--- Log opened Sun Aug 13 00:00:48 2017
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04:51 < kanzure> bored.
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05:01 < kanzure> "Translating good poems into another language and retaining their original sense has literally lead to a Nobel prize in literature. It is unfair to expect Google Translate to reliably do better."
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07:55 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000253
07:55 < yoleaux> NetRunner: a web browser catering to powerusers | Hacker News
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10:37 < kanzure> madsen submarine update :\ (not much here) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40916787
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12:14 < streety> "his submarine, which at one stage was the largest privately-made vessel of its kind" does this mean a larger submarine has been built or no one has checked since it was claimed to be the largest at the time of its maiden voyage?
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12:15 < emeraldgreen> http://sci-hub.cc/10.1038/mp.2012.184
12:15 < kanzure> .title
12:16 < emeraldgreen> "Childhood intelligence is heritable, highly polygenic and associated with FNBP1L"
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12:16 < kanzure> emeraldgreen: FNBP1L is listed on http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/ :-)
12:16 < emeraldgreen> This FNBP1L thing looks like something that could work in adults when introduced via gene therapy, because it is always active and isn't morphogenesis-specific
12:16 < emeraldgreen> kanzure yup
12:18 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=dee15f94 Bryan Bishop: add second ref for FNBP1L mutants >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
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12:36 < kanzure> the article in the new yorker about "wah, solomon shereshevsky was using mnemonic tricks instead of using perfect recall" is pretty stupid. what difference does it make how the information is recorded? if mnemonics were low-effort for him, then that should be fine.
12:39 < Storyteller> wouldn't mnemonics be a method of perfect recall? like recall is the thing you do and mnemonics are one way to do it?
12:40 < nmz787> DRAM took his job
12:40 < nmz787> :P
12:40 < nmz787> .wik Eidetic memory
12:40 < yoleaux> "Eidetic memory (/aɪˈdɛtɪk/; sometimes called photographic memory) is an ability to vividly recall images from memory after only a few instances of exposure, with high precision for a brief time after exposure, without using a mnemonic device. Although the terms eidetic memory and photographic memory are popularly used interchangeably,  …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory
12:41 < nmz787> my guess is that was what they meant by perfect recall?
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12:44 < nmz787> seems that guy who wanted to foget could have turned to drugs
12:44 < nmz787> forget*
12:44 < nmz787> most of the memory-frazzling drugs should have been available back then
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12:46 < kanzure> frazzlers?
12:49 < nmz787> https://frinkiac.com/caption/S05E16/1094959
12:51 < nmz787> barbiturates and benzodiazapenes, PCP, etc
12:52 < nmz787> I guess depends on how overwhelming these memories were for him
12:52 < nmz787> (I didn't really read the article, just skimmed it)
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12:58 < nmz787> hmm... https://www.researchgate.net/figure/308721758_fig9_Fig-10-a-I-Schematic-illustration-of-the-mask-assisted-filtration-process-scale
13:00 < nmz787> I'm not really sure what this methodology accomplishes, or why it is called filtration "mask-assisted filtration"  and/or "mask-assisted vacuum filtration"
13:00 < nmz787> re this paper: pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsnano.7b03288
13:00 < nmz787> One-Step Device Fabrication of Phosphorene and Graphene Interdigital MicroSupercapacitors with High Energy Density
13:06 < nmz787> ok, I guess Fig 1 in that is somewhat helpful
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13:24 < docl> it would be nice to be able to commit books to memory. even if you had to then read them later to get understanding, you could instantly deal with boredom anywhere anytime just by pulling out a book you've imaged but not yet read.
13:26 < docl> well, it would have to be high enough speed to compete with regular reading
13:28 < docl> if you could mneumonically commit a book to memory at 10% the time cost to read it, it could be worth it. especially since now you can reread the book as many times as you need to without keeping a physical copy, make every test effectively open-book, and so on
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13:37 < docl> time savings isn't needed to make it worth doing for some applications. because it does away with the requirement of prerequisites to some degree. you could take an advanced math book you are incapable of understanding yet, memorize it with the mneumonics, then pull it out to read later when you have enough background to comprehend it.
