--- Log opened Mon Jan 02 00:00:54 2017
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01:10 < Jenda`> win 26
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05:34 < Justinricher> Hi is anybody here
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05:45 < streety> Justinricher: hi
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06:12 < kanzure> "Dynamic nuclear magnetic resonance field sensing with part-per-trillion resolution" http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13702
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06:13 < kanzure> "Molecular imaging with engineered physiology" http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13607
06:13 < kanzure> "Here we demonstrate a concept for molecular imaging which bypasses the need for conventional imaging agents by perturbing the endogenous multimodal contrast provided by the vasculature. Variants of the calcitonin gene-related peptide artificially activate vasodilation pathways in rat brain and induce contrast changes that are readily measured by optical and magnetic resonance imaging. CGRP-ba...
06:14 < kanzure> ...sed agents induce effects at nanomolar concentrations in deep tissue and can be engineered into switchable analyte-dependent forms and genetically encoded reporters suitable for molecular imaging or cell tracking. Such artificially engineered physiological changes, therefore, provide a highly versatile means for sensitive analysis of molecular events in living organisms."
06:21 < kanzure>  ... "The vasculature is one of the most potent endogenous contrast sources available to imaging modalities. Changes in blood volume, flow or oxygenation are robustly detectable by MRI, optical and ultrasound-based noninvasive imaging, as well as by PET, single photon computed tomography and X-ray imaging performed in conjunction with intravascular tracers. The vasculature densely permeates mo...
06:21 < kanzure> ...st tissues. In the cerebral cortex, the mean distance from any point to a blood vessel is about 13 ?m (ref. 10)."
06:23 < kanzure> but how would you distinguish between normal vasodilation activity and reporter-influenced vasodilation?
06:25 < kanzure> "In the brain, noninvasive delivery past the blood-brain barrier (BBB) will be a particular priority, especially to address the challenge of translating this method into human subjects. Fortunately, the minimal amounts of vasoactive probes required for engineered haemodynamic imaging are likely to be conducive in the future to noninvasive trans-BBB delivery by means of receptor-mediated tran...
06:25 < kanzure> ...scytosis, a delivery technique which is proving successful in rodents, non-human primates and human clinical trials[34]."
06:25 < kanzure> [34] Pardridge, W. M. & Boado, R. J. Reengineering biopharmaceuticals for targeted delivery across the blood-brain barrier. Methods Enzymol. 503, 269-292 (2012).
06:25 < kanzure> "receptor-mediated transcytosis"
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10:33 < kanzure> some dow chemical history re: magnesium and bromine https://fee.org/articles/herbert-dow-and-predatory-pricing/
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17:59 < kanzure> ejoirqj093r10aid
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18:48 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzdxf_5e-JU
18:48 < yoleaux> Atlantropa Explained by Reichminister Heusmann - YouTube
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18:52 < kanzure> amateurs.
19:00 < BaconPlasma> best kind of porn
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19:16 < nmz787_w> waaazzzzzup
19:24 < kanzure> .wik transcytosis
19:24 < yoleaux> "Transcytosis is a type of transcellular transport in which various macromolecules are transported across the interior of a cell. Macromolecules are captured in vesicles on one side of the cell, drawn across the cell, and ejected on the other side. Examples of macromolecules transported include IgA, transferrin, and insulin." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcytosis
19:29 < nmz787_w> this on a 65" 4k TV is pretty immersive:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_P8RUqGQbM
19:29 < nmz787_w> .title
19:29 < yoleaux> 4K, Hoh Rain Forest - Nature Relaxation Video - YouTube
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19:59 < nmz787_w> wow
20:12 < BaconPlasma> this is great thanks nmz787
20:13 < BaconPlasma> are transhumanists also naturalists?
20:13 < BaconPlasma> doesn't longer life mean more resources are drained?
