--- Log opened Mon May 22 00:00:00 2017
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05:09 < kanzure> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-options-service-ledgerx-raises-11-4-million-series-b-funding/
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10:43 < archels_> so is bitcoin in the middle of bursting or what
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12:49 < archels_> <+crschmidt> video of the drone tracking me: this video does not include me touching the drone controls in any way (other than to turn on the 'pan mode' at the end) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv-QXmX-CpA
12:53 < chris_99> that's cool :) how does the drone follow him?
12:56 < thesnark> there are drones you can buy that have a transmitter to put in your pocket that the drone follows
12:56 < thesnark> I imagine it would be similar
12:58 < chris_99> ah hmm, how does that kind of thing work then, like how does it pin point the transmitter?
12:58 < thesnark> unsure
12:59 < thesnark> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMfTHHLbj5g
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13:11 < chris_99> can't watch atm because of lack of sound, but lily is the one that failed right?
13:18 < thesnark> business failure isn't technical failure
13:18 < thesnark> the concept is fine
13:19 < chris_99> oh yeah definitely
13:20 < thesnark> yeah it does look like something happened
13:20 < thesnark> I don't know what but yeah
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13:50 < kanzure> archels_: what do you mean bursting?
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14:29 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
14:30 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-q AlonzoTG!*@*] by kanzure
14:30 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure
14:32 < kanzure> /query AlonzoTG you have been unbanned from ##hplusroadmap you're welcome back.
14:35 < kanzure> 12:13 < AlonzoTG> Of course they are! They don't talk about it that much these days because it generates a backlash from people such as myself but the assumption underlying everything they do is that everyone will be uploaded very soon after the singularity.
14:35 < kanzure> 13:31 < AlonzoTG> What do you do when you are confronted by someone who is in the 98th percentile in terms of IQ and intellectual achievement comes to you and basically implies that he is working towards coercive uploading you, your cat, and everyone you know?
14:35 < kanzure> 13:34 < AlonzoTG> The uploaders are also generally extremely high-IQ people that it is difficult NOT to take what they say as a deadly serious threat.
14:35 < kanzure> 18:18 < AlonzoTG> No, I have concrete proof that there is a nucleus of hard-core uploaders who would rather see a few quadrillion tons of computronium in place of the Earth, of that I have proof.
14:45 < thesnark> what on earth...
14:45 < thesnark> "concrete proof"
14:46 < thesnark> is the concept of uploading that unpopular? I think a lot of people would want it if it were available
14:46 < thesnark> I can't imagine NOT wanting it
14:53 < kanzure> thesnark: honestly what do you think this channel is :P
14:55 < kanzure> 16:12 < kanzure> a lunatic (AlonzoTG) used to come around here who was absolutely terrified that i was going to copy his brain in his sleep and then torture a billion of his emulations for eternity
14:57 < cluckj> why would you waste the energy
14:57 < cluckj> when you could run a billion of your own emulators for eternity
14:57 < kanzure> oh, something about archiving obsession or something
14:58 < cluckj> zzzzz
14:58 < kanzure> "reconstruct the omega point and all preceding state data by harvesting as much entropy as possible and preserving it until it can be correctly analyzed"
14:58 < cevi_> the simulated torture idea always seemed dumb to me
14:59 < kanzure> do you guys really have this little faith in me? gosh
14:59 < cevi_> but I can understand (on an abstract level) the fear of one entity getting more power than everyone else combined
14:59 < thesnark> xD
15:00 < cevi_> AI risk people are afraid of an AI getting more power than all humans
15:00 < thesnark> *groans*
15:00 < cevi_> me, I'm afraid of Warren Buffett
15:01 < thesnark> The people who are afraid of machine learning are the ones who barely even have the capacity to understand it usually
15:01 < kanzure> they don't mean machine learning.
15:01 < thesnark> ah
15:01 < thesnark> well in that case, their fears are still not valid IMO
15:02 < kanzure> 10:38 < kanzure> re: unlimited-defense-first scenarios; 1) fails the reasonability test (can't have unlimited defense against unlimited threats), and 2) in absence of unlimited defense, an extremely low but still positive failure rate (failure as in, unfriendly ai takeoff) at best can postpone but cannot eliminate.
15:02 < kanzure> 10:38 < kanzure> actually the metaphysics around origins of unlimited-invulnerability are quite strange in this headspace (specifically, you can (supposedly) have unlimited-defense-first bootstrapping on its own but for some reason an unlimited-threat cannot still bootstrap itself? must not have been unlimited then, huh.)
15:02 < kanzure> 10:38 < kanzure> re: limited-defense-first scenarios: see again "can postpone but cannot eliminate" because unlimited-threat definition is stronger.
