--- Log opened Thu Sep 07 00:00:11 2017
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00:59 < fenn> fltrz: ISI web of knowledge/web of science/science citation index hasn't been free for at least 15 years
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00:59 < fenn> fltrz: you might be able to do citation searches on google scholar or microsoft academic
01:00 < archels> http://www.ajnr.org/content/ajnr/29/4/632/F8.large.jpg
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01:15 < fenn> "Never before in the history of humanity have so many written so much while having so little to say to so few."
01:15 < fenn> boldly going...
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05:44 < kanzure> archels: what is the blue
05:51 < kanzure> "German software company Nero also filed complaints with the DOJ alleging that MPEG LA is illegally maintaining and enhancing its monopoly power by failing to adhere to the conditions of the DOJ Business Review Letter.  Nero points out that MPEG LA does not rely on independent experts as it said it would, but instead allows its membership to drive patent inclusion decisions.  Nero also argues ...
05:51 < kanzure> ...that MPEG LA did not offer the patents in question on fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms as required. ... continued oversight is necessary in the case of patent pools, especially when there is so much incentive for a pool to step outside the confines of approved activity, and to begin leveraging its unique market position anticompetitively."
05:51 < kanzure> the suggetion was made that MPEG-LA can be countered on the crispr-cas9 front by invoking the anti-trust laws
05:52 < kanzure> "Patent pools and the antitrust dilema" http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1478&context=yjreg (1999)
05:56 < kanzure> ugh 9am? https://www.autodesk.com/pier-9/workshop/rules-hours
05:57 < archels> kanzure: it's a neoplasm
05:57 < kanzure> are you dying
06:04 < archels> it's not me, I just thought it looked cool
06:04 < archels> ideally it would be a GIF and rotating in 3D
07:26 < fltrz> Hah "The analytical advantages of electrodeless discharge lamps used in the early days of atomic absorption spectrophotometry have today been matched or improved upon by the most recent developments in conventional hollow cathode lamp technology or by boosted discharge lamps. Cathodeon therefore feels unable to offer electrodeless discharge systems due to their low demand, limited range and high cost. "
07:27 < fltrz> manufacturers want to manufacture consumables
07:32 < archels> "In 1997, PQL Lighting introduced in the US the Superior Life Brand induction lighting systems. Most induction lighting systems are rated for 100,000 hours of use before requiring absolute component replacements."
07:32 < archels> 100k hours, that's quite impressive
07:34 < archels> "comparable to low quality LEDs of the 1970s"
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07:54 < fltrz> archels: yeah thats amazing
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09:17 < fltrz> oh no the video disappeared http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYg0CahSGCs it was someone machining (think CNC) a grain of rice, wanted to ask what kind of machine he used
09:17 < fltrz> how it was buit etc
09:21 < Wayfarer> with trump sized hands?
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09:32 < fltrz> Wayfarer: lol
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09:38 < kanzure> hmm
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10:35 < PresidentTrump> o.....0
10:36 < PresidentTrump> WHERE DO I BUY THE NUKES??
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10:37 <@fenn> no politics please
10:37 < PresidentTrump> thanks for not banning me
10:38 < PresidentTrump> what are we discussing in this channel
10:38 < PresidentTrump> the topic seems a little confusing
10:38 <@fenn> why are you even here then
10:39 < PresidentTrump> I was sent here from #freenode
10:39 < PresidentTrump> we were discussing criminal channels on freenode and someone mentioned this is a good place to buy nukes
10:40 < PresidentTrump> I'm assuming they were trolling and this is an innocent harmless channel
10:40 < kanzure> we only deal in **biological** weapons of mass destruction
10:41 <@fenn> intelligence enhancement drugs, genetically modified humans, DIY manufacturing and scientific instruments
10:41 <@fenn> i suppose these things could be made illegal at any time
10:41 < PresidentTrump> kanzure, hmmm. I have a friend whose shit must be classed as a biological weapon of mass destruction
10:42 < kanzure> fenn, i was talking with maaku yesterday and he was trying to convince me into making nanny grey goo ("microsoft clippy") for law enforcement of arbitrary physical regions :-(
10:47 <@fenn> well if the law is "don't die" then i'm fine with it
10:47 <@fenn> otherwise i'm not sure what "nanny grey goo" is supposed to mean
10:47 < kanzure> molecular nanotech friendly ai yadda yadda
10:48 < kanzure> to prevet harmful molecular nanotech unfriendly ai or something.. and other law breaking things. :-(
10:48 < PresidentTrump> how long until we can make a bioweapon that can do targeted assassinations ?
