--- Log opened Mon Jun 19 00:00:26 2017
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04:56 < kanzure> nmz787_: nice eye, i had missed that.
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05:02 < kanzure> nmz787_i: nice eye, i had missed that.
05:02 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/GeneMods/status/876122174595231745
05:02 < yoleaux> Wonder how much the sDNA prices on this chart have changed since 2014. How cheap are array-built genes? @srikosuri? https://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v11/n5/fig_tab/nmeth.2918_F1.html (@GeneMods)
05:02 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/srikosuri/status/876142992041558017
05:02 < yoleaux> @GeneMods About the same ($0.03-0.10/bp). At this point logistics and demand drive pricing more than oligo or process costs. (@srikosuri, in reply to tw:876122174595231745)
05:02 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/876772041474572288
05:02 < yoleaux> @srikosuri @GeneMods Oligo costs need to drop another 1000x. I want $1/genome synthesis. Relatedly, CC'd you on (H)GP-write tech workgroup email yesterday. (@kanzure, in reply to tw:876142992041558017)
05:04 < kanzure> https://www.genomeweb.com/business-news/twist-bioscience-raises-27m-venture-capital https://twitter.com/TwistBioscience/status/876103141703520256
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05:05 < kanzure> interplanetary mission instruments http://ipmdatabase.webnode.com/
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05:06 < kanzure> https://eos.org/meeting-reports/instrument-development-enables-planetary-exploration https://twitter.com/uFluidix/status/875020160494645248
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05:08 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/EricvdHelm/status/875553979031093248
05:08 < yoleaux> Nili Ostrov from the @geochurch lab praising yeast for its excellent DNA assembly properties, to synthesize recoded E. coli #sb7conf (@EricvdHelm)
05:08 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/ajfedorec/status/875551751218184192
05:08 < yoleaux> removing 7 codons from e coli genome with MAGE would require ~as much oligo synthesis as just synthesisng a whole genome #sb7conf (@ajfedorec)
05:09 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/GeneMods/status/875539985818103808
05:09 < yoleaux> #iwill try to help get a community biohacking lab started in Chicago (cc @BiochemPhD) #synbioleap #sb7conf (@GeneMods)
05:10 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YRyQqUpPu8
05:10 < yoleaux> Biohacker chat with Hannu Rajaniemi and Josiah Zayner - YouTube
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05:11 < kanzure> "Inducible, tunable and multiplex human gene regulation using CRISPR-Cpf1-based transcription factors" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/06/15/150656 https://twitter.com/crispr_de/status/875463519788912640
05:13 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/JoanGabriel/status/875279096460136448
05:14 < yoleaux> #sb7conf By creating oxygen, cyanobacteria killed 90% of life on Earth. Be careful what ideas you take from nature to build synbio systems. (@JoanGabriel)
05:17 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/GeneMods/status/875168932499533824
05:17 < yoleaux> So, enzymatic synthesis not solved just yet (by @molassemblies; @DNAScript?) #sb7conf (@GeneMods)
05:17 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/SynBioJamesH/status/875173181945896960
05:17 < yoleaux> @GeneMods @molassemblies @DNAScript Lots of others solving this challenge too - check out @nuclera and #evonetix. (@SynBioJamesH, in reply to tw:875168932499533824)
05:18 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/maxmundt1/status/875155843372662784
05:18 < yoleaux> "Beijing Genome Institute will be the first to sequence the human genome for 100 dollars 5 years from now" #sb7conf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCUtdAPUAAAWN_L.jpg (@maxmundt1)
05:20 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/875045428923949056
05:20 < yoleaux> Nature tags CRISPR 'off target' paper with note on concern after companies demanded action (https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608073/gene-editing-companies-hit-back-at-paper-that-criticized-crispr/) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCTIxkxXYAAyi60.jpg (@antonioregalado)
05:20 < kanzure> haha, so if you spam nature.com enough they will put up alerts on their papers.