20:25 <@jrayhawk> not inherently naturalists, but there's a massive selection effect to that end
20:29 < BaconPlasma> im not so sure
20:29 < BaconPlasma> i think the selection effect is for the elites to basically assassinate the workers when they aren't needed
20:31 <@jrayhawk> forget i said anything
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20:32 < BaconPlasma> what?
20:32 < BaconPlasma> im just being hypothetically macroeconomic.
20:32 < BaconPlasma> people are already talking about Universal Basic Income.
20:33 < BaconPlasma> We can't have everyone who does nothing live extended lives on a finite resource set.
20:33 < BaconPlasma> this is just logic.
20:33 < BaconPlasma> either you control the population or the population depletes the resources that made you wanna live longer anyway.
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20:34 < BaconPlasma> I mean, talk to a European about crowding on the ski slopes.
20:34 < BaconPlasma> there's a lot of us.
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21:03 < JenElizabeth> hi all
21:05 < BaconPlasma> hi
21:16 <@fenn> hopefully when people have longer lifespans and have seen the destruction of the environment over time they will care about it more
21:17 <@fenn> we take the world we were raised with as how it's supposed to be, even though the buffalo are gone, the forests all chopped down, and you can no longer walk on the backs of the salmon as they swim upstream
21:17 <@fenn> if people were still alive who remembered how it was we would be more aware of this fact
21:18 <@fenn> also, many environmental efforts are limited by our technological capability to do things in general
21:19 <@fenn> david pearce has the "abolitionist project" which is sort of a hyper vegetarianism where we feed all the predators synthetic protein powder and cure all the diseases in all the creatures
21:19 <@fenn> i'm not really sure where it ends
21:22 <@fenn> anyway there's plenty of room on the planet
21:22 <@fenn> even if the subway is crowded
21:23 <@fenn> a better question would be whether it makes more sense to create more pleasant environments on earth or in space
21:46 < BaconPlasma> uh
21:46 < BaconPlasma> sounds like you're not aware of the realities involved with resource scarcity
21:47 < BaconPlasma> im not musing about a return to muir's wilds
21:47 < BaconPlasma> im saying, weve caused the 6th great extinction, and it's accelerating
21:47 < BaconPlasma> if you're a Transhumanist, you take one of three positions:
21:47 < BaconPlasma> 1) mandatory population control
21:48 < BaconPlasma> 2) environmental destruction
21:48 < BaconPlasma> 3) (1) in various disguises
21:48 <@fenn> UN population projections show population leveling off at around 10 billion on its own
21:48 <@fenn> mostly because rising standard of living reduces the pressure to have children
21:48 < BaconPlasma> are you familiar with recent trends?
21:49 <@fenn> i dont know what tabloid newspaper you get your data from
21:49 < BaconPlasma> How many people are living in refugee status at any given point in time?  How much of the human species has displaced the environment?
21:49 < BaconPlasma> recent trends.
21:49 < BaconPlasma> population, globally.
21:49 < BaconPlasma> it's not levelling off.
21:50 < BaconPlasma> now the Chinese want to live like Americans.
21:50 <@fenn> yes resource usage is increasing and will continue increasing
21:50 < BaconPlasma> http://www.earthday.org/take-action/footprint-calculator/
21:50 < BaconPlasma> there's a ceiling
21:50 < BaconPlasma> and we're already hitting it
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21:52 <@fenn> not just this particular page but all of the "progress" section of jmc's website is devoted to answering your question in general: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/population.html
21:53 < BaconPlasma> thats 1999
21:53 <@fenn> yes but the projections havent changed much
21:54 < BaconPlasma> http://www.financial-spread-betting.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/populationgrowthhistory2.jpg
21:54 < BaconPlasma> like that?
21:54 < BaconPlasma> what are they based on?
