--- Log opened Wed May 24 00:00:02 2017
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00:45 < nmz787_> "I have found organization and communication to be the largest hindrance to progress. A small group of people who speak the same technical lingo can make quick progress but once you have a large group with varying education backgrounds, we spend so much time laying out the basics that the more advanced folks get bored and disperse and the project quietly dies."
00:46  * nmz787_ done planning this FIB hauling for tonight
00:56 < fenn> remember, breaking a leg costs more than the machine
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04:34 < abetusk> nmz787_, where is that quote from?
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04:57 < kanzure> catern: in the logs maaku found an okay watch to record all audio. check the logs.
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07:14 < catern> that's another thing I need to do, get my existing logs in a more accessible state so I can more easily remember things like that... currently it's a bit of a pain to search them...
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07:14 < catern> I should make a keybinding to search the current logs
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07:20 < kanzure> catern: http://gnusha.org/logs/
07:20 < catern> yeah but I have my own logs
07:21 < catern> I should be able to access my own memory more easily than shared memory :)
07:36 < JayDugger> Interesting project, catern.
07:36 < JayDugger> Good luck with it.
07:37 < catern> I was inspired by re-reading the first bits of Accelerando, which reactivated my dream to be manfred macx
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07:55 < JayDugger> Doesn't he turn into a monkey?
07:57 < JayDugger> Kidding aside, I think capture will prove the easiest part of the problem.
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09:13 < kanzure> visionarymachine: hi.
09:13 < visionarymachine> hello
09:14 < visionarymachine> are you a bot?
09:14 < visionarymachine> :)
09:15 < kanzure> i ask myself that question every morning.
09:18 < cluckj> anyone want to crack the encryption on an insulin pump (to make it work with a DIY artificial pancreas)
09:18 < kanzure> can you dump the firmware?
09:19 < cluckj> a pro is working on that :/
09:19 < kanzure> sorta hard to break the encryption until that is done.
09:19 < cluckj> yeah :|
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10:05 < kanzure> "Easi-CRISPR: Efficient germline modification with long ssDNA donors" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/08/17/069963
10:06 < kanzure> similarly, http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/23/141424
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10:36 < nmz787_i> cluckj: can these pumps be found for reasonably cheap price? my gf might be interested in trying to get in, she does hardware security for a day job
10:38 < nmz787_i> fenn: definitely. I was thinking I would need to rent a forklift... but since I found a trailer that drops to the ground hydraulically, I am thinking now about using the seller's pallet jack and just winching the combination onto the (short) trailer ramp
10:40 < visionarymachine> anyone have any good soundcloud/music recommendations?
10:41 < thesnark> visionarymachine: nyan.cat
10:41 < visionarymachine> lol
10:41 < cluckj> nmz787_, they're incredibly expensive, but I think for this particular one there might be a stock of donated equipment for experimentation
10:44 < cluckj> there's also a "bounty" on breaking the encryption
10:44 < nmz787_i> she is looking for good defcon talk material
10:44 < cluckj> haha this is definitely that
10:45 < cluckj> this is the omnipod pump that was "hacked" at a defcon a few years ago
10:45 < nmz787_i> can you say the model #
10:45 < nmz787_i> oh, so what more is there to do?
10:45 < cluckj> iirc it was just a replay attack, nothing spectacular
10:45 < nmz787_i> hack it instead of "hack" it?
10:45 < nmz787_i> ah, mm
10:45 < cluckj> hack it for justice, really
10:46 < kanzure> haha medical equipment with a replay vulnerability <3
10:46 < cluckj> the insulin pumps that have been totally broken into are being used to create DIY artificial pancreases, but unfortunately those pumps are so old that they are no longer under warranty
10:47 < cluckj> nmz787_, https://github.com/openaps/openomni
10:47 < cluckj> their slack is https://omniaps.slack.com
10:47 < nmz787_i> lots of years come up when I search 'defcon insulin pump'... which refs to blackhat too
10:47 < cluckj> I think that literally the only thing they haven't broken is the encryption key
10:47 < cluckj> let me see if I can find it
10:49 < kanzure> maybe there's another vulnerability to skip the encryption anyway
10:50 < nmz787_i> well I think we already have the TI debugger, I think... unless the TI boards I have had onboard debuggers (which might be usable as standalone debuggers with a cable)
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10:50 < cluckj> nmz787_, http://sixuntilme.com/2011/08/hacked_jay_radcliffe_insulin_p.html
10:50 < cluckj> that dude
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10:58 < cluckj> I think all of the info has been figured out about 6 months ago, except the encryption
10:59 < thesnark> just want to say that the insulin pump was stunt hacking. hospitals have isolated equipment networks that are not connected to anything and have a special proxy/gateway to extract data
10:59 < thesnark> these isolated networks are typically completely read only
11:00 < thesnark> so if you're trying to talk to the pump your packets *will* be dropped
11:00 < cluckj> that particular insulin pump hack was a stunt, but based on those vulnerabilities there's now 300+ people running DIY closed-loop systems
11:03 < thesnark> that's fine. Just saying, people like to comment on the low security of medical devices. There is always room for improvement but it doesn't look as bad when you realize the environment they are meant to operate in
11:03 < kanzure> so what you're saying is that i'll have to ask you to upload malware to the hospital for me?