05:27 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/andrewhessel/status/874461953292345344
05:27 < yoleaux> Couldn't get to Singapore for SB7.0? Watch the livestream here -- http://sb7.info/homepage/sb7-0-live-stream/ #synbio (@andrewhessel)
05:29 < kanzure> something about adamala vesicle fusion, not sure what that is about https://twitter.com/KateAdamala
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05:32 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/srikosuri/status/876775881049505793
05:32 < yoleaux> @kanzure @GeneMods It's not oligo cost. Microarray oligos are already that low. It's assembly, verification, logistics that drive cost. (@srikosuri, in reply to tw:876772041474572288)
05:35 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/876780323501101056
05:35 < yoleaux> @srikosuri @GeneMods For one-pot assembly, there are likely yeast strains that could help move towards >100 fragment assembly: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/enzymaticsynthesis/uyZqtJO24RE/lApLb4JmCAAJ (@kanzure, in reply to tw:876775881049505793)
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05:36 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/srikosuri/status/876776043834744832
05:36 < yoleaux> @kanzure @GeneMods Also saw that HGP email. Thanks. Let me know if I can help in any way. (@srikosuri, in reply to tw:876772041474572288)
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08:51 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/875913504451985411
08:51 < yoleaux> Colonizing Mars (thanks Prof Hubbard for creating this from my talk). Major changes to the plan coming soon. http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/space.2017.29009.emu (@elonmusk)
08:51 < kanzure> so he got a guy named hubbard to write his paper for him, but hubbard is not listed as the author..?
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10:45 < kanzure> a bunch of people complaining about interrupt-mode working styles https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14586390
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13:26 < kanzure> this company seems to be selling synthetic nucleotides they have labeled "X" and "Y" https://twitter.com/Synthorx
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14:12 < kanzure> haha "AI risk is string theory for computer programmers"
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15:40 < nmz787_i> might get one of these on free loan: https://ark.intel.com/products/91317/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2699-v4-55M-Cache-2_20-GHz
15:40 < chris_99> holy moley
15:41 < chris_99> 22 cores
15:41 < chris_99> how much ram would they give you too
15:42 < nmz787_i> I don't really need a desktop at home... but I figured I'd kick myself the first time I needed to compile something that was taking a while... also it gives me a reason to buy a nice video card, which should help watching/editing the GoPro 4k videos I recently recorded
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15:43 < chris_99> neat
15:43 < chris_99> what video editor will you use for that?
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15:44 < nmz787_i> hrmm, I was just trying to use AviDemux
15:45 < nmz787_i> no RAM will come with it
15:45 < nmz787_i> they'll just hand me a CPU and smile
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15:53 < chris_99> heh
15:53 < chris_99> i think i briefly played with https://www.lwks.com/
15:54 < chris_99> but iirc they disabled the export in the free version except to youtube or something i think
15:54 < chris_99> which is anonoying
15:59 < juri_> I should be soldering together the box nmz787_i broke for me, on thursday.
15:59 < juri_> ;)
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16:33 < nmz787_i> juri_: soldering! a computer case!?
16:35 < juri_> i need to solder a new power supply connector onto it, since the last one caught fire. while executing your code.
16:35 < juri_> ;)
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18:17 < kanzure_> freenode why
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18:30 < nmz787> juri_: i'm basically trogdor, burninating the weak power cables
18:31 < nmz787> kanzure: "I'm not good at organizing ideas; here are a bunch of ideas organized into paragraphs" x2
18:31 < kanzure> paragraphs are not optimal idea conveyance mechanisms for most people
18:32 < nmz787> good summary
18:32 < nmz787> I think that pretty much covered it, in my eyes
18:32 < nmz787> err, from my perspective
18:33 < kanzure> reverse engineering some more head set data https://github.com/openyou/emokit/issues/256#issuecomment-309615242
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18:39 < kanzure> genemods: sup.
18:39 < genemods> Hey!
18:39 < genemods> Your wiki rocks.
18:39 < kanzure> thank you.
18:41 < genemods> I haven't even had the chance to get through the index yet--you don't by any chance maintain a list of biohacking hubs, do you?