13:38 < docl> also, reference material. if you can mneumonically memorize that without too much mind numbing boredom, you can look stuff up on the fly and seem really smart
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13:54 < kanzure> mega blorp
13:55 < kanzure> docl: i think you could make a nootropic that helps with visual memory. since we have fMRI measurements of visual memory content, we should be able to find drugs (by screening huge arrays of drugs + microbes) that improve that metric. while it's just a correlation, it might also correlate with subjective reports of improved memory and/or actual testing of visual memory contents (by recall ...
13:55 < kanzure> ...testing).
13:56 < kanzure> i also think that the problem with mnemonics is effort.  if someone has a finite amount of cognitive effort available during a day, then having a high-effort mental task is sort of a bad idea. but if it's nearly effortless then that's much better.
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13:58 < kanzure> might be possible to test visual memory persistence in monkeys if they can be trained to read a map.  just give them a map and take it away, and then see if they can use their knowledge of the map to navigate a maze more efficiently.
13:58 < kanzure> (the problem with drug array screening is that you need lots of trial runs. so... monkeys help, since it's more difficult to scale that up with humans, especially with drugging 'em.)
13:58 < kanzure> well, harder to *argue* for scaling it up. not actually harder.
14:01 < kanzure> more speculatively, attacking the problem at its source might also be productive (why does effort feel like it has a cost at all--- internal privileged resources should not be subjected to cost accounting like that, except when requested for a cost analysis)
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14:07 < docl> yeah, I've heard conflicting reports on willpower (that you have a fixed budget, or don't unless you believe you do)
14:07 < fenn> * not actually conflicting
14:09 < kanzure> i have been sort of worried about reading those reports because i wonder if thinking about its implications would break myself :P
14:10 < docl> yeah, not conflicting exactly, just slightly confusing. but then there was some kind of big replication crisis, so I'm not sure what to think at this point.
14:10 < kanzure> i am also not sure if "will power" actually exists. and/or whether it's harmful to believe that "will power" exists (even if it does exist).
14:12 < kanzure> (and it's weird that we have such feeble cognitions that these details happen to matter. sigh.)
14:13 < docl> just anecdotally it seems like there's definitely a feeling of being mentally exhausted, which diminishes performance, but some capacity to push through it seems to exist too.
14:14 < fenn> diminishes performance on a single task, but not if you change the task
14:14 < kanzure> i have 23andme results from someone who claims (and has been observed) to never feel mentally exhausted. i plan to get genome sequencing.
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14:16 < docl> when you have a structured environment it makes a big difference. I find myself pushing through mild exhaustion at work quite often. whereas in a freewill context like working on a hobby at home I'm way less likely to push through and more likely to do something low mental effort like read or watch tv.
14:16 < kanzure> well if it helps, i'm happy to heckle you until you start doing productive things.
14:17 < docl> yeah but if I'm watching tv I can't read your heckline
14:17 < kanzure> hmm.
14:17 < docl> *heckling
14:19 < kanzure> if cognitive exhaustion is just a sensory perception like feeling a sun burn on the skin, then there might be a way to just ignore or block the signals.
14:20 < fenn> i think it's a cognitive strategy: don't bang your head on a wall if the wall won't move
14:20 < kanzure> i think the popular belief is that it must be tied to circadian rhythm.
14:20 < fenn> no it's quicker than that
14:21 < kanzure> well going to sleep is pretty fast.
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14:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/motivation-effort/
14:23 < kanzure> exertion of mental effort is contagious http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/motivation-effort/Is%20mental%20effort%20exertion%20contagious%3f.pdf
14:24 < fenn> takes about 14-16 hours to get sleepy, whereas people get tired of the same task after 2-3 hours
14:24 < fenn> or less, depending. dual-n-back is exhausting after like 2 minutes
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14:26 < kanzure> sleep stuff http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/sleep/
14:26 < docl> blocking pain can be a skill, so maybe blocking the perception of mental exhaustion is a similar skill? can you start by blocking pain and generalize from there?
