--- Log opened Thu Aug 03 00:00:39 2017
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03:40 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/KriegeskorteLab/status/892765424890281985
03:40 < yoleaux> this Neuron paper cites 43 preprints (~25% of its refs). science can't afford year-long delays incurred by traditional publication. https://twitter.com/KriegeskorteLab/status/892764040921010176 (@KriegeskorteLab)
03:47 < adlai> uh, if the paper is able to cite those preprints, maybe it's a nonissue?
03:59 < kanzure> adlai: some publications reject papers that cite preprints. sooo.... science is backwards.
03:59 < kanzure> it's because of this weird thing where citations are proxies for prestige value transfer
04:00 < kanzure> and "this citation is confirming my argument with really good science" vs "i am citing a thing to indicate where the idea is coming from"
04:01 < adlai> or we could declare the publication process officially senile when there are publication-ready preprints who's only remaining barrier is the fact that all the citations are preprints
04:02 < adlai> those categories of citations (c|sh)ould be... segregated
04:03 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/893062491537854468
04:03 < yoleaux> @blahah404 @Sci_Hub generally, scihub needs to be extremely widely distributed, and we need to be able to talk about everyone having copies. (@kanzure, in reply to tw:893062035747090433)
04:03 < kanzure> adlai: actually i haven't seen segregated bibliographies in a loooong time. it's quite uncommon.
04:05 < adlai> the other day i was delighted to discover upon finishing a book (iirc jaynes's bicameral mind) that it had separate indices for things
04:06 < adlai> (it's a well-written book, almost enough to distract from the iffy science)
04:09 < kanzure> almost :-)
04:12 < kanzure> omething about radiator theory and uh.. bipedalism. and why human brains do brain things.
04:12 < kanzure> 16:29 < kanzure> carl sagan claims "bipedalism preceded encephalization because australopithecines cranial volume was low and they were walking around"
04:13 < kanzure> "Delegation to automaticity: the driving force for cognitive evolution?" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010745/
04:13 < kanzure> and http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-12-01.log
04:14 < kanzure> also gonna mention http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/How%20hard%20is%20artificial%20intelligence%3f%20Evolutionary%20arguments%20and%20selection%20effects%20-%20Shulman%20-%20Bostrom.pdf for some reason
04:18 < kanzure> someone asks, "what if it was his plan all along to use teslas as pods in the hyperloop"
04:18 < kanzure> "and to do hyperloops underground with boring" (well this one seems less likely. need really long tunnels.)
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05:28 < streety> If high speeds are going to be possible I thought the hyperloop was going to need to be as straight as possible
05:28 < streety> tunnels would have to be involved
05:28 < streety> straight and level
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07:22 < mrdata> streety, yes; any sort of curve will throw people to towards it; except one, which is the curvature of the earth, because gravity helps
07:22 < mrdata> towards and away
07:23 < mrdata> but, just like highways are graded to match turns, this can be, too
07:24 < mrdata> so if you have to turn, the curve will be gentle, and you'll only feel slightly pressed to the floor
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10:51 < kanzure> why not install microwaves around the stomach organ and just nuke food more directly?
10:52 < kanzure> you can even do some beam shaping so as to avoid nuking the stomach.
10:59 < kanzure> also i think you can emulisfy the stomach contents
10:59 < kanzure> er, emulsify
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11:34 < mrdata> isnt going to work
11:34 < mrdata> the abdomen will get cooked
11:34 < mrdata> largely because you, too, are food
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11:45 < kanzure> mrdata: i mean place the microwave inside the body.
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11:56 < mrdata> kanzure, put it insize the stomach?
11:56 < mrdata> inside
11:56 < mrdata> it will have to be very small, and protected against stomach acids
11:56 < mrdata> and the stomach lining will still get too close
11:57 < nos> What about that guy who kept eating some kind of solver compound until he turned blue?
11:58 < nos> His stomach might work as a microwave cavity.
11:58 < nos> ~silver
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12:02 < kanzure> mrdata: well i was thinking around the stomach. if you put it inside, it would have to be attached i think, otherwise the orientation could become problematic?
12:02 < kanzure> you could also install metal rods either around the stomach or inside the stomach to provide heat
12:03 < kanzure> you could laser ablate the food :-)
12:03 < mrdata> the stomach lining will still get cooked
12:03 < kanzure> do you do phased arrays
12:03 < mrdata> and you dont want food that is at cooking temperatures to be inside your body
12:03 < kanzure> are you a beamshaper?
