--- Log opened Tue Feb 21 00:00:39 2017
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01:21 < maaku> cluckj: maybe he didn't understand what he was signing
01:23 < maaku> .tell eb3c90 I have no interest in discussiong shoulds our oughts here, but I do think something like your manifesto should exist. There needs to be a pro-human-augmentation movement with a good PR and lobying organization.
01:23 < yoleaux> maaku: I'll pass your message to eb3c90.
01:24 < maaku> .tell eb3c90 it does need some work though. It's a little short and incoherent at the moment.
01:24 < yoleaux> maaku: I'll pass your message to eb3c90.
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03:16 < chris_99> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2029950924/holovect-holographic-vector-display/ assuming that's not fake, i'm curious how it's modifying the air
03:17 < chris_99> maybe it's just spraying an aerosol
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04:36 < chris_99> could you alternatively modify the refractive index of air using heat alone, to create something like a mirage, is that even possible?
04:52 < poppingtonic> If you can localize it, I suppose. It seems like they've gone quiet now.
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04:56 < chris_99> mm
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05:02 < chris_99> "the variation between the hot air at the surface of the road and the denser cool air above it creates a gradient in the refractive index of the air." - so if i have two hair dryers , one hot, one cold i wonder if that'd work..
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05:56 < kanzure> blorp
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05:59 < adlai> slurp
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06:18 < adlai> .tell eb3c90 i think you do yourself a big disservice [in the manifesto] by assuming basic income and automated labor. why not make the starting point be the present, rather than some hypothetical future?
06:18 < yoleaux> adlai: I'll pass your message to eb3c90.
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07:00 < chris_99> oh i just found https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3vnw17/holovect_volumetric_display_real_3d_projections/ he says they modify humidity
07:05 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13694216
07:05 < yoleaux> Gwern's Take on "Story of Your Life" | Hacker News
07:05 < adlai> .title https://www.gwern.net/Story%20Of%20Your%20Life
07:05 < yoleaux> 'Story Of Your Life' Is Not A Time-Travel Story - Gwern.net
07:07 < adlai> is Arrival worth watching? a friend of mine raves about it and wants even to see it again, not sure if i want to risk disappointment... i found the story quite poignant
07:14 < kanzure> haven't seen it
07:15 < kanzure> ted chiang has been mentioned in here a number of times, it's interesting that he got himself a movie
07:15 < kanzure> where's the greg egan movie, damn it?
07:15  * adlai only knows of him thanks to this place
07:16 < kanzure> maybe they will do a movie about the human genome project, that might be fun to watch
07:16 < adlai> for a while i wanted to make an epic movie series out of Requiem for Homo Sapiens. it would be ~5 movies since Broken God breaks eponymously in two, and you do need to do Neverness as well, preferably just as the first movie rather than a hobbit-style shitshow
07:18 < adlai> btw, kanzure, you complained in milan that zindell relies on ftl travel... i'm not sure that's exactly a valid complaint.
07:18 < kanzure> go on
07:19 < adlai> the lightships (and iviomils) achieve translation outside their lightcones through spacetime manipulation, or in popspeak, "they open wormholes"
07:19 < kanzure> ah well i would also complain about wormholes too
07:19 < adlai> so it's not ~technically~ accelerating stuff to ftl speeds
07:19 < kanzure> would it be too unrealistic to do relativistic travel?
07:20 < kanzure> spending a few thousand years in travel seems more dramatic, right?
07:21 < adlai> hmmm. you could have danlo do all his travels at near-lightspeed, and return to find a very similar hanuman to the one he finds in the books, who has either completed his uploading plan, or extended his life like some of other characters in those books have
07:21  * adlai tries not to spoil too badly
07:22 < adlai> so that would preserve the element of their relationship picking up in book 3 where it left off in book 1
07:22 < adlai> but tamara, as always, is tricky
07:22 < kanzure> you could also give him some sort of buggy uploading result that causes him to hallucinate danlo as a pesky devil's advocate if you need something for hanu to do for a few thousand years
07:23 < adlai> i think you can actually draw out what hanu does in a normal human lifetime, into millenia
07:24 < adlai> instead of ringism being like scientology, it's the catholic church - with a single pope
07:25 < adlai> or maybe a better analogy is that it'd be like all of christianity, with the hanu-pope being a direct continuation from paul
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07:26 < adlai> and hanu can spend an indefinite amount of time gardening his simulations
07:26 < adlai> i actually think Neverness is a lot trickier to fix in this manner.
