--- Log opened Fri Feb 24 00:00:41 2017
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03:17 < wrldpcmbl> Ionaddis, 2005: http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124
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04:26 < streety> each univeristy setting up a transcriptic equivalent might be more costly than would be immediately obvious. At least in the UK the tax code is such that if something is bought, at least by a university, purely for research they don't need to pay tax. If it will be used for teaching or commercial purposes they do. Utilizing any idle equipment may require paying the tax they avoided during the initial purchase
04:28 < streety> That applies to not only equipment but also buildings. The university I was at had built two buildings at a new site. One they paid tax on and they other they had not. I was in the tax-free building so any classes we had resulted in us walking over to the other building.
04:28 < streety> it was really quite strict
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04:46 < streety> Does anyone remember the name of the website that attempted to calculate a dollar value for different open source projects? I remember seeing badges for it in the past but can't remember the name. Is it still going?
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05:00 < streety> https://www.openhub.net has a cost estimate
05:00 < streety> not the website I remember though, unless they have rebranded
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05:23 < chris_99> i was just reading about VX because of the DPRK, that sounds some scary shit, on the news they mentioned it's so difficult to make it'd likely be a nation state, is that correct out of interest
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05:31 < chris_99> oh wow, it was actually sold by ICI as a pesticide
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05:34 < bluebear_> well, neurotoxins make good pesticides :-) many old-time pesticides worked this way, using the fact that bugs have direct link between their central nervous system and sensory areas on their paws, so they got killed while humans have better isolation :-)
05:35 < chris_99> interesting
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05:39 < bluebear_> of course, even the oldtimer neurotoxic pesticide can still kill you if you inhale enough... :-( that's why they are generally deprecated if you can avoid them...
05:40 < chris_99> i assume you can't make a nerve gas that would work only on bugs
05:41 < bluebear_> I'm afraid you would have a hard time doing that; we are not that different; maybe if you found some metabolic pathway that exists in humans (but probably nowhere else) that blocks the effect or dismantles the compound before it can harm a human; but it would still be toxic to a wide category of other creatures
05:41 < bluebear_> in fact, tobacco does just that; nicotine is a neurotoxin for bugs that would attempt to eat the plant
05:41 < chris_99> mmm that's what i was thinking in the difference aspect
05:42 < chris_99> oh that's interesting wrt tabacco
05:42 < chris_99> though
05:42 < bluebear_> humans do not suffer its effects in normal way due to a change in a single amino acid somewhere in neural signaling genes
05:42 < bluebear_> so we get hyperfocused, more energetic, while the bugs die :-(
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05:44 < chris_99> so do they use nicotine as a spray
05:44 < chris_99> for pesticides
05:45 < TMA> chris_99: cigarette butts soaked in water are commonly recomended as a homemade insecticide
05:46 < chris_99> heh interesting
05:46 < chris_99> i guess now that vapour cigs are so popular
05:46 < chris_99> could use those
05:47 < TMA> chris_99: the advantage of cigarette butts is that those are free
05:47 < chris_99> true!
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05:48 < streety> I worked on a study a few years ago looking at the treatment of attempted suicide using organophosphate pesticides. The pesticides can have a high mortality, expecially if resources are limited, i.e. few ventilators available.
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05:49 < streety> But the formulation makes a massive difference. Changing from one solvent to another avoids the respiratory collapse that is so common.
05:49 < chris_99> i noticed for VX i think, wiki did mention an antidote i think
05:50 < streety> there is a big difference in the lethal dose for bugs and humans with the pesticides that are now used.
05:50 < chris_99> ahh
05:50 < streety> The suicides we were modeling were downing a large cup of concentrate
05:50 < chris_99> eek
05:51 < streety> yeah, it was an interesting experience
05:52 < streety> also looked briefly at the pharmacokinetics of the antidotes. Interest being the potential of large numbers of people needing rapid treatment from possibly medically poorly trained responders
05:53 < streety> i.e. soldiers trained in chemical warfare
05:53 < streety> I was only briefly involved in that side of the project though
05:53 < chris_99> theres actually an interesting documentary i watched
05:53 < chris_99> sec
05:54 < chris_99> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07hx40t
05:54 < chris_99> .title
05:54 < yoleaux> BBC Four - Inside Porton Down: Britain's Secret Weapons Research Facility
05:54 < chris_99> i'm not sure if it's on youtube or anything though
05:56 < streety> interesting, I may have to have a search around for it
05:56 < chris_99> it's not on iplayer anymore either alas
05:56 < streety> I was kind of surprised that some of the work we were being encouraged to do had not already been done directly by the military
05:56 < chris_99> ah it's on TPB
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06:34 < kanzure> 49u0v0qrvauofdia
06:34 < chris_99> indeed!
