--- Log opened Thu Jan 12 00:00:03 2017
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03:51 < chris_99> Hi, i'm just wondering, is there a technical name for gloves with sleeves, googling with that, i can't find many
03:51 < chris_99> (i mean latex/nitrile style ones)
04:08 < cluckj> elbow-length?
04:22 < chris_99> i'll try that cheers
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04:31 < chris_99> that did the trick
04:31 < chris_99> thanks
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05:27 < kanzure> what the hell is an elbow
05:45 < darsie> In primates,[1] including humans, the elbow joint is the synovial hinge joint[2] between the humerus in the upper arm and the radius and ulna in the forearm which allows the hand to be moved towards and away from the body.
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06:41 < kanzure> sounds made up
06:49 < cluckj> everything is made up
06:50 < cluckj> you sound made up
06:55 < kanzure> them's fighting words
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07:12 < cluckj> cyborg duel time
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10:00 < TMA> interesting nonorthogonality - an elbow length is a cubit, yet cubit gloves yield worse search results
10:00 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13383006
10:00 < yoleaux> On the Impending Crypto Monoculture (2016) | Hacker News
10:00 < kanzure> (now with commentary)
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10:06 < chris_99> TMA, heh
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10:16 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/donnayoungdc/status/819571638446518272
10:16 < yoleaux> .@SeanSpicer: Trump meeting w/ #FDA contenders Jim O'Neill & Balaji Srinivasan (@DonnaYoungDC)
10:16 < kanzure> balaji to FDA (we want o'neill)
10:20 < kanzure> although balaji would do acceptably crazy things, i'm sure
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13:57 < kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/603217/one-mans-quest-to-hack-his-own-genes/
13:58 < kanzure> " It seems that somebody injected himself with plasmid DNA and electroporated it then. His goal was to express human growth hormone,  to increase his muscle mass (body size will not affected after age 25 obviously)."
13:59 < kanzure> from https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/k3tisuCCbL4/pVnYZvDUAAAJ ("Brian Hanley's garage gene therapy")
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14:00 < kanzure> gene therapy company https://bf-sci.com/
14:00 < kanzure> "butterfly sciences"
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14:00 < kanzure> "Hanley's undertaking has caught the attention of big-league scientists. His blood is now being studied by researchers at Harvard University at the laboratory of George Church, the renowned genomics expert. Church, who provided MIT Technology Review with an introduction to Hanley, says he knows of a handful of other cases of do-it-yourself gene therapy as well. "And there are probably a lo...
14:00 < kanzure> ...t more," he says, although no one is quite sure, since regulators have not signed off on the experiments. "This is a completely free-form exercise.""
14:01 < kanzure> "Parrish briefly worked for Hanley, whom she knew from anti-aging meetings. At least one additional person who underwent self-administered gene therapy is a U.S. biotech executive who did not want his experience publicly known because he is dealing with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on other matters." oh okay. they know each other.
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14:04 < JayDugger> Heh.
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14:13 < kanzure> snake venom "hyper-immunity project" https://bf-sci.com/?page_id=44
14:13 < kanzure> also stalk: enoch baldwin, albert van geelen
14:15 < kanzure> hah "He says that's not a problem, because he knows the risks so well after working on the idea for so long. "I am informed consent personified," he says. "There is no one in the world more informed than me.""
14:15 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ^
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14:35 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/balajis/status/758496738260811777
14:35 < yoleaux> Transhumanism is technology's ultimate destination. The question is how much power we will need to get there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/05/18/in-defense-of-transhumanism/ (@balajis)
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14:52 < kanzure> tampor resistance tool thing https://www.raptorengineering.com/TALOS/documentation/flexver_intro.pdf
14:52 < kanzure> er, tamper
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16:56 < kanzure> .wik polyadenylation
16:56 < yoleaux> "Polyadenylation is the addition of a poly(A) tail to a messenger RNA. The poly(A) tail consists of multiple adenosine monophosphates; in other words, it is a stretch of RNA that has only adenine bases. In eukaryotes, polyadenylation is part of the process that produces mature messenger RNA (mRNA) for translation." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyadenylation
17:10 < kanzure> how is that human growth hormone plasmid supposed to work? muscle isn't going to secrete HGH...