21:56 < BaconPlasma> "The advanced country with the densest population is the Netherlands, and the densest U.S. state is New Jersey. I occasionally have occasion to ask people from these places why they moved to California. In no case have they volunteered that they found their place of origin too crowded. "
21:56 < BaconPlasma> man no
21:56 <@fenn> i dont know read it yourself http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/Key_Findings_WPP_2015.pdf
21:56 < BaconPlasma> I dispute this utterly
21:57 < BaconPlasma> access to birth control is going to go down for the third world in the next 8 years, very significantly
21:57 < BaconPlasma> this will lead to more starving groups
21:57 < BaconPlasma> more resource scarcity will lead to more refugees
21:57 <@fenn> why do you think access to birth control will decline?
21:58 < BaconPlasma> and guess what my friend, this isn't hypothetical: the Mosul Dam is going to burst
21:58 < BaconPlasma> Trump is going to be president for 8 years
21:58 <@fenn> yes i could see that happening
21:58 < BaconPlasma> Now talk to me about resource scarcity and refugee culture everywhere
21:59 <@fenn> well it's just not that many people
21:59 < BaconPlasma> instead of it being a pulse due to a local confict, refugees are going global
21:59 <@fenn> i mean in the scale of world population
22:00 < BaconPlasma> the Tigris feeds a good portion of the region where a lot of terrorists live
22:00 < BaconPlasma> when that region is less inhabitable
22:00 <@fenn> ugh who fucking cares
22:00 < BaconPlasma> and in ecological crisis
22:00 < BaconPlasma> they flee and infect surrounding areas
22:00 < BaconPlasma> and the cycle of destruction can repeat
22:01 < BaconPlasma> imagine ISIS blowing up dykes in the Netherlands
22:01 <@fenn> you are just being comical now
22:01 < BaconPlasma> no, this is real
22:01 < BaconPlasma> that dam will burst
22:01 < BaconPlasma> 18' of water in Baghdad, submerging a lot of buildings
22:01 <@fenn> yeah it sucks
22:02 <@fenn> this is what happens when you elect republicans
22:02 < BaconPlasma> It would it would probably submerge the international airport. That would prevent relief crews from coming in.
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22:02 < BaconPlasma> I'm pointing out to you that resource scarcity is already beginning.
22:02 <@fenn> this has nothing to do with resource scarcity and everything to do with war and politics
22:02 < BaconPlasma> You imagine "water wars" as some futuristic improbability, staved off for generations by tech
22:02 < BaconPlasma> that's not wise
22:03 <@fenn> i'm sure you're like "war is caused by resource scarcity" but in this case no
22:03 <@fenn> the iraq war was caused by dick cheney being a greedy bastard
22:03 < BaconPlasma> Not all agree with you
22:03 < BaconPlasma> yes ofc the iraq war
22:03 < BaconPlasma> but for instance, syria
22:03 < BaconPlasma> http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/world-report/2013/09/13/syrias-crisis-was-sparked-by-global-warming-and-drought
22:04 <@fenn> the man literally has no heart, which is sort of an interesting transhumanist-relevant observation
22:04 < BaconPlasma> we obviously agree
22:04 < BaconPlasma> im more interested in how someone who want life extension can justify it in the face of dwindling resources.
22:05 < BaconPlasma> since that's more on topic
22:05 <@fenn> you've misunderstood the transhumanist meme complex then
22:05 < BaconPlasma> and more intellectual, less politically loaded
22:05 <@fenn> a major premise is that we are not expecting dwindling resources
22:06 < BaconPlasma> you dont appear to be
22:06 < BaconPlasma> otherwise, there's be a platform component to address it imo
22:07 < BaconPlasma> either 1) worldwide mandated population control by birth limits 2) paying people to exist, when there's no jobs, because automation 3) some dystopia where you address neither, and there's food riots because there's no jobs or money or economy
22:07 < BaconPlasma> imagine shutting off the economy of any urban area tomorrow, say via emp
22:07 < BaconPlasma> everyone lives on the ground floor then.
22:08 < BaconPlasma> and there's not enough water for everyone to drink.