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07:04 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13719368
07:04 < yoleaux> Linus' reply on Git and SHA-1 collision | Hacker News
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07:52 < kanzure> .wik vx nerve agent
07:52 < yoleaux> "VX (IUPAC name: O-ethyl S-[2-(diisopropylamino)ethyl] methylphosphonothioate), an extremely toxic organophosphate, is a tasteless and odorless liquid with an amber-like color that severely disrupts the body's nervous system and is used as a nerve agent in chemical warfare. Ten milligrams (0.00035 oz) is sufficient for it to be fatal  ..." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_nerve_agent
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08:03 < kanzure> some links and things about 'high assurance cryptographic software' https://github.com/HACS-workshop/links
08:05 < kanzure> not to be confused with human artificial chromosomes
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08:43 < kanzure> sha512 stuff for git https://github.com/cgwalters/git-evtag
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09:26 < abetusk> http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6439/aa53ed
09:26 < abetusk> .title
09:26 < yoleaux> A truly Lego(R)-like modular microfluidics platform - IOPscience
09:27 < chris_99> haha
09:27 < chris_99> that looks very cool
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10:37 < fenn> pics or gtfo
10:38 < chris_99> it's on sci-hub it does look pretty lego-esque
10:38 < fenn> http://www.brickfanatics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/260117unicali.jpg
10:39 < fenn> color me unimpressed
10:39 < chris_99> it stacks like lego, it has to be clear i guess
10:39 < chris_99> i'm not sure what else they could do tbh
10:39 < fenn> something interesting?
10:39 < chris_99> heh
10:40 < fenn> the interface between bricks seems totally arbitrary
10:41 < chris_99> hmm, what do you mean, like it's not obvious which side of the brick actually connects to others
10:42 < fenn> some bricks connect in the center and others connect somewhere between the center and the side
10:42 < chris_99> ah gotcha
10:42 < fenn> but it's not obvious how to extend this
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11:16 < maaku> streety: interesting. the tax situation in north america is quite different
11:19 < chris_99> i was just looking at some used confocal microscopes, one was like $27k, and it seemed like it could resolve only to around 180nm, has anyone ever used one out of interest, i don't quite understand why they would be that expensive
11:26 < fenn> lots of moving parts and optics
11:27 < chris_99> yeah true, i didn't think of the accuracy of the stage etc. and i just realised, what i'm thinking of to get less than 180nm isn't a std. confocal microscope
11:27 < chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-resolution_microscopy just looking at
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12:38 < chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_electromagnet thought that's interesting, i was looking to see if anyone had DIY'd a small one
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17:39 < kanzure> blooooooop
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18:32 < maaku> beep
18:34 < kanzure> oh
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18:40 < C0MPAQ> why "Federal Death Administration"?
18:40 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/fda
18:41 < C0MPAQ> no, why "death" instead of "drug"
18:42 < kanzure> regulation increases the cost of equipment and drugs, which could otherwise go to anti-dying efforts
18:42 < C0MPAQ> wow, they want the monopoly on ultrasound also
18:42 < kanzure> although if we get balaji srinivasan to head the fda then maybe he'll endorse some anti-aging research or whatever
18:43 < C0MPAQ> how much for an ultrasound device?
18:44 < kanzure> C0MPAQ:
18:44 < kanzure> https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.10174
18:45 < C0MPAQ> yeah but I was hoping for a simple guesstimate
18:45 < kanzure> <$1k if you build it yourself, $20k if you buy it off the shelf
18:46 < kanzure> and $500-$5k if you buy used
18:46 < C0MPAQ> thanks!