18:41 < kanzure> it's a little old http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups/
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18:41 < kanzure> personally i am not really fond of that business model, i don't think it works
18:42 < delinquentme> wom wom wom
18:42 < kanzure> usually people who are good at biology and who also want to work on DIY projects are the kind of people that have no money and can't fund a lab
18:42 < delinquentme> academia makes lots of good workers
18:42 < delinquentme> =X
18:42 < genemods> Heh
18:45 < kanzure> i was showing nmz787 and delinquentme some meeting notes i typed from a hgp-write conference call this morning. not sure if you'd be interested in seeing that.
18:45 < genemods> Definitely am, I think I've read some of them already (you posted them on twitter too, right?)
18:46 < kanzure> hgp-write this thing http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Synthetic%20human%20genome%20project%20hgp-write%20draft%20timeline%20-%202016.pdf
18:46 < kanzure> on twitter i post transcripts when i'm in the audience and typing, but in this case it was a more private meeting of a tech/infra working group focused on dna synthesis technology development
18:47 < genemods> I'm well aware :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqwepdrv-NY
18:48 < kanzure> bioethicists are largely evil
18:49 < delinquentme> ^^
18:49 < genemods> Haha
18:50 < delinquentme> good thing mom gave me a deep seated moral superiority
18:50 < kanzure> genemods: it's like telling someone they shouldn't learn to read/write, it's basic literacy.
18:50 < genemods> I like Laurie; disagree with her mostly but she's fun to talk/listen to
18:50 < kanzure> why is everyone a backwards savage? literacy is just basic and required for everyone.
18:52 < kanzure> those guys weren't really fond of my transcripts http://www.vocativ.com/428192/scientists-human-genome-struggle-transparency/
18:52 < kanzure> anyway, enough ethics
18:53 < genemods> Yeah didn't someone yell at you on twitter about it? Lame
18:53 < genemods> Indeed, engineering is more fun
18:53 < delinquentme> nicceee!
18:53 < kanzure> are you a student and if so what are you focusing on?
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18:55 < nmz787> .title
18:55 < yoleaux> Scientists Working To Build A Human Genome Struggle With Transparency - Vocativ
18:55 < genemods> Student, currently focused on solving delivery problem for CRISPR (and 3 other projects)
18:55 < genemods> I'm in the 3rd year pit of despair with my PhD
18:56 < genemods> Thing I really like to work on is growing synbio community at Northwestern/in Chicago
18:56 < kanzure> viral delivery of crispr?
18:56 < genemods> Hence the blog/twitter account
18:56 < genemods> Nanoparticle
18:57 < genemods> Lab I work in specializes in a construct that gets actively endocytosed by mammalian cells
18:57 < kanzure> more like ligandal's approach? ceramic nanoparticle gumdrop candy thing, http://www.ligandal.com/
18:57 < kanzure> wait no not ligandal. one sec.
18:57 < genemods> Think hairy ball, where ball is a liposome and hair is DNA oligos
18:57 < kanzure> no i got the wrong company oh noooo
18:58 < kanzure> honkala's thing
18:58 < delinquentme> genemods, do you know andre watson?
18:58 < delinquentme> is it ligandal.
18:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, honkala isnt there anymore though.
18:59 < delinquentme> Andre watson is spearheading it though.  Specifically to work on crispr delivery stuffs.
18:59 < kanzure> ah okay. so it was ligandal.  some sort of ceramic/fat nanoparticle delivery system to cells.
19:01 < genemods> delinquentme not by name; is he in Chicago?
19:02 < genemods> Ah, just clicked the Ligandal link
19:02 < kanzure> so, why not viruses?
19:03 < delinquentme> balls.  I had a video of andre's phd thesis.  I believe its an extension of that.
19:03 < delinquentme> genemods, nah hes here in SF
19:03 < genemods> immunogenicity
19:04 < delinquentme> definitely a smart dude.
19:05 < delinquentme> genemods, you should be steering mirkin towards anti-aging
19:05 < genemods> Although apparently there are ways to tolerize body to foreign proteins with a different set of nanoparticles, so repeated viral delivery might get more viable in the future
19:05 < delinquentme> id bet hes a hard guy to get a hold of though.