07:27 < adlai> it has a more tangled interaction between pilots going places and coming back while icefall chronology proceeds at the same rate
07:27 < adlai> the main trilogy really only has a single drawn out voyage in the middle
07:31 < adlai> possibly of interest to folks here - apparently Kary Mullis's entire autobiography is at https://archive.org/details/DancingNakedInTheMindField-PDF
07:32 < adlai> this being the "I wouldn't have discovered PCR without LSD" fellow
07:34 < kanzure> hgp-write pilot project proposal form http://engineeringbiologycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Pilot-Project-Proposal-Form.pdf
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07:53 < kanzure> "In vivo high-throughput profiling of CRISPR-Cpf1 activity" http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v14/n2/full/nmeth.4104.html
07:54 < kanzure> "Naturally occurring off-switches for CRISPR-Cas9" http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674%2816%2931589-6
07:55 < kanzure> "Patterns of shared signatures of recent positive selection across human populations" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/02/17/109371
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07:55 < kanzure> stuff about crispr licensing http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6326/698.full
07:56 < kanzure> "Influence of donor age on induced pluripotent stem cells" http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v35/n1/full/nbt.3749.html
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08:49 < bluebear_> kanzure: thanks a lot for the articles! (pity I don't have the money for prepaying Cell...)
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09:19 < kanzure> "Programmable genome editing tools and their regulation for efficient genome engineering" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2001037016300770
09:23 < kanzure> ( http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/02/crispr-gene-editing-is-undergoing-rapid.html )
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09:29 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: Josiah said he's gonna "hook [me] up big time" :)
09:30 < kanzure> "In vivo genome editing with a small Cas9 orthologue derived from Campylobacter jejuni" http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14500
09:31 < kanzure> (cjcas9)
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09:41 < bluebear_> kanzure: wow
09:42 < bluebear_> kanzure: in vivo, and it really does mostly what it should! almost incredible
09:44 < kanzure> bluebear_: you can buy a kit http://www.the-odin.com/diy-bacterial-gene-engineering-crispr-kit/
09:44 < bluebear_> oh wow
09:44 < bluebear_> but I'm afraid it would not pass through the borders here in Czechia :'(
09:45 < mz_o> are such things regulated there bluebear_?
09:45 < bluebear_> but it's ultracool that in more developed countries, people can freely experiment; that's what brings small, useful scientific improvements and simplifications
09:46 < bluebear_> mz_o: not 100% sure; will ask my colleagues; maybe on bacteria it might be allowed
09:47 < mz_o> eh in developed countries they can more easily regulate and say "no" to whomever
09:48 < mz_o> whereas in lesser developed countries its all about who you know and how much money you have
09:53 < bluebear_> mz_o: very true, but you still need the bribe money :-)
09:59 < mz_o> money is a universal roadblock ;)
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10:01 < bluebear_> in fact, I did not even know that the technology is already so advanced that CRISPR kits can be produced in mass amounts; I thought it's still high-tech laboratory only
10:03 < mz_o> that listing on the-odin had been there for at least a year
10:04 < mz_o> and i think itdna had offered higher-level crispr stuffs around the same time
10:04 < kanzure> and NEB kits etc. and addgene's plasmid.
10:04 < mz_o> im glad its available outside of labs!!
10:04 < mz_o> yea exactly
10:06 < mz_o> i guess if it was a runner up for a nobel prize it gets distributed more lol
10:09 < bluebear_> well, so directly it's not possible in Czechia :-(
10:09 < bluebear_> just for my info... is this allowed in USA? or in any countries you (anyone of you :-) ) live?