18:46 < C0MPAQ> too pricey though
18:46 < C0MPAQ> I suppose you were setting up self-check points
18:46 < C0MPAQ> and that's what got banned
18:46 < kanzure> $7k if you buy this fancypants gizmo (ge healthcare vscan) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJCLrf_7kYw
18:48 < C0MPAQ> for all I know, all I have is a very weak type I diabetes autoimmune tendency and gallstones
18:50 < C0MPAQ> but the pancreas is doing a weird "blob" thing now about 20 each day ... I want to see what that is all about
18:50 < C0MPAQ> maybe a stone
18:50 < C0MPAQ> got caught
18:50 < kanzure> what
18:51 < C0MPAQ> organ sensations
18:51 < kanzure> why are you here
18:51 < C0MPAQ> came from #reddit-nootropics
18:51 < C0MPAQ> they say I talk too much off-topic
18:51 < kanzure> reddit users were banned back in 2009
18:51 < C0MPAQ> huh?
18:52 < C0MPAQ> who hasn't at least one reddit account?
18:52 < C0MPAQ> strange thing
18:52 < kanzure> people who get stuff done; anyone else should be banned.
18:52 < C0MPAQ> what do you mean by "get stuff done"?
18:52 < kanzure> in my experience, reddit users just spam this place up
18:53 < C0MPAQ> #reddit-nootropics consists of idlers
18:54 < C0MPAQ> if this isn't simply a general chat for named topics, I am somewhat puzzled as to what it is
18:54 < kanzure> C0MPAQ: you can read about us here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
18:54 < C0MPAQ> thanks
18:55 < C0MPAQ> sounds awesome
18:57 < C0MPAQ> your search function is not working
18:57 < C0MPAQ> on the wiki
18:57 < C0MPAQ> what bodybuilding technology are you developing?
18:57 < kanzure> blame jrayhawk
18:57  * C0MPAQ blames jrayhawk 
18:57 < kanzure> C0MPAQ: we have a method of injecting people with stupid recombinant proteins that do stupid things
18:58 < jrayhawk> oh, yeah, i should really just switch that to google search
18:58 < kanzure> C0MPAQ: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bodybuilding/
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18:59 < C0MPAQ> you are into upcoming AI wars secretly?
18:59 < kanzure> alright i'm gonna ban you
18:59 < C0MPAQ> pff
19:12 < cluckj> hah
19:12 < mz_o> lol hilarious
19:12 < cluckj> pancreases shouldn't go "blob"
19:15 < C0MPAQ> yeah, but tell that to a doctor ..
19:16 < cluckj> I'm sure there's a more technical term for it
19:16 < kanzure> unless your next message contains plans for speeding up the impending manufacture of grey goo, please consider leaving
19:17 < C0MPAQ> why such a ridiculous thing?
19:18 < kanzure> damn it
19:19 < kanzure> .wik grey goo
19:19 < yoleaux> "Grey goo (also spelled gray goo) is a hypothetical end-of-the-world scenario involving molecular nanotechnology in which out-of-control self-replicating robots consume all matter on Earth while building more of themselves, a scenario that has been called ecophagy ("eating the environment", more literally "eating the habitation")." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo
19:19 < kanzure> .wik utility fog
19:19 < yoleaux> "Utility fog (coined by Dr. John Storrs Hall in 1993) is a hypothetical collection of tiny robots that can replicate a physical structure. As such, it is a form of self-reconfiguring modular robotics." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog
19:19 < kanzure> .wik computronium
19:19 < yoleaux> "Computronium is a material hypothesized by Norman Margolus and Tommaso Toffoli of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology to be used as "programmable matter," a substrate for computer modeling of virtually any real object." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computronium
19:20 < C0MPAQ> come on, cells are the only viable nanomachine
19:20 < C0MPAQ> it doesn't take a genius to realize
19:22 < kanzure> C0MPAQ: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
19:26 < C0MPAQ> respectful channel, I will behave, good night
19:29 < kanzure> it is like a nice garden: don't shit all over it unless you want to be disemboweled
19:53 < jrayhawk> it feeds on blood
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 25 00:00:01 2017