12:04 < kanzure> well you should be OK with food that is heated into gas/smoke
12:04 < mrdata> only if youre a robot from futurama
12:15 < fltrz> why are we considering putting the microwave inside the human body? what is the benefit?
12:17 < fltrz> or is that only the first step? the next being to put the toilet in the rectum?
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12:20 < fltrz> ugh, I bought one of those older CRT video doorphones, thinking there was a relatively flat miniature CRT (like in viewfinders) and then some optics to relay it to the curved screen
12:20 < fltrz> instead the curved screen is part of the CRT
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12:22 < fltrz> glad I didn't try to "pry the crt from the optics" (without eye protection)
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13:21 < kanzure> "they showed that Pleurobrachia lacked the genes and enzymes required to manufacture a long list of neurotransmitters widely seen in other animals. These missing neurotransmitters included not just the ones that Moroz had noted back in 1995 – serotonin, dopamine and nitric oxide – but also acetylcholine, octopamine, noradrenaline and others. The ctenophore also lacked genes for the ...
13:21 < kanzure> ...receptors that allow a neuron to capture these neurotransmitters and respond to them."
13:21 < kanzure> "It meant that the nervous system of the ctenophore had evolved from the ground up, using a different set of molecules and genes than any other animal known on Earth. It was a classic case of convergence: the lineage of ctenophores had evolved a nervous system using whatever genetic starting materials were available. In a sense, it was an alien nervous system – evolved separately from the ...
13:22 < kanzure> ...rest of the animal kingdom."
13:22 < kanzure> from https://aeon.co/essays/what-the-ctenophore-says-about-the-evolution-of-intelligence
13:26 < kanzure> "Moroz now counts nine to 12 independent evolutionary origins of the nervous system – including at least one in cnidaria, three in echinoderms, one in arthropods, one in molluscs, one in vertebrates, and at least one in ctenophores"
13:30 < nmz787> yeah, pretty sure intestines are some sort of worm that invaded and then decided to chill out and work together
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13:45 < kanzure> that's just your tapeworm talking
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13:52 < nmz787> fltrz: I wanted to put urethras into the rectum... self-washing defecation
13:53 < fltrz> its better than the idea to electrically synthesize amino acids / proteins / minerals from faeces, pumping it back from the rectum to the stomach, so the only thing exiting the rectum would be a power cord
13:55 < kanzure> fltrz: where was that idea from?
13:55 < fltrz> I thought from this channel
13:56 < kanzure> sadly we are not always the originators of the best ideas.
13:56 < fltrz> its not exactly a best ideo IMHO
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13:59 < fltrz> it does make one wonder if the energy efficiency from spreading manure all the way to transporting food to chewing it up could be matched with electrical -> nutrition conversion process
14:01 < fltrz> also there is no suitable location for a button that rolls up the power cord like on a vacuum cleaner
14:02 < fltrz> (every time after consuming electricity, about 3 times a day)
14:04 < fltrz> toilets would no longer need to be used/cleaned/maintained, they become rare museum pieces, until when antique and high valued. the rich of course still get to eat real food, and buy these antique toilets
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14:51 < nmz787> fltrz: "electrically synthesize amino" indicates you'd need to supply electricity, so the cord could retract into the wall
14:51 < nmz787> pretty sure someone online has a video of a power cord in their butt
14:51 < nmz787> not that I've checked...
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17:00 < kanzure> "Exploration and generalization in vast spaces" http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/08/01/171371
17:00 < kanzure> i'm curious whether this parameter/metric is different for other animals.
17:02 < kanzure> "Natural language processing with small feed-forward networks" https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.00214
17:03 < kanzure> todo: select for bacteria that can survive re-entry.  we should be plastering the hulls of spacex rockets with different bacteria cultures, and recovering them after n landing attempts.
17:05 < kanzure> unfortunately spacex probably wont do it, since folks seem to value burning off all the life (something about planetary contamination or whatever)
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20:24 < fenn> ctenophores featured prominently in "the abyss"
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21:49 < kanzure> i wonder if allen brain institute could be convinced to do lots of macro comparative neuroanatomy studies.
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 04 00:00:39 2017