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18:31 < kanzure> .wik orexin
18:31 < yoleaux> "Orexin, also called hypocretin, is a neuropeptide that regulates arousal, wakefulness, and appetite. The most common form of narcolepsy, in which the sufferer briefly loses muscle tone (cataplexy), is caused by a lack of orexin in the brain due to destruction of the cells that produce it." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orexin
18:31 < kanzure> yashgaroth: so what's up with the HGH in myocytes thing.. just wants those specific cells to get big?
18:36 < yashgaroth> it's a circulating hormone so it should be similar to just injecting HGH, or GHRH in his case, assuming you're referring to the dude shooting plasmids into his leg
18:36 < kanzure> but it's not going to get secreted, is it?
18:36 < kanzure> what's in the plasmid, just HGH? or secretion components too?
18:37 < yashgaroth> growth hormone releasing hormone, functionally it's HGH though I'm sure he has the secretion tag on it as well since it doesn't work if it's intracellular
18:37 < yashgaroth> you'd probably see more activity local to the injection site, that is if it actually produced a significant amount of protein which it won't
18:37 < kanzure> intracellular growth hormone wouldn't effect the cell?
18:37 < kanzure> are we sure it's the releasing hormone variant ?
18:37 < yashgaroth> I recall seeing it in the article or his "patent"
18:38 < yashgaroth> it won't affect the cell since it only hits cell-surface receptors, I don't think it'd even fold correctly if it was translated in the cytoplasm
18:40 < yashgaroth> he'd have to be specifically deleting the protein's native secretory signal to make it intracellular, and it's got several disulfide bonds that wouldn't form there
18:41 < kanzure> oh is HGH a surface receptor thing?
18:41 < kanzure> also, i didn't know that the protein has its own secretion signaling stuff. must be stuff in addition to poly(A) tails?
18:42 < yashgaroth> yeah it interacts with surface receptors as a circulating hormone; any secreted hormone/protein will have its own N-terminal peptide tag that directs it to the endoplasmic reticulum for secretion
18:43 < yashgaroth> the polyA is on most all genes
18:44 < yashgaroth> anyway it's similar to what I was planning to do, before realizing that the recombinant gene expression is so low as to be useless
18:44 < yashgaroth> he's using a fairly standard plasmid-based gene expression cassette
18:45 < kanzure> maybe he tacked on a bunch of wacky overexpression stuff
18:45 < yashgaroth> he'd win a fucking nobel for that
18:45 < kanzure> we're bad at overexpression?
18:46 < yashgaroth> the problem is more in plasmid delivery to the nucleus of enough cells, we have all the overpowered viral promoters at our disposal so that's not really an issue
18:47 < yashgaroth> his "preferred embodiment" is a muscle-specific promoter, the one for myosin, which is gonna be much crappier than e.g. a CMV promoter since it's not tuned for viral-level overexpression
18:49 < yashgaroth> but by far the limiting factor in humans and other large mammals is forcing the plasmid into the nucleus, since each step (plasmid association with membrane, electrophoresis across membrane, lysosomal escape and avoiding nuclease digestion, transit to the nucleus) is very low efficiency
18:50 < yashgaroth> hence why we use viruses since that have all that shit worked out; then your limiting factors are cost and immunogenicity instead
18:50 < yashgaroth> they have*
18:53 < kanzure> er, what are you currently planning to do instead?
18:53 < yashgaroth> drinking
18:54 < kanzure> i'm somehow less interested in funding that :P
18:54 < yashgaroth> or producing the protein recombinantly and injecting it, while waiting for the transgenic tech to get better
18:54 < kanzure> got any interest in working for virusperson on virus things?
18:55 < kanzure> his plan has changed slightly from only dog cancer to dog cancer but also dog as gene therapy target platform
18:56 < yashgaroth> ya ok
18:58 < yashgaroth> I've been looking into irisin since it's pretty easy/cheap to make, just a question of whether the thing actually works...there's a whole cloud of controvery about its function
18:58 < kanzure> so i guess dog gene therapy app store or something... dunno. i don't really want dogs with better memory, i want people with better memory.
18:58 < yashgaroth> you know what kind of viruses he's using?
18:59 < kanzure> oncolytic
18:59 < yashgaroth> I mean species but that does narrow it down quite a bit
18:59 < kanzure> i thin it was dog oncolytic viruses :P
18:59 < kanzure> i don't know a specific one yet
18:59 < yashgaroth> of the virus I mean, but ok
19:01 < kanzure> yashgaroth: CAV-2 virus
19:01 < yashgaroth> ahh adenovirus
19:02 < kanzure> "CAV-2 -- why a canine virus is a neurobiologist's best friend" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1471489215000971
19:03 < yashgaroth> is he doing this as a cover for developing brain gene therapy in humans? because I really can't care about dog cancer too much
19:03 < kanzure> "An Update on Canine Adenovirus Type 2 and Its Vectors" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3185752/ (2010)
19:03 < kanzure> yeah i don't care about dog cancer either. no it's not a cover :(.