22:08 <@fenn> marshall brain addresses point 2 in "manna" http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
22:09 <@fenn> i guess point 3 was "make room" but i haven't read it (the story soylent green comes from)
22:09 <@fenn> yes there is a risk that a few people end up with all the robots
22:09 <@fenn> as a society i wish we talked about this more
22:10 <@fenn> there's no real plan for how to redistribute the huge amounts of wealth generated by automation
22:10 < BaconPlasma> imo the TH agenda needs to take positions on all three
22:10 <@fenn> james albus proposes "peoples' capitalism" in which the US government invests in a sort of technology hedge fund and dividends are distributed to citizens
22:11 < BaconPlasma> you can't just go into african villages and make people immortal with tech
22:11 < BaconPlasma> that would be so goddamn irresponsible
22:11 < BaconPlasma> imagine a Joseph Kony living a thousand years
22:11 < BaconPlasma> or a Joseph Stalin for that matter
22:11 < ebowden> Couldn't you just shoot them?
22:12 <@fenn> these people would have no power without resource scarcity driving their political platform
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22:13 <@fenn> actually i dont know much about kony
22:15 < BaconPlasma> transhumanism increases the resource scarcity curve
22:15 < BaconPlasma> even if population levels off
22:15 < BaconPlasma> minerals are becoming harder to extract
22:15 < BaconPlasma> the plastic blob in the ocean is bigger than texas
22:16 < BaconPlasma> and we're causing the sixth mass extinction.
22:16 < BaconPlasma> shit's already going downhill man, due to pure numbers
22:16 < BaconPlasma> methane clathrates are a huge tipping point in AGW
22:16 < BaconPlasma> those thaw, we get boiled
22:16 <@fenn> re mineral "scarcity" http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/economics.html
22:19 <@fenn> i agree that climate change is a huge threat to civilization
22:20 <@fenn> we need to start building shitloads of nuclear reactors as soon as possible
22:20 <@fenn> this doesn't seem to be happening
22:20 < ebowden> I'm curious though, how would Donald Trump reduce access to birth control in the Third World?
22:20 < BaconPlasma> ebowden are you unfamiliar with conservative ideology?
22:21 < BaconPlasma> the US funds lots of overseas birth control
22:21 <@fenn> the US government?
22:21 < ebowden> Oh, the idea is he would defund it.
22:22 <@fenn> i must be missing something, since when is donald trump anti-birth-control?
22:23 < BaconPlasma> https://rewire.news/article/2015/05/22/gop-introduces-sham-birth-control-access-bill/
22:23 < BaconPlasma> https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/blog/gop-budget-would-completely-eliminate-us-family-planning-program-and-cut-almost-all-sex-ed-funding-were-fight
22:23 < BaconPlasma> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/zika-birth-control-funding_us_577d4ef1e4b01edea78c2871
22:24 < BaconPlasma> The USG has a long history of engagement in international family planning and population issues, and today, the USG is one of the largest purchasers and distributors of contraceptives internationally and is the largest donor to global FP/RH efforts.
22:26 < BaconPlasma> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/gop-plans-to-defund-planned-parenthood-231905
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22:33 <@fenn> this is a pretty cool map https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Population_density_with_key.png
22:35 <@fenn> i saw a tv show once where they drove bulldozers around in desertified areas and then came back each year to see what had happened
22:36 < ebowden> What happened?
22:36 <@fenn> the bulldozer tracks made little impressions in which wind borne seeds and dew collected, and grass sprouted, which attracted insects and more seeds and then shrubs started growing and even small trees
22:37 <@fenn> i guess this was it http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change
22:38 < ebowden> Why isn't it being done on an enormous scale?
22:39 <@fenn> because people are arguing about gay marriage or whatever instead
22:39 <@fenn> because nobody cares
22:40 < ebowden> Greenies do. Read up, learn about the logistics of it, find a suitable area and do a kickstarter to bulldoze it.
22:42 < BaconPlasma> another obvious component is animals
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