14:30 < nmz787> kanzure: so if you can't do comparison bioinformatically without lots and lots of samples... the DNA sequencing could potentially be used to boot up some cells with synthetic DNA and induce them to differentiate into neurons which you could then put through a battery of tests including knockouts, etc.... or just reboot into clones I guess
14:33 < kanzure> well, i don't think we know what properties of individual neurons lead to better memory.
14:33 < kanzure> you could introduce the dna into stem cells and then put the stem cells in monkey brains and wait for them to be well-integrated into monkey brain.
14:33 < kanzure> and then you can test the monkey.
14:34 < kanzure> "reboot into clones" ok that's basically what you said, nevermind.
14:35 < kanzure> nmz787: hgp-write is doing a roadmapping exercise either now/soon.  i am going to advocate for the document to include nanofluidics/microfluidics.  but i haven't been following the topic for the past ~2 years.
14:51 < kanzure> "An epigenetics-inspired DNA-based data storage system" https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0c83/b08bbdb739a48df622af44a561071b7e14b4.pdf
14:52 < nmz787> this one looked promising to me http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.4975369?journalCode=apl
14:52 < nmz787> Electrostatically actuated membranes made from silica thin films
14:54 < kanzure> "Polymerizable phosphoramidites with an acid-cleavable linker for eco-friendly synthetic oligodeoxynucleotide purification" http://pubs.rsc.org/-/content/articlelanding/2016/gc/c5gc01762a/unauth#!divAbstract
14:54 < kanzure> hey what about that one^
14:54 < kanzure> "In purification, the full-length ODN was co-polymerized into a polyacrylamide gel, and the failure sequences and other impurities were removed by washing. Pure ODN was cleaved from the gel with 80% acetic acid"
14:56 < kanzure> well i guess that's no different from doing sequencing on the molecules before using them.
14:57 < nmz787> recovery is one part of the battle in that synthesis technique, but all the prior steps are still just as non-green and water sensitive
14:57 < kanzure> you can recover from gels. and you can also laser ablate from gels if you want to wash away bad results.
14:58 < kanzure> i mean sanger sequencing is the same thing right. i shouldn't have quoted htat.
14:58 < nmz787> I'd read some of these maybe https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22liquid+phase%22+oligonucleotide+synthesis&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C38&as_ylo=2013
15:01 < nmz787> this paper is pretty similar to what I've proposed http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.oprd.6b00139
15:01 < nmz787> Organic Solvent Nanofiltration (OSN): A New Technology Platform for Liquid-Phase Oligonucleotide Synthesis (LPOS)
15:02 < kanzure> this search is giving me good but sort of unrelated results
15:02 < kanzure> "Protein calligraphy: a new concept begins to take shape" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4965849/
15:02 < nmz787> "solid-phase oligonucleotide synthesis (SPOS)" "Despite its clear advantages of easy purification and rapid synthesis, the general consensus with regards to scaling up the SPOS process is that it is very difficult for several reasons"
15:02 < kanzure> i mean this is interesting but it's not oligonucleotide synthesis: "Proposed scheme for creating a protein pipeline to integrate multiple-enzyme pathways for sequential catalytic reactions. Enzymes are encapsulated within tubular proteins that are assembled together, which enables direct diffusion of intermediates between active sites."
15:03 < nmz787> "Thirdly, the SPOS process is highly mass intensive at large scale 6 . For instance, to produce 1kg of 20- mer phosphorothioate oligos, approximately 4,000 kg of solvents, reagents, and water are needed16 ."
15:03 < kanzure> err is that for unique sequences
15:03 < kanzure> or is that for people who have never heard about PCR?
15:04 < kanzure> maaku: my last link (above) is of relevance to molecular nanotechnology interests.
15:15 < kanzure> "Refactoring the genetic code for increased evolvability" http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/04/17/128058.full.pdf
15:23 < kanzure> "A systematic comparison of error correction enzymes by next-generation sequencing" https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/doi/10.1093/nar/gkx691/4057729/A-systematic-comparison-of-error-correction
15:24 < kanzure> august 2017. oh it's church/kosuri.
15:25 < kanzure> oh it was on biorxiv in january. hmm.
