--- Log opened Thu Dec 07 00:00:36 2017
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03:36 < nsh> is sci-hub down?
03:36 < nsh> or is the UK being dicks
03:36 < nsh> or both
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03:47 < streety> what url are you using?
03:47 < streety> http://sci-hub.bz/ works but .cc doesn't
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03:54 < Jenda_> sci-hub.bz does not resolve for me
03:55 < Jenda_> and my nation-state should be only messing with DNS of "illegal lotteries" at least for now
03:56 <@fenn> it was behind cloudflare, so perhaps cloudflare is to blame
04:01 < eb3c90> Probably the registrar's doing.
04:05 < eb3c90> 80.82.77.83 is a historical IP address that gets somewhere that looks about right....
04:06 < eb3c90> YMMV
04:08 < eb3c90> https://twitter.com/Sci_Hub/status/933081884380278784
04:15 < eb3c90> @nsh: ^
04:19 < nsh> ty eb3c90
04:20 < nsh> someone should come up with a complementary naming system for https certificates in cases of DNS censorship
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05:08 < ebowden> http://slideplayer.com/slide/6149012/
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05:22 < ebowden> https://blogs.mentor.com/calibre/blog/2016/07/12/not-yet-a-fan-of-fan-out-why-you-should-be/
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05:33 < eb3c90> My first experiment in market based resource allocation: https://improvingautonomy.wordpress.com/2017/12/07/first-experiment
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05:42 < kanzure> https://fia.org/articles/open-letter-cftc-chairman-giancarlo-regarding-listing-cryptocurrency-derivatives
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06:00 < kanzure> rockefeller does +5 people/day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867741   might be competition for my data collection activities
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06:27 < JayDugger> Hm.
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06:58 < kanzure> maaku bitcoin rant thing https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7i3l0e/bitcoin_community_raises_over_700000_for_andreas/dqw3zi2/
07:03 < JayDugger> Huh.
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07:50 < ebowden> https://crowdsale.storiqa.com/?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=Storica_start_YouTube&utm_content=video_1&utm_term=youtube.com&gclid=CjwKCAiA6qPRBRAkEiwAGw4SdkFvPjhvH3lrXL8JyqaTDWd-ndbyweaZBNSM6lzG-KfWPH_xmR2eohoC15AQAvD_BwE
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07:50 < ebowden> No idea how reputable it is.
07:54 < kanzure> hm?
07:54 <@fenn> .title
07:54 < yoleaux> Storiqa
07:56 <@fenn> is it yet another ICO scam
07:57 < ebowden> Looks like one.
07:58 < ebowden> "Buy in now, the value will only increase!"
07:58 < ebowden> "We promise we'll have processing for conversion between fiat and crypto down-pat, totes mcgoats!"
07:58 < ebowden> THAT is a big issue.
07:59 <@fenn> i don't know why you're continuing to waste time looking at it
07:59 < ebowden> Well, mainly because I know there are shops that only accept crypto.
08:00 < ebowden> This is one of those things where they sprinkle in huge POTENTIAL utility, and gloss over the fatal flaws completely.
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10:48 < kanzure> http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/latest/blosxom/mozilla/extension/treestyletab/2017-10-03_migration-we-en.htm
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11:05 < nmz787> nsh: like encoding the website name into the IP address?
11:06 < nmz787> nsh: oh, nevermind, you asked about https certs, not IP addresses
11:08 < nsh> certificates are supposed to attest to identity as well as integrity, authentication, encryption, etc. but the identity is via a domain registration which creates a choke point that isn't really necessary
11:09 < nmz787> I was thinking more like some converter/encoder/decoder that simply mapped ASCII to IP addresses
11:09 < nmz787> so the sci-hub IP could be more easily memorized
11:11 < nmz787> or how about creating offline copies of DNS servers?
11:11 < nmz787> so you can just have some USB flash drive webbrowser that only sends IP addresses out
11:11 < nmz787> (using your local lookup to translate)
11:12 < nmz787> it'd only work for stable websites I guess, unless there was some out-of-band update mechanism (ham radio?)
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11:55 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15870181
11:55 < yoleaux> A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion | Hacker News
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13:08 < poppingtonic> feh
13:11 < kanzure> yeah well, it's not the most interesting but it'll do for a bit
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13:38 < juul> i talked to the 10k genes people yesterday and it looks like they're willing to synthesize entire vectors. i'm trying to create an open vector library from community requests/suggestions. please contact me here or via biobricks@juul.io if you have any input, e.g. if you need a specific shuttle vector which is too expensive / non-libre licensed
13:39 < juul> we're not posting on the diybio list yet since we're still improving the wetlab workflow in anticipation of scaling up synthesis operations
13:40 < kanzure> juul: probably a vector specific to agrobacterium would be popular...
13:41 < juul> i agree! i already got one request for such a vector. if you have any input on which features would be useful to have integrated let me know
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13:43 < kanzure> probably a beer-related one... not a priority to me tho.
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14:36 < eb3c90> Anyone know any good discussion places for AGI?
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14:39 < kanzure> if you want to talk to the decipels of eliezer yudkowsky, there's #lesswrong
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14:44 < eb3c90> Been there, done that. Mainly so I know what they would likely shout at me for trying to do.
14:44 < eb3c90> Although not tried the irc channel.
14:44 < eb3c90> Recently.