10:10 < mz_o> eh as far as i know theres no regulation against it yet
10:10 < mz_o> but i dont know much :P
10:11 < mz_o> calling kanzure
10:14 < bluebear_> hmmmm... it seems it comes from the European Union
10:14 < bluebear_> (the ban)
10:15 < bluebear_> you need a Certified Laboratory(tm)
10:15 < bluebear_> which, of course, again trickles down to $$$, just very much $$$$$
10:19 < kanzure> i don't want to talk about regulation
10:19 < kanzure> i have enough regulation at $dayjob
10:22 < mz_o> booo
10:22 < mz_o> regulate regulation
10:23 < bluebear_> kanzure: I understand you fully
10:23 < bluebear_> but just the plain fact that the technology is already so cheap is refreshing, and brings some hope :-)
10:25 < mz_o> technology is so cheap its sickening everything else is expensive
10:35 < maaku> bluebear_: I am not a lawyer, but for the most part you get in trouble in the USA when you try to sell things
10:35 < maaku> drugs being the exception, gene editing tools and such shouldn't fall under that
10:37 < kanzure> maaku: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/ultra-safe-cell-line/
10:38 < bluebear_> maaku: well, that's a little bit more understandable than a complete ban as in EU
10:41 < nmz787_w1> I just ordered from the-odin yesterday, in USA... have ordered biotech stuff to my house before. Mostly Govt only cares that you aren't a fire or health hazard, which is a zoning law (unless you're working with/on restricted chems)
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10:44 < mz_o> dea is the only one that cares about restricted chems
10:44 < mz_o> but i forgot about zoning. shouldnt be a problem for most though
10:45 < mz_o> its all about how you word it to the zoning dept ;)
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10:47 < mz_o> and biotech regulation will be discussed and implemented when there are a few shellshock stories. companies dont really want breakthroughs to happen in a garage
10:47 < mz_o> or by some nonprofit
10:48 < kanzure> "a few"? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news
10:50 < mz_o> i wouldnt say those are shocking
10:52 < mz_o> im talking about the extreme. someone does something really good or bad
10:53 < mz_o> not some speculative article that will only appeal to the niche
10:55 < nmz787_w1> mz_o: actually it's more like what the fire department thinks if they ever get called to your house for a fire... and what the paramedics think when they come to your house for some other not-necessarily-related incident
10:57 < nmz787_w1> mz_o: you don't ever need to report to zoning, unless you were applying for a business license, which many companies require for them to agree to send you supplies... or were otherwise being proactive on your relationship with local law
10:58 < nmz787_w1> which you'd only do if you were trying to setup a small business, where you'd also be applying for a license probably, or if you were setting up some community lab, etc
11:39 < nmz787_w1> huh, gmail removes period characters from the email-preview/list view (in an email typing U.S.A. would be seen as USA)
11:39 < chris_99> odd
11:44 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: also, Josiah said he could send some isolated plasmid, so I can pretty much get right to testing the electroporator (I have an ebay commercial one too, to test alongside, though I don't know if it works)
11:45 < chris_99> cool, have you made your own electroporator?
11:47 < kanzure> chris_99: https://github.com/kanzure/culture_shock
11:47 < chris_99> neat!
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12:07 < nmz787_w1> chris_99: did brexit happen?
12:07 < kanzure> cough
12:08 < kanzure> let's not?
12:08 < chris_99> they can trigger it apparently after the parliament vote
12:08 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: let's not determine feasibility for experiments?
12:09 < nmz787_w1> chris_99: just wondering if it would mean the EU biohacker laws no longer would apply, if it goes through
12:09 < chris_99>  EU biohacker laws? does that prohibit you doing certain things
12:10 < nmz787_w1> apparently you need some biotech license that is not easy, to even play with stuff (without potential legal repercussion), let alone order it
12:10 < nmz787_w1> not easy to get*
12:10 < chris_99> oh weird
12:11 < nmz787_w1> seems like leaving the EU would mean leaving their laws... but idk much past the evening news
12:12 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: you can suggest a better topic ;)
12:13 < nmz787_w1> whatever takes me away from these endless compiler errors :(
12:13 < chris_99> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-02/949952869.Ph.r.html while browsing for random stuff about mirages i found this, apparently the laser light moves slowly upward/downward according to that, i thought with a mirage you could also reflect light off it, but i guess probably not now
12:14 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: actually, I wanted to ask if you've seen anything on differences in refractive index for nucleotides
12:15 < kanzure> all i have is http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/
12:16 < nmz787_w1> chris_99: actually your link isn't much different than what I was thinking re ssDNA monomer refractive index... that it might be useful to detect presence of DNA in a nanochannel somehow (i.e. laser/LED on one side of the channel, and have a detector array on the other side, which pixel(s) register might have a dependence on the molecule lensing/refracting in-between_
12:16 < nmz787_w1> )
12:17 < chris_99> re ssDNA i was reading something recently
12:17 < chris_99> where they used an AFM to 'read' it as far as i can understand
12:18 < chris_99> https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/34149#files-area
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12:20 < kanzure> chris_99: yes,
12:20 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/Progress%20in%20sequencing%20DNA%20with%20an%20AFM.pdf
12:20 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/Atomic-scale%20imaging%20of%20DNA%20using%20scanning%20tunnelling%20microscopy%20-%201990.pdf
12:20 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/Molecular%20threading:%20Mechanical%20extraction,%20stretching%20and%20placement%20of%20DNA%20molecules%20from%20a%20liquid-air%20interface%20-%20Halcyon%20-%20Andregg%20-%20Marblestone%20-%20Church%20-%20Hamalainen%20-%20Kemmish%20-%202013.pdf
12:21 < kanzure> halcyon was doing transmission electron microscopy, i think. stuff in the logs at least.