15:34 < kanzure> this paper claims to have generated 10^43 unique dna molecules? https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/45/3/1553/2731601/Registry-in-a-tube-multiplexed-pools-of
15:39 < kanzure> superkuh: does this sound like bullshit to you? https://www.google.com/patents/US6506148  human skin response from flashing images on computer monitors.
15:40 < nmz787> it appears they started with 580 bp fragments?
15:41 < superkuh> Yes. Very bullshit.
15:41 < superkuh> Not even wrong.
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15:45 < superkuh> The electromagnetic fields of a a monitor displaying (1-10) Hz patterns aren't even going to be at that frequency. Not even close.
15:45 < kanzure> nmz787: ah.
15:45 < kanzure> superkuh: thank you.
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15:50 < docl> http://wondergressive.com/experiment-in-photographic-memory/
15:50 < docl> http://wondergressive.com/photographic-memory-phase-2-holy-shit/
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15:53 < docl> the guy tested the 'military method' for photographic memory which involves blinking on a bright light in a dark room and memorizing a paragraph of text. he claims it worked, but the ability faded after two weeks of not practicing
15:54 < kanzure> why doesn't this work with blinking?
15:55 < docl> it's kind of the opposite of blinking. you turn off the light, then flash the light on briefly after your eyes have adjusted.
15:56 < nmz787> superkuh: harmonics?
15:58 < superkuh> I mean, we can discuss that, but it doesn't even make sense that it'd generate electromagnetic emissions at 1 Hz or so. And of that intensity? There's a reason sub comms stations are hundreds of miles long.
16:00 < superkuh> It'd make more sense for him to bullshit about the magnetic field from the focusing coils.
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16:09 < superkuh> If you do what is described you'll end up transmitting a beacon (on off) at some hundreds of MHz (what the video card/monitor talk at, ~140 MHz for me in tests). mybit here on freenode made a little JS/html snippet do transmit morse that way.
16:09 < superkuh> s/do/to/
16:17 < fltrz> why would a monitor not be able to generate 0.5Hz electric fields? the generation of fields is entirely plausible imho, I take more issue with the "ptosis of eyelid" confirmation method
16:18 < fltrz> i.e. the subject sees intensity oscillation because the eyelid is supposedly autonomously (non consciously) fluttering
16:18 < fltrz> but aren't those intensity variations more likely to be the direct result of... the .5Hz intensity variations of the display device lol?
16:19 < fltrz> also, playing with a neodymium magnet (say 1 rotation per 2 seconds), you'd think you would notice such an effect no?
16:21 < fltrz> superkuh: the author is not talking about the electric fields from the display interface cables, but from the electrodes of the display device
16:24 < fltrz> since a CRT for example will always have the electron gun at a negative potential with respect to the screen electrode, a low frequency variation of  intensity would actually cause a low frequency electric field variation
16:24 < superkuh> Because there's not a 1-to-1 or any simple correlation between light intensity of the monitor and the electrical fields of the deflector paddles. And there's no reason the electrical field of the paddles would radiate or have any significant gradient outside between the electrodes.
16:24 < fltrz> i.e. the dc component is non-zero, so it can be modulated at a low frequency
16:24 < fltrz> I agree fully there is no 1-1 simple correlation
16:25 < fltrz> the deflector coils are not used (these can not be varied by the video contents)
16:25 < fltrz> one coil will be at field rate, and one coil will be a line rate
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16:27 < fltrz> frankly to me their whole idea is uninteresting because of the low carrier frequency of .5Hz so even if it were noticable, that would only give a brain computer interface a  few bits every minute or so
16:27 < kanzure> docl: if that technique works then i think htc vive and other headsets are probably an ideal training environment.
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16:29 < fltrz> an array of piezzo's or whatever distributed over the skin would be a much wider communication channel, since independent signals can be fed to each piezzo
16:30 < kanzure> "World record for memorizing binary digits in 1 second timespan is 48 bits. For base 10 numbers in 1 second it's 19 digits."