19:03 < yashgaroth> dang
19:03 < kanzure> yeah.... something about it being too risky or dagrous.
19:03 < kanzure> dangerous
19:04 < kanzure> which isn't really a good excuse in my opinion
19:04 < yashgaroth> pah, what's the point of doing something if it's not risky or dangerous
19:04 < kanzure> oh actually the excuse was something about regulations. but with balaji in charge of the FDA maybe that would change.
19:06 < yashgaroth> is a bitcoin startup founder really in the running for head of the FDA? 2016 ain't got shit on this year
19:06 < kanzure> he used to do non-bitcoin things
19:07 < yashgaroth> oh devbio, ok
19:11 < kanzure> yashgaroth: for human gene therapy i think you could target maybe the educational market in asian countries (the ones with helicopter parents), promise them better memory and less sleep
19:13 < yashgaroth> true, from what I've heard their regulatory apparatus is quite amenable
19:13 < kanzure> or indian market i guess.
19:14 < kanzure> "is your kid not pressured enough? not near enough to a total breakdown? well here's a solution."
19:14 < yashgaroth> that whole megaregion has a proud tradition of cram schools yes
19:14 < kanzure> for anti-sleep stuff i think there's one too many CLOCK genes to look at, it's a little confusing as to whether a different therapy owuld be required for each combination of CLOCK-related alleles
19:16 < yashgaroth> changing the payload of a virus isn't the most painful thing, though it depends on your production method
19:17 < kanzure> yes probably need a general virus fabrication facility
19:18 < yashgaroth> I mean, who doesn't need one of those
19:19 < kanzure> isn't it mostly dna synthesis
19:19 < yashgaroth> about half cell culture, half purification
19:19 < kanzure> what cells do you need
19:20 < yashgaroth> usually mammalian for most viruses, AAV you can do in insect cells but the rest are usually like 293 or HeLa or similar
19:20 < kanzure> ugh
19:21 < kanzure> fuck that
19:21 < yashgaroth> yeah it sucks, and there's not really much concrete info on it since there's so few gene therapies in production, much less at scale
19:21 < yashgaroth> even glybera apparently only had like one patient treated
19:22 < yashgaroth> idk what happened with that AAVp53 anti-cancer therapy in china, maybe they're scaled up; but I doubt it
19:24 < kanzure> i guess i'll look into virus production scale-up stuff
19:25 < kanzure> maybe a liquid mammalian cell bioreactor wouldn't be so bad
19:25 < kanzure> you could have gradients based on expected infection status, so that you have a renewing source of fresh cells
19:26 < yashgaroth> I looked into it for bioviva, there's lots of theories out there; generally batch processes are still more cost-effective than continuous ones, though continuous is far more elegant if you can get it working
19:27 < kanzure> cost-effective because the continuous ones aren't big enough yet ?
19:28 < yashgaroth> because they're more of a pain in the ass than just infecting one batch of cells at a time, but that too
19:28 < kanzure> pain-in-the-ass is supposed to be reduced with continuous, maybe they are just poorly designed so far?
19:29 < yashgaroth> generally you're growing up a train of ever-larger bioreactors for your host cells and your seed-virus-producing cells, so there's not much savings with continuous since you have those both running anyway
19:30 < yashgaroth> either way, each virus has a host cell, and each host cell needs a certain amount of time and food to produce the virus regardless of the style of process
19:30 < kanzure> my problem was the human intervention step
19:30 < kanzure> way better if humans are out of the process entirely
19:31 < kanzure> batch can be automated anyway, w/e
19:31 < yashgaroth> yeah pretty much, humans are only strictly needed for loading centrifuges; once they figure that out I'm fucked
19:32 < kanzure> what, for balancing ?
19:33 < yashgaroth> just sticking the tubes in the holes, taking them out afterwards...it's at an angle you see, robots are bad with angles I hope
19:34 < yashgaroth> look if we're not even good for loading centrifuges then all we have left is accidentally dropping flasks of virus on the ground, and that doesn't pay well
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19:44 < kanzure> hm.
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 13 00:00:04 2017