10:48 <@fenn> is there a way to gracefully exit this system?
10:49 < PresidentTrump> e.g. a cold that targets kim jong un ala stuxnet
10:49 < kanzure> don't think so, just have to deploy before they deploy, typical arms race nonsense
10:49 <@fenn> PresidentTrump: the secret service is already super paranoid about presidential DNA samples for this very reason
10:49 < kanzure> PresidentTrump: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/11/hacking-the-presidents-dna/309147/
10:49 < PresidentTrump> fenn, are you serious?!?
10:49 < PresidentTrump> I was just trolling
10:49 < PresidentTrump> this is actually a thing?!?!?
10:49 <@fenn> yep
10:49 < PresidentTrump> *mind blown*
10:50 <@fenn> well it could potentially be a thing, there's no actual evidence of such a weapon existing
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10:50 < PresidentTrump> omg this is incredible
10:50 <@fenn> but they still don't want people getting presidential DNA because they could target the hypothetical weapon more easily
10:50 < PresidentTrump> it is so easy to get a president's dna
10:50 <@fenn> seems to be a losing battle if you ask me, see gattaca for how hard it is to not leak DNA everywhere
10:51 < PresidentTrump> the president goes in public, shakes peoples hands
10:51 < PresidentTrump> not getting the dna is impossible!
10:51 < PresidentTrump> dennis rodman should have kju's dna!
10:51 <@fenn> a proactive biotech research project into enhanced immunity is the only realistic solution, and there are no indications anyone is actually funding such a thing
10:52 < PresidentTrump> isn't north korea big into bioweapons
10:52 < kanzure> that's red team
10:52 < PresidentTrump> didn't get kill kim jong nam with an illegal chemical?
10:53 < PresidentTrump> north korea killing the usa president isn't as bad as the usa killing the kim family
10:53 <@fenn> should mention that the "Cap'n Capsid" story is fiction
10:53 < PresidentTrump> the usa has a system for succession
10:53 < PresidentTrump> killing the kims is game over for the regime
10:53 < PresidentTrump> someone can install a peaceful puppet
10:54 < PresidentTrump> lets do it! we can recruit 4chan into the effort
10:54 < PresidentTrump> we'll save the world
10:54 < PresidentTrump> lets make a bioweapon that takes out the kim family
10:54  * fenn yawns
10:54 < PresidentTrump> who knows how to make a bioweapon?
10:55 <@fenn> scientists at bioweapon labs
10:55 <@fenn> not anyone i personally know
10:55 <@fenn> i suppose they are actually engineers, not scientists
10:55 < kanzure> *cough*
10:57 < PresidentTrump> shit kanzure is coughing! how do we know that isn't a bioweapon
10:57 <@fenn> natural bioweapon
10:57 <@fenn> for some reason that doesn't count
10:57 < PresidentTrump> fenn, we should have a law against natural bio weapons
10:58 <@fenn> i agree
10:58 <@fenn> anyone caught spreading germs should be summarily executed
10:58 <@fenn> furthermore, all humans should live in sterile bubble cities in space
10:59 < PresidentTrump> fenn, what about animals?
10:59 <@fenn> the easiest way to approach this would be to synthesize genomes from scratch in a completely sterile space habitat, and then initiate the kessler syndrome
11:00 <@fenn> thus limiting the spread of earth-based bioweapons into the rest of the universe
11:00 < PresidentTrump> "And according to a 2010 release of secret cables by WikiLeaks, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton directed our embassies to surreptitiously collect DNA samples from foreign heads of state and senior United Nations officials. " wtf!
11:00 <@fenn> political authority would come from UN "planetary protection" office as specified in the outer space treaty
11:00 < maaku> kanzure: it was a strongman proposal (if you really care about nanny ai outcomes as sing inst does, you'd do this instead)
11:01 < kanzure> right
11:01 < kanzure> oh, what? how is this actually different though?
11:02 < maaku> kanzure: decouples solution to the define-morality problem from implementation of nanny-ai
11:02 < kanzure> don't you still need basically agi for arbitrary-law-violation sensor data analysis and prevention?