16:31 < Jenda`> [which is 63 bits]
16:34 < fltrz> haha, I just read the photographic memory page, hahaha
16:35 < fltrz> I think we can all agree that it is possible memorize a paragraph by reading it until you remember it
16:36 < fltrz> its not because the light flashed on only a couple of times for a split second that the image was only visible during those split seconds, they are simply continuing to read the decaying _afterimage_
16:37 < fltrz> my guess is it would take slightly longer to memorize this way, but the guy is free to pat himself on the back that he read the paragraph using a few less joules of energy from the lightbulb lol
16:37 < fltrz> thats the most literate interpretation of photographic memory: the afterimage
16:38 < kanzure> what's wrong with reading an afterimage?
16:38 < docl> well of course it's the afterimage
16:38 < kanzure> i'm very confused.
16:39 < fltrz> theres nothing wrong with it, but do these people believe that "photographic memory" is literally at the photoreceptor level?
16:39 < kanzure> afterimages are not at the photoreceptor level
16:40 < fltrz> agree, give or take a few layers then
16:40 < kanzure> visual cortex layers
16:40 < kanzure> welp i'm wrong: ". After images occur because photochemical activity in the retina continues even when you are no longer experiencing the original stimulus.[1][2]"
16:41 < kanzure> "Newer evidence suggests there is cortical contribution as well.[3]"
16:41 < kanzure> [3] Shimojo, S; Kamitani, Y; Nishida, S (2001). "Afterimage of perceptually filled-in surface". Science. 293 (5535): 1677–80. PMID 11533495. doi:10.1126/science.1060161. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/293/5535/1677
16:42 < fltrz> kanzure: theres nothing wrong with studying from afterimages, Im just wondering, if you try to study a paragraph, why slow yourself down by flashing the lights on and off?
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16:43 < fltrz> Im not denying the possibility to read text from the afterimage
16:43 < kanzure> because physical lookup of information is slower than mental scan
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16:44 < kanzure> or: performance bounds of mental scan have not been as rigorously established as physical bounds of information lookup
16:44 < kanzure> and cognitive information access performance might be significantly more performant than physical lookup.  consider complex typed queries: can the brain generate internal imagery faster than it can generate a typed query to a keyboard?
16:46 < fltrz> it has all the hallmarks of defeating scientific rigorousity: how do you do a controlled trial? a person can be willing to be more focussed in the afterimage version as opposed to a daylight reading control version of the "study the paragraph" experiment
16:47 < fltrz> I, more questioning that it is in fact faster to read from the afterimage as opposed to a constantly lit paragraph
16:47 < kanzure> well back up a sec. i pasted a figure for world record for human exposure to and memorization (or at least visual processing of?) of digits is 48 bits in 1 second (a binary number). is this not a controlled trial? generate random number -> 1 second display -> get the person to squawk back the number?
16:47 < fltrz> the afterimage moves along, you can't focus on the peripheral parts of the text, while in daylight you can bring them into the fovea
16:47 < kanzure> well, sorry, s/controlled trial/controlled performance testing thing... i don't mean a clinical trial of course.
16:48 < superkuh> https://github.com/devnulling/MorseCodeMonitor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgkZ5QTDMZk (just for ref)
16:48 < fltrz> what I mean with a controlled experiment was, that one group tries the new method, and one group without the new method
16:49 < kanzure> i am somewhat confident that lots of people are unable to capture a 48-bit number given 1 second of exposure.
16:49 < fltrz> so am i
16:50 < Jenda`> superkuh: https://bellard.org/dvbt/
16:50 < kanzure> hmm bellard stuff.
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16:54 < kanzure> wat "Visible light induced ocular delayed bioluminescence as a possible origin of negative afterimage" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S101113441100087X#!
16:57 < kanzure> this seems like 0.1 seconds away from hameroff/penrose nonsense
16:57 < kanzure> or er.. pinker. i forget.