11:04 < cluckj> lol
11:04 < thesnark> right, you're going to need an exploit for a GE equipment router that conceals your device's/programs traffic completely
11:04 < cluckj> thesnark, there's another pump that's even more vulnerable in the "an attacker could kill you" way
11:04 < thesnark> medical record systems on the other hand
11:04 < thesnark> are like...very easy
11:05 < kanzure> blame juri_
11:06 < thesnark> Some big names don't even do security audits ;)
11:06 < cluckj> the omnipod is "pretty secure" because of this encryption, the other pump (which shall remain nameless) is a hot mess
11:07 < thesnark> cluckj: of course encryption is only as strong as its implementation :p
11:08 < thesnark> and the storage of keys
11:08  * visionarymachine cough 
11:08 < visionarymachine> default keys
11:08 < kanzure> asicboost got a CVE designation https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=+CVE-2017-9230
11:09 < cluckj> well yes?
11:10 < cluckj> this other pump can be compromised & an attacker can gain full control pretty trivially :\
11:10 < thesnark> gross
11:10 < cluckj> a bit, yeah
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11:11 < cluckj> but being able to get full control means DIY artificial pancreas, so it's pretty cool
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11:46 < chris_99> is the insulin pump thing wirelessly controllable
11:46 < chris_99> out of interest
11:46 < chris_99> (are those things embedded in the body)
11:46 < cluckj> yes
11:47 < chris_99> interesting
11:47 < cluckj> the pump isn't in the body, it's attached to a cannula that rests under the skin
11:47 < chris_99> ahh
11:48 < cluckj> for some pumps (omnipod, what I have) the "pump" is stuck onto the body and controlled remotely, others have a long tube that attaches to the pump
11:49 < chris_99> gotcha
11:49 < chris_99> what frequency, modulation does it use out of interest?
11:49 < chris_99> if that's known
11:49 < cluckj> depends on the pump
11:49 < cluckj> https://github.com/openaps/openomni/wiki/RF-Modulation
11:49 < chris_99> yeah, sorry i mean your one
11:50 < cluckj> ^ that's for the pump I have
11:50 < chris_99> ah cheers
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12:24 < nmz787_i> /me used a bioinformatics string alignment library for matching CPU registers after various tools mangle them
12:24 < nmz787_i> i R biohaxor
12:36 < nmz787_i> "We cannot let you use our pallet jack nor assist you in loading the unit due to liability issues. We have moved dozens of these systems in the past and we have never moved one without a qualified rigging company or fork lift. I must caution you based on experience that trying to move the main unit without the proper equipment is an accident waiting to happen and the potential for catastrophic damage to the system is very real. That being said, yo
12:36 < nmz787_i> can load and move it how you see fit."
12:37 < chris_99> is that the fib thing?
12:38 < kanzure> welp, how much do the riggers want?