19:05 < delinquentme> https://www.google.com/patents/WO2015042585A1?cl=en
19:05 < genemods> hah. I'll be sure to bring that up on my Skype call with him tomorrow.
19:05 < kanzure> on the topic of immunogenicity, one of my project proposals involves intentionally infecting brains with toxo
19:06 < delinquentme> Nanoparticle-mediated gene delivery, genomic editing and ligand-targeted modification in various cell populations
19:06 < kanzure> page 15 shows the toxo-related project http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2017-02-03-beacon.pdf
19:07 < delinquentme>  a core polyplex and a silica coating thereon; with a multitude of additional treatments
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19:09 < genemods> How are you planning to neutralize toxo so it's a neutral carrier?
19:09 < kanzure> it's actually not deadly-- it's other brain parasites that you need to worry about
19:10 < kanzure> usually the ones that eat your whole brain. those are the bad ones.
19:10 < kanzure> i mean, none of them are particularly good at the moment, but some are mostly benign
19:10 < genemods> So you're definitely planning on never ever becoming immunocompromised then (or spending time with immunocomped person)?
19:10 < kanzure> heh
19:10 < kanzure> yeah i'll admit there are holes.
19:11 < kanzure> toxo infects like 80% of the human population
19:11 < genemods> 84% of France according to pedia
19:11 < kanzure> er, *has* infected
19:11 < kanzure> sure.
19:12 < genemods> So what would you deliver?
19:12 < kanzure> in the slide, i propose an artificial selection method of picking out microbes from mice brain after running the mice through mazes and scoring maze solving performance
19:13 < kanzure> and then reintroducing the microbes into the experiment for strong scores
19:13 < kanzure> oh if you mean what plasmids to include in the microbe, i think you could get some interesting results by just randomly picking human brain protein genes to randomly express-- let the microbes tweak the details on their own through selection.
19:14 < kanzure> s/human/mouse
19:16 < kanzure> PMed you the link to the transcript for that hgp-write thing.
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19:19 < kanzure> jcluck: you found a needle in time?
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19:20 < kanzure> oh.
19:21 < delinquentme> genemods, i loved the one talk he gave to the USAF here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV3Yhi9ib3Y
19:22 < delinquentme> first time I heard of the guy but I was cheering during the vid at the beautiful simplicity of the solutions they came up w
19:22 < delinquentme> I think the pressure-alignment for the nanoink is my fav.
19:22 < delinquentme> nano-ink-die **
19:24 < genemods> My personal favorite thing the lab has done is actually more recent, and macro
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19:27 < genemods> ...and still totally under wraps? Can't find public news about it anywhere
19:31 < genemods> Welp, when it gets released someone (nudge nudge) should make an open-source version of it
19:33 < kanzure> i'll put it on the list.
19:34 < kanzure> .in 200d make an open-source somethig something (genemods)
19:34 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll remind you on 6 Jan 2018 02:34Z
19:36 < delinquentme> just found out about this lil fuckball:
19:36 < delinquentme> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilverPush
19:36 < kanzure> genemods: so anyway, with hgp-write, i'm hoping it's not a repeat of Sc2.0--- basically a payday for IDT/Twist. i think they should focus on attempting to fund advancements in oligonucleotide synthesis chemistry.
19:36 < delinquentme> "SilverPush's tracking software can be embedded into mobile apps and is designed to operate without the knowledge of end users."
19:37 < delinquentme> "SilverPush does not have an opt-out mechanism, and users are often unaware that they are being tracked with SilverPush."
19:38 < delinquentme> "In July 2014, TechCrunch reported that SilverPush was using "ultrasonic inaudible sounds" called "audio beacons" along with cookies to reliably track users across multiple devices and that devices with an app containing the SilverPush SDK are constantly listening for audio beacons."
19:38 < kanzure> delinquentme: learn you about some sidechannels yo http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/
19:39 < genemods> Totally agreed on oligo synthesis
19:40 < genemods> Was disappointed Molecular Assemblies didn't have more to show for themselves at SB7.0
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19:40 < kanzure> there's a patent somewhere for molecular assemblies. but it's just tdt stuff.