11:03 < maaku> creating an iterate-and-test development platform instead of a it'd-better-work-the-first-time design
11:04 <@fenn> you need superintelligence because humans can't even interpret legal systems in the first place
11:04 < kanzure> legal system is not meant to be interpretable
11:07 < maaku> fenn: the idea is simple. a programatic language for specifying what physical actions are allowed in a region. a ledger for registering what law-program is in place for a given spatial region. a "dumb" AGI to enforce those laws
11:07 < kanzure> "The target should be figuring out how to systematically swap / label w. landing pads an entire vertebrate genome, e.g. zebrafish or mouse."
11:07 < maaku> I agree AGI is necessary, but not "human level". just a general planning intelligence
11:08 < kanzure> hmm.
11:08 < maaku> kanzure: is roconnor's email objections making any sense to you?
11:09 < kanzure> .title https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-September/014932.html
11:09 < yoleaux> [bitcoin-dev] Merkle branch verification & tail-call semantics for generalized MAST
11:09 < kanzure> this one? https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-September/014943.html
11:10 < kanzure> wtf
11:10 < kanzure> maaku: sounds like he's talking about a 'leaf node' that is also interpretable as a script. e.g. a collision in the bytes. and i guess he does't think leaf nodes have a byte specifying type?
11:23 < fltrz> anyone know a machining/metalworking/milling etc related IRC channel?
11:23 <@fenn> try #linuxcnc though it's primarily to support the CNC control software
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11:24 <@fenn> i may be able to answer your question
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12:12 < fltrz> fenn: thanks for the recommendation, lots of good ideas there
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12:34 < PresidentTrump> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1III07Eb1VM
12:39 < kanzure> .title
12:39 < yoleaux> EIC: Atul Khatri on Indians Traveling to America - YouTube
12:39 < kanzure> alright time for you to leave
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15:04 < kanzure> hmm
15:06 < nmz787> PresidentTrump: there is a town in Oregon called Dufur... odd thoughts everytime I see it on a map
15:07 < nmz787> also, you can't get container ship passenger tickets anymore... too much risk, not enough market for multi-week commutes (I checked years ago for these, thinking they'd be cheaper)
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15:11 < nmz787> wasn't that funny, and not hardly to channel topics at all :/
15:11 < nmz787> hardly related*
15:11 < nmz787> that sentence was messed up
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15:16 < kanzure> everything is that confusing
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17:05 < kanzure> hrm
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20:11 < fltrz> you guys knew that CD/DVD's for mass production, the master is often made photolithographically? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_manufacturing#Mastering
20:12 < fltrz> perhaps older generation "laser beam recorder"s for making the masters can be found cheapishly?
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21:26 < fltrz> does anyone know of a good database/resource/software for finding spectra of the elements? preferably with start and end states such that I can find cascades?
21:27 < fltrz> I know of the NIST atomic spectra database
21:27 < fltrz> but it seems they removed some functionality making it hard to find cascades
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21:37 < kanzure> probably crc handbook volume 892
21:44 < fltrz> I can't help but wonder what all the astronomers etc use, it is probably some machine readable dataset, i.e. to analyze spectra of different stars
21:45 < fltrz> I don't believe they're all using a specific crc handbook
21:46 < fltrz> NASA open data facade @ https://data.nasa.gov/ lots of pages from NASA show introductions to spectroscopy for elementary school kids, but then real data? no!
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21:51 < fltrz> ah.. they deleted their portal circa 2009-2010 about the same time university quality started to heavily deteriorate http://web.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://adc.gsfc.nasa.gov
22:01 < fltrz> used to be hosted at ftp://adc.astro.umd.edu/pub/adc for free
22:03 < fltrz> now its just GIMP with snapshots from the telescope https://www.astro.umd.edu/twiki/bin/view/AstroUMD/SoftWare
22:04 < fltrz> they lost the database? no one was interested anymore?
22:04 < fltrz> they dumb down on their own students so as to prevent precious data leaking to everywhere?
22:04 < fltrz> sorry for my rants
22:05 < fltrz> we've been going backwards almost a decade now
22:16  * PresidentTrump abducts nmz787
22:27 < fltrz> finally found it http://www.maa.clell.de/Cat/Vol4/6069/ the germans made a copy :P
22:43 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-Dltx5PME
22:43 < yoleaux> Haruhi's Flashback - YouTube
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22:57 < nmz787> fltrz: latest tech in CD mastering uses some sort of laser holography, then I believe electroforming to harden for 'stamping'
22:58 < nmz787> (stamping out copies)
22:58 < fltrz> nmz787: correct that was described on wikipedia
23:24 < fltrz> I found a machine readable NIST ASD atomic spectra database for a subset of the periodical table, but from 1993
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 08 00:00:12 2017