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12:43 < nmz787_i> chris_99: yeah
12:43 < chris_99> cool, you getting it then
12:43 < nmz787_i> kanzure: they never replied to me, even after asking for quotes multiple times
12:43 < nmz787_i> posted it to uShip.com too
12:44 < nmz787_i> only one 'bidder' who didn't read my requirements
12:44 < nmz787_i> chris_99: yeah
12:44 < chris_99> nice
12:44 < kanzure> nmz787_i: search for riggers in san diego (or wherever it is)
12:45 < nmz787_i> plan at the moment is to rent an air-ride trailer (the seller said that was requirement for reducing road vibrations)... and either a forklift or just a pallet jack (since they said their pallet jack can 'struggle' to lift the item) and just winch the pallet jack up onto the trailer (since the trailer hydraulically drops to ground level)
12:45 < nmz787_i> kanzure: I'm kinda burned out on calling those places
12:45 < kanzure> also, offer them some god damn pizza too, you savage
12:46 < nmz787_i> kanzure: they all seem super cheap, or if they have the right equipment, don't reply to me
12:46 < nmz787_i> (super cheap meaning not qualified)
12:50 < kanzure> https://web.archive.org/web/20150907230432/http://www.documentroot.com/2014/08/gene-therapies-i-want-to-see-developed.html
12:51 < nmz787_i> guess we need to befriend some truckers
12:55 < kanzure> "I compiled that list over the years from various articles.   HAS2 should be particularly easy because it has a very distinct promoter region, injections are done in humans regularly, and it doesn't have to be targeted to an organ in order to have a cancer preventative effect."
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13:06 < nmz787_i> trailer, wood crate supplies, motel for night, fuel for driving, paying the truck owner and guy to help me crate, forklift rentals (there and here) are like $3k    :(
13:06 < nmz787_i> so getting rid of the forklift would cut out about $1k of that
13:06 < kanzure> i think you need the forklift.
13:25 < nmz787_i> the thing is, I read online that forklifts are called for when you need to retrieve/store something at a height (which I don't need, as long as a winch could get the pallet jack up onto the small centimeter or so rise on the trailer ramp lip) or when going over uneven terrain (maybe the workshop garage door to pavement/asphalt of the parking lot???)
13:25 < nmz787_i> I can certainly get the forklift, it's just more $ that could be nice to avoid
13:26 < chris_99> don't you need a forklift to get it into a van/truck etc though?
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13:57 < nmz787_i> chris_99: in this case, I have a trailer that hydraulically lowers itself to ground level... a grandma should be able to wheelchair herself up the small and short ramp with little trouble
13:58 < chris_99> ooh fancy
14:04 < nmz787_i> "I did misinterpret what you stated. There shouldn't be any issue pulling the main unit out of our back room into the parking lot, but I have never done it before. Like I said, whenever we bring something into our back room or have it removed we have always used riggers and forklifts."
14:05 < nmz787_i> idk, kind of seems like extension of academic dogma
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16:30 < kanzure> hmph
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19:46 < kanzure> "Highly efficient genome editing of human hematopoietic stem cells via a nano-silicon-blade delivery approach" http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2017/IB/C7IB00060J#!divAbstract
19:47 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/eboyden3/status/867453370562465793
19:47 < yoleaux> Hello Tomorrow panel "Enhancing humans: how far can/should we go?" w/@dagdevirencanan, Nathaniel David, and myself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rB63W4pN8Y&feature=youtu.be (@eboyden3)
19:48 < kanzure> warning: possible popsci content; abort this universe.
19:48 < kanzure> "Dynamic blue light-inducible T7 RNA polymerases (Opto-T7RNAPs) for precise spatiotemporal gene expression control" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/23/140871 https://twitter.com/biorxivpreprint/status/867108142911455234
19:49 < kanzure> "Here, we present our engineered blue light-responsive T7 RNA polymerases (Opto-T7RNAPs) that show properties such as low leakiness of gene expression in the dark-state, high expression strength when induced with blue light, or an inducible range of more than 300-fold. Following optimization of the system to reduce expression variability, we have created a variant, which returns to the inactiv...
19:49 < kanzure> ...e dark-state within minutes, once blue light is turned off. This allows for precise dynamic control of gene expression, which is a key aspect for most applications using optogenetic regulation."
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19:56 < kanzure> well at least someone bothered to do something optical, but that's not quite what we were aiming for..
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23:29 < nmz787_i> trucking quote magically came in within hours when the seller (finally) contacted a place they knew... $5k and doesn't include forklift to unload from their truck at my house (would be about $300-500 depending on if I had it delivered or a friend picked it up for me)
23:29 < nmz787_i> so I guess I'm still going down to CA tomorrow
23:30 < jcorgan> popcorn
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23:48 < nmz787_i> got a 'come-along' manual winch instead of an electric winch... will rent a 5500 lbs pallet jack tomorrow instead of the forklift... and just winch the loaded pallet jack onto the trailer, then build a crate around it
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--- Log closed Thu May 25 00:00:03 2017