19:40 < kanzure> there were igem groups that did as much
19:40 < kanzure> http://2014.igem.org/Team:Cooper_Union/TdT_project
19:40 < kanzure> from
19:40 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/#igem-2014
19:41 < kanzure> and http://2015.igem.org/Team:Cooper_Union/DeNovoSynthesis
19:41 < kanzure> various emails about TdT synthesis strategies https://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis
19:43 < yashgaroth> molecular assemblies is doing a little more with their blocked nucleotides to prevent secondary structure formation, but only they know how well it actually works
19:44 < genemods> Curious: how does a phosphoramidite inkjet printer solve the hydrolysis issue? My impression with older machines is they try really hard to keep everything from being exposed to air because humidity destroys the reagents.
19:44 < kanzure> gas chamber
19:44 < genemods> Ah
19:44 < genemods> Simple enough
19:44 < kanzure> so that's one of my major concerns about that project actually
19:44 < kanzure> there's a bunch of parameters like that
19:45 < kanzure> and frankly i'm not a chemist
19:45 < kanzure> so once the machine gets built, i want to hire a chemist to take the machine and tweak it until it works
19:45 < kanzure> i also want to hire the chemist before building the machine-- so that the chemist can tell me how much of an idiot i am
19:46 < kanzure> btw the place i have in mind to build that monster is actually in chicago, he runs his own inkjet business
19:47 < genemods> YESYESYES
19:47 < genemods> come to Chicago
19:47 < genemods> I've been scheming to grow the biohacking community here
19:47 < genemods> And one of the things I've concluded is
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19:47 < kanzure> ah there he is now.
19:47 < delinquentme> is there any really successful biohacking community?
19:48 < delinquentme> its really a "startup" isnt it?
19:48 < yashgaroth> I'd say "define successful", but no
19:48 < genemods> If we want to attract decent numbers of people we need a strong biohacking/DIYbio/open hardware component
19:48 < CaptHindsight> outside of Monsanto?  :)
19:48 < delinquentme> ha
19:48 < delinquentme> sure yashgaroth
19:49 < delinquentme> genemods, why do it in chicago instead of where the bio ppl are already at?
19:49 < kanzure> genemods: i think small mission-focused projects will go better than random biohacking gyms. the trick is, where does the money come from?
19:49 < delinquentme> fecal biome transplant sales?
19:49 < kanzure> other than fecal biome transplant sales, yes.
19:49 < genemods> two reasons in no order of importance: I like the idea of growing something from the ground up, and my wife really likes Chicago
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19:52 < genemods> Agreed on the mission-focused (and small) projects
19:52 < genemods> I'm a fan of Sebastian Cocioba's idea of small, curiosity/local need-driven science (and tech)
19:52 < kanzure> while you're around, i should also mention that we've been drafting a paper on an electronically-controlled physically-tethered polymerase for DNA synthesis
19:53 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GL_bB_eHDOEkzmayfUjTtVK6cPbSeI5HyLN4qHV25qQ/edit
19:54 < kanzure> inkjet is more near-term practical.
20:00 < genemods> reading now
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20:07 < kanzure> cevi_: sup.
20:08 < cevi_> I just got back from a conference in serbia
20:08 < kanzure> mission report plz
20:09 < cevi_> two of the proposed solutions to the constraint satisfaction dichotomy conjecture seem to be legit
20:10 < cevi_> also, the authors are very friendly
20:10 < cevi_> we might have gone drinking for about six hours the night before my plane flight back
20:12 < cevi_> very few of the people there seemed to think that the algorithms would be practically useful in the near future, though
20:16 < cevi_> the conference at least made it to Serbian national news
20:17 < cevi_> we had a "round table" discussion about the proposed solutions where people grilled the authors to see if they were legit
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20:21 < kanzure> ouch?
20:22 < cevi_> I think Zhuk's approach has some potential for use beyond this particular problem
20:23 < cevi_> he has a very clever way of discovering hidden linear constraints which are implied by the original constraints
20:24 < kanzure> cevi_: did i show you the error correction dna synthesis email?
20:24 < cevi_> several weeks ago?
20:24 < kanzure> yeah ok.