12:22 < chris_99> so if you use an AFM would i be right in thinking once you've coated the tip, you don't need any expensive chemicals?
12:22 < nmz787_w1> kanzure: that last paper seems to not present any images/data obtained via AFM/STM
12:23 < kanzure> halcyon molecular was using the dna stretching technique in tandem with their electron microscopy DNA sequencing technique
12:29 < chris_99> out of interest nmz787_w1 for your laser thing, do you put it in a box, as i'd be worried about reflections
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12:36 < nmz787_w1> chris_99: the etcher?
12:37 < nmz787_w1> I just had a piece of cardboard in direct line-of-sight... and didn't worry about the diffuse reflections off my painted walls
12:37 < chris_99> yeah the etcher, ah cool
12:37 < nmz787_w1> I seem to recall when I was working with it heavily, I might have just added random papers/cardboard around the sides as I discovered annoyances
12:38 < nmz787_w1> it was also elevated a few feet about my head while I was sitting, so that might have helped keep it higher than my eyes
12:38 < nmz787_w1> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987677/
12:38 < yoleaux> Label-free detection of real-time DNA amplification using a nanofluidic diffraction grating
12:39 < nmz787_w1> "Since our developed system allows quantification of the initial concentration of amplified DNA molecules ranging from 1 fM to 1 pM, we expect that it will offer a new strategy for developing fundamental techniques of medical applications."
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12:45 < nmz787_w1> hmm, someone in Santa (Cruz?) is giving away one of these: https://www.mtm.kuleuven.be/equipment/ARL-SEM/ARL-SEM
12:45 < nmz787_w1> if only it was half the size and closer
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13:17 < kanzure> ""The machine is 26 feet in diameter, about 400 feet long, weighs 1,200 tons, and is nicknamed Nannie. It's been used by Washington's water utility to dig a tunnel to prevent sewage from overflowing into the Anacostia River. New machines normally cost at least $15 million, but a decade of frantic subway construction in China has created a glut, and lightly used models can be had for 90 p...
13:17 < kanzure> ...ercent off sticker.""
13:18 < cluckj> so where are we going to get $1.5 million?
13:23 < kanzure> no, it's parked in elon musk's parking lot
13:23 < cluckj> we need a drill that can pierce the heavens
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14:13 < chris_99> 1.5kW co2 laser - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1jbxswJhGY looks pretty deadly
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16:40 < nmz787_w> whole day gone... accomplished almost nothing
16:40 < nmz787_w> this project sucks
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18:50 < kanzure> bloop
18:54 < cluckj> beep
19:38 < kanzure> "One-step optogenetics with multifunctional flexible polymer fibers" http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nn.4510.html
19:38 < kanzure> ( https://twitter.com/BenSaunders/status/833784908233441281 )
19:39 < kanzure> "Expanding the genetic code of Mus musculus" http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14568 ( https://twitter.com/rosscloney/status/834077736142512130 )
19:43 < kanzure> "Patterned cell and matrix dynamics in branching morphogenesis" http://jcb.rupress.org/content/early/2017/02/06/jcb.201610048?papetoc
19:43 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/JCellBiol/status/834117992225132545
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22:01 < nmz787_> https://phys.org/news/2017-02-breakthrough-chain-gold-atoms.html
22:01 < nmz787_> .title
22:01 < yoleaux> nmz787_: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
22:02 < nmz787_> "Breakthrough in understanding heat transport with a chain of gold atoms"
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 22 00:00:40 2017