17:01 < fltrz> I think photographic memory can be trained though, but training works best if it is most "immediate" in multiple senses
17:02 < fltrz> i.e. you could reward yourself with a sip from some juice etc, but those neurons are many synapses away from the image processing neurons
17:03 < fltrz> a second approach would then be say a green or a red flash after (in)correctly recalling sufficient digits of a number flashed on screen
17:03 < fltrz> the problem is that for the image processing neurons, red and green probably do not carry a "good"/"bad" connotation
17:04 < fltrz> so I predict a more effective reward mechanism is using blur on the flashed number, the game starts with moderate blur, and every time you are wrong the blur radius increases, and every time you are correct the blur radius decreases
17:05 < fltrz> the image processing neurons will more likely "understand" this reward (the brain already optimizes to decrease blur anyway in order to correctly focus the eyes
17:07 < fltrz> I can imagine playing such a game for a prolonged period would encourage more sequential (i.e. storage/feedback) networks to be formed at the image processing levels
17:07 < fltrz> sequential in the sense of combinational vs sequential
17:08 < fltrz> it would also be less taxing as you wouldn't need to pay conscious attention to the result/score in the form of a conscious reward
17:08 < fltrz> wheither that is soom sugary water or a flashing color
17:08 < fltrz> *some
17:11 < fltrz> at some point it becomes too blurry and its "game over" at which point you try again
17:20 < fltrz> the delayed bioluminescence explanation is indeed nonsense, for the simple reason that it is well established that the afterimage is
17:21 < fltrz> negative, i.e. complementary color
17:21 < fltrz> so a red excitation photon... causes bioluminescence and produces higher energy green and blue photons? nonsense
17:25 < fltrz> unless you believe in some accidental superefficient second harmonic generation process that conspires to produce complementary color afterimages :)
17:27 < fltrz> so "During vision, the delayed photons in the eyes should be _NOT BE_ considered in vision research"
17:30 < kanzure> oh is that a quote from that document
17:30 < kanzure> oh, opposite. right. ok.
17:34 < kanzure> nasa did a study to test the 'photoreading' 25k wpm reading claims https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20000011599.pdf (negative result)
17:58 < fltrz> regarding the missing journalist from the submarine, why don't police just look at the telecom records to see if and where her cell phone ever connected to the network after she supposedly got back on land?
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18:58 < kanzure> docl: i think your method should be modified to add a head restraint and an object restraint so that there is no motion...
18:58 < kanzure> fltrz: it had only been 12 hours and i doubt telecoms are that responsive to law enforcement requests.
18:58 < kanzure> (even for missing persons?)
18:58 < fltrz> An idea that occurred to me (highly speculative, probably wrong), I was reading some text describing the synaptic vesicles, and how their membranes are recycled and travel back through the axons
18:59 < kanzure> many, many vesicles. ya.
18:59 < fltrz> so in old days of computer technology we used delay lines for short term memory (instead of current RAM)
19:00 < fltrz> it occured to me that these returning vesicles, that travel at a finite speed back to the neuron, form a kind of delay line
19:00 < fltrz> so this could potentially for a short term per axon memory
19:01 < fltrz> axons of different lengths and synaptic weights would effectively form a finite impulse response as well
19:03 < Storyteller> so like a bit bucket brigade?
19:03 < fltrz> so the neuron has theoretically access not only to the current dendritic inputs, but also to a short term delayed history
19:03 < fltrz> Storyteller: yeah
19:03 < Storyteller> k
19:05 < fltrz> but its just pure speculation
19:07 < fltrz> I also thought it was interesting to read that these vesicles contain reproducibly quantized amounts of neurotransmitter, and from the excitation at the postsynaptic dendrite, at least at low excitation levels the quantisation effect due to discrete number of vesicles is measurable
19:07 < Storyteller> interesting
19:07 < Storyteller> so Ca2+?
19:08 < fltrz> (its been a while when I read this, possibly it was referenced here, or on your guys pdf server)
19:08 < Storyteller> ampa? nmda?
19:08 < Storyteller> cool
19:08 < Storyteller> my battery is low, gtg
19:08 < Storyteller> ttyl
19:08 < fltrz> sure
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20:01 < fltrz> Im wrong about the vesicles in axon as delay line: according to wikipedia the vesicles are recycled and refilled at the synapse end of the presynaptic neuron, not travelling back through the axon at all
20:06 < fltrz> hmm wikipedia contradicts itself, because it does describe synaptic vesicle travel to soma here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axoplasmic_transport#Retrograde_transport
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