20:27 < cevi_> also, I might end up being the first person (other than the authors) who actually finishes reading one of these proofs and checking all the details
20:29 < kanzure> what was the proof size, can you link me again
20:29 < cevi_> 40 pages
20:29 < cevi_> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.01914.pdf
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20:29 < cevi_> I've carefully checked the first 20, and I got the high-level explanation from the author
20:30 < cevi_> the whole argument is totally out of left field
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20:32 < cevi_> (we did a one-on-one discussion the day after the round table, and he explained where the idea came from)
20:33 < cevi_> it's funny because both me and him only do this stuff as a hobby
20:34 < cevi_> if you just try to read his paper straight through, you will probably have some trouble though
20:34 < cevi_> it has some prerequisites
20:34 < cevi_> I put together a reading guide
20:34 < cevi_> http://math.stanford.edu/~notzeb/csp.html
20:35 < kanzure> the last mathy thing i was doing at stanford was hanging out with this guy http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/2016-july-bitcoin-developers-miners-meeting/dan-boneh/
20:35 < kanzure> ( http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/simons-institute/pairing-cryptography/ )
20:47 < kanzure> cevi_: most of the math i run into is very simple finite field stuff. elliptic curves over finite fields, and such.
20:48 < cevi_> the fact that a gaussian distribution is spherically symmetric seems to come up in computer science occasionally
20:49 < kanzure> andytosh1: are you around
20:49 < cevi_> it's why a lot of semidefinite programming things work, at a vague hand-wavy level
20:50 < cevi_> relatedly, there is the central limit theorem
20:50 < cevi_> oh, it also seems to come up a lot in machine learning
20:52 < kanzure> are you familiar with cryptography basics?
20:52 < cevi_> a bit - I was very interested in it in high school
20:53 < cevi_> and theoretical computer science is very nearly cryptography stuff
20:54 < kanzure> bilinear maps are really useful for a bunch of "zero-knowledge proofs" that will be important for bitcoin in the future.
20:55 < cevi_> "bilinear maps" is not very specific
20:55 < kanzure> erm.. one sec.
20:56 < cevi_> oh, is this the pairing cryptography transcript you sent a few minutes ago?
20:56 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/Quadratic%20span%20programs%20and%20succinct%20NIZKs%20without%20PCPs%20-%20GGPR.pdf
20:57 < kanzure> not really a good intro. hrm.
20:58 < cevi_> oh, I haven't seen this before
20:59 < kanzure> ah maybe this one,
20:59 < kanzure> https://people.xiph.org/~greg/simple_verifyable_execution.txt
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21:05 < kanzure> cevi_: Madars (a user in here) wrote this one about linear constraint satisfaction problems for zero-knowledge proofs http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/Quasilinear-size%20zero%20knowledge%20from%20linear-algebraic%20PCPs%20-%202016.pdf
21:06 < cevi_> you seem to be really into PCPs - is this for cryptocurrency applications?
21:07 < kanzure> snarks and PCP theorem stuff is useful for bitcoin because you can transmit the proof instead of a tremendous amount of data
21:07 < kanzure> ((or instead of checking the data again)
21:07 < cevi_> I thought in practice that PCPs end up being an even more tremendous amount of data
21:08 < kanzure> bottleneck is prover is slow
21:08 < cevi_> oh, but I guess you are only looking at three bits of it or whatever
21:09 < kanzure> https://github.com/scipr-lab/libsnark is used in some bitcoin forks
21:10 < kanzure> although i should warn that one of the big problems with this approach is that it requires trusted setup (basically this is a really uncomfortable requirement that users are not okay with; usually the vulnerability is somtehing like: if one of the setup participants keeps the data instead of deleting their setup data, then they have an infinitely powerful backdoor into the prover/system)
21:11 < kanzure> in fact someone who did a trusted setup ritual for libsnark wrote a blog post about it, https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony
21:17 < kanzure> genemods: wait are you still reading that :)
21:17 < genemods> Among many other things, you link monster :P
21:18 < kanzure> yea it's a bit of a problem.. i have many tens of thousands of bookmarks.
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