15:02 < kanzure> 10:43 < kanzure> re: "we should postpone as long as humanly possible, and we should get everyone to agree to this"- this is the same thing as the voluntary moratorium argument. and involuntarily moratorium (like through enforcement by unlimited-defense-first (friendly-and-is-first) ai) is rejected by the unlimited-defense-first counterargument above. ((often there have been arguments like "wel...
15:02 < kanzure> ...l you wont get friendliness right the first time when ...
15:03 < kanzure> 10:43 < kanzure> ... deploying it!!11one" but i have chosen not to bring that up because better to assume that both sides really do mean friendliness in the argument))
15:03 < kanzure> 09:50 < kanzure> there can't be unlimitedly-powerful unlimitedly-invulnerable defense to unlimitedly-powerful unlimitedly-invulnerable threats (otherwise it's nonsense because unlimited/invulnerable becomes meaningless).
15:03 < kanzure> from http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-12.log
15:04 < cevi_> the real solution is to just improve humans until it stops being physically plausible that a computer could be more than a billion times better
15:04 < kanzure> they don't actually care about computers vs humans, they are also opposed to transhumanism
15:04 < thesnark> kanzure: correct IMO
15:04 < kanzure> because their threat model is "any powerful intelligence" not just "powerful ai"
15:04 < thesnark> haha
15:05 < thesnark> this is not their time to be living :p
15:05 < kanzure> if singinst was more serious about their mission i think they would be busy trying to bomb me
15:05 < thesnark> let's assume they successfully bomb you
15:06 < thesnark> all the work you've done has been copied in many places
15:06 < thesnark> other people would carry on the work
15:06 < thesnark> too many people to stop it
15:06 < kanzure> nah there's a bunch of lazy people out there
15:07 < thesnark> it will be cool to see what transhumanist tech does for consciousness itself
15:07 < kanzure> i think that one of the scenarios-- where some powerful intelligence does cause some sort of mayhem that prevents the human species from continuing-- is not necessarily a bad outcome; if it causes total elimination of everything in the galaxy, that's probably pretty bad. but having an army of robots existing instead is significantly better than nothing.
15:08 < kanzure> i don't believe in consciousness.
15:08 < cluckj> bloop
15:08 < thesnark> kanzure: not even in a narrow sense? the biology of thinking individually and managing yourself,etc?
15:09 < kanzure> consciousness is something else more like qualia or whatever
15:09 < kanzure> or humoncuus
15:09 < kanzure> .. humonculus.
15:10 < thesnark> I know that there is an abstraction called "I" that I use to maintain survival I guess
15:10 < thesnark> "I" is also how I manage thoughts around my own continued existence
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15:11 < kanzure> that sounds more like a concept or thinking thing, not consciousness.
15:12 < thesnark> one of the most limiting things about being human is the incredibly small number of things we can be aware of at once. I'd like to see some change around that...if "I" becomes totally unncessary that would be even better
15:12 < thesnark> and obviously I know google and computers and all of that can help
15:12 < thesnark> they are good aids
15:12 < thesnark> but not the real thing
15:13 < kanzure> there is a known SNP that increases working memory performance by 19-24%
15:13 < kanzure> it's a mutation in WWC1
15:13  * thesnark copies
15:13 < thesnark> brb
15:13 < cevi_> if GP-write ever achieves its goal, then my guess is it'll only take another year before we get the first superintelligent baby, whether it is regulated or not
15:13 < kanzure> see http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
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15:14 < kanzure> cevi_: you don't need genome synthesis to do designer babies; only a handful of changes would be required.
15:15 < cevi_> that only brings the timeline forward
15:15 < kanzure> sure.
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15:15 < cevi_> so... in under twenty years, we're probably going to be overrun with an army of genius ten year olds
15:16 < cluckj> "genius"
15:18 < cevi_> well, I guess standards will change and they will just be considered "normal" at that point
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15:22 < cluckj> I just want de novo amino acid synthesis
15:22 < cevi_> the ten year olds will figure that out for you
15:23 < cluckj> :/
15:23 < kanzure> peptide synthesizers already exist, what are you talking about
15:23 < cluckj> I want them in my genes dude
15:24 < kanzure> oh you mean the prototrphy stuff
15:24 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/synthesizing-a-prototrophic-human-genome/
15:24 < cluckj> yes
15:24 < kanzure> shouldn't you be setting your sights on more modest goals, like the total elimination of diabetes
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15:25 < cluckj> I have a robot for that
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15:26 < cluckj> getting rid of a disease < eliminating AA deficiencies
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18:37 < kanzure> to slow down time, you only have to reduce the length of the day, right?
18:37 < kanzure> so large explosions at the pole should do the trick
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23:09 < kanzure> hmph
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--- Log closed Tue May 23 00:00:01 2017