered in the video?
17:03 < darsie> No, that was a heavy walled glass shielding tube.
17:04 < streety> a little disconcerting that happened to something called a shielding tube
17:04 < darsie> It was a test.
17:04 < darsie> It's not what I used in production.
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17:05 < streety> I know, the test makes sense and is a good call. I'm still surprised though at the result
17:05 < streety> Have you tested the polycarbonate tube to destruction as well?
17:05 < darsie> Yes, PC works.
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17:06 < streety> great
17:07 < darsie> It's what I used here: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/dscn1939.jpg
17:07 < streety> are the wires at the bottom a heater?
17:08 < darsie> yes
17:08 < darsie> http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/-gallery.html http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/dscn1941.html
17:09 < streety> what is going on in this one: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/CO2/dscn9725.jpg ?
17:09 < darsie> CO2 is sloshing from left to right.
17:10 < darsie> Being turbulent with it's vapor which has almost the same density as the liquid.
17:11 < darsie> It's a storm in the water glass ;).
17:11 < streety> I could waste far too much time playing with that
17:11 < darsie> :)
17:11 < darsie> 50 EUR :)
17:12 < darsie> But shipping is ... finicky.
17:12 < streety> I might be better paying you 50 EUR to keep it away from me
17:12 < darsie> Compressed CO2 is a hazardous substance in air mayl.
17:13 < streety> sure
17:13 < darsie> I accept bitcoins ;).
17:14 < darsie> I don't have pics of the rain.
17:15 < darsie> When it cools down and becomes subcritical vapor spontaneously forms tiny droplets which fall down and the reduced pressure causes the liquid to start boiling. The cycle repeats a few times.
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 24 00:00:19 2016