14:44 < kanzure> well if you need a dose of fearmongering, i'm sure they will be happy to oblige
14:44 < kanzure> but i think it's a waste of time
14:45 < kanzure> they are not good at implementing AGI things
14:45 < eb3c90> Have you seen their latest plans?
14:45 < kanzure> for AGI?
14:45 < eb3c90> Yeah.
14:46 < kanzure> i was not aware they had any-- they tend to focus on *stopping* people from working on important things
14:47 < eb3c90> https://intelligence.org/2017/12/01/miris-2017-fundraiser/ Skip to strategic background
14:47 < kanzure> "Ultimately, we want humanity to figure out the best possible long-run future and enact that kind of future, factoring in good outcomes for all sentient beings"
14:47 < kanzure> this usually means: "we are going to be militant and force people to stop working on unfriendly intelligences"
14:48 < eb3c90> They aren't planning on building AGI quite yet, but they are hiring software engineers to try and figure stuff out.
14:49 < kanzure> i'll believe it when i see it
14:49 < kanzure> they tend t obe more interested in "risk mitigation" and doing things is "risky"
14:50 < kanzure> really disappointd about lack of brain simulation (not even emulation!) in general out there
14:51 < eb3c90> Times seem to be changing.
14:52 < eb3c90> But yeah, still even if they are going to do something they will be trying to keep a " large enough lead " so are unlikely to talk to outsiders about what they are doing.
14:54 < eb3c90> More brains simulation would be good. I should really delve into neural plasticity again. see what, if anything, has being going on it.
14:55 < JayDugger> .title http://foc.us/
14:56 < yoleaux> focus - take charge™ tDCS & EEG Devices
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15:45 < maaku> .tell eb3c90 even charitably they are not so much interested in building AGI as building an intelligent agent that is slaved to its owners. ironically that means their prefered architectures for analysis are more scary than the biologically-inspired stuff that is actually likely to be built
15:45 < yoleaux> maaku: I'll pass your message to eb3c90.
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16:21 < kanzure> maaku: more scary how?
16:31 < maaku> kanzure: step one: make a an AGI architecture that is incapable of "thinking for itself" in terms of end-goals; step two: assign "generalized human morality" as that unbreakable goal
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16:32 < maaku> step one creates what MIRI actually fears, vs. less formalizable approaches to AI (generalized ML, or biologically inspired neural networks) that conceivably could learn to develop its own morality
16:33 < maaku> assuming you care about morality of course :)
16:34 < maaku> the MIRI approach is to make the AI provably safe, for some hand-wave definition of safe based on its coded meta-ethics.
16:34 < maaku> the Goertzel approach is to embody a proto-AGI as a robotic toddler and give it good parenting.
16:35 < maaku> the ##hplusroadmap approach is that morality is for losers? or something
16:36 < kanzure> oh you mean they should try to simulate a morality gland in the brain
16:36 < kanzure> instead of a formal proof system
16:37 < maaku> kanzure: well.. sort of. it's not like there's a "morality gland" of course, but that's the general idea. make it learn from examples (easy) and give it good, positive examples (a happy childhood with good teachers)
16:37 < kanzure> i think tht if you accurately simulate a mammalian brain, you will probably accidentally also simulate a sense of morality-- but you could probably remove it if you tried
16:37 < kanzure> (i don't mean emulation btw)
16:39 < kanzure> when will eliezer figure out that "morality DRM" is inherently evil
16:40 < kanzure> anyway.... old argument.  need moar simulators and results.
16:41 < maaku> no coincidence I think that MIRI is a bunch of 20-something, no-kids researchers and Goertzel's collaboration is a bunch of gray haired parents who have created general intelligences before ;)
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16:41 < kanzure> eliezer is old by now
16:42 < ebowden> "The all-purpose house service robot is guaranteed not to murder you in your sleep, so long as your order the morality DRM today!"
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16:44 < ebowden> *"The all-purpose house service robot is guaranteed not to murder you in your sleep, so long as you order the morality DRM today!"
16:45 < kanzure> ebowden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qdXkJVQUfM&t=1m10s
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16:48 < ebowden> I wonder if people will just engineer clever animals and sell them for that purpose eventually.
16:48 < kanzure> humans?
16:49 < maaku> ebowden: reynolds explores this in redemption ark
16:50 < ebowden> kanzure, maaku, imagine a little creature who's only purpose is the development of verified HPLC methods.
16:53 < mindsForge> o.o graduate students?
16:54 < ebowden> lol
16:54 < ebowden> No.
16:55 < mindsForge> ^.^;
16:56 < ebowden> It looks like a fat bandicoot with hands.
16:56 < kanzure> yeah sounds like grad students to me
16:56 < ebowden> lol
16:56 < ebowden> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_barred_bandicoot
16:56 < ebowden> There are a lot of these in my garden.
16:56 < mindsForge> I like it's snout
16:56 < mindsForge> does it ruin your garden or make it better?
16:57 < ebowden> Well, even in Tasmania you rarely get to see them.
16:57 < ebowden> Merely having them in the garden is a privilege in itself.
16:57 < mindsForge> wow, yeah I'm reading a little more about them, really down under
16:58 < ebowden> They dig up the lawn a lot.
16:58 < ebowden> (Lots of very small holes.)
16:58 < gradstudentbot> Are you published?
16:59 < ebowden> But they get rid of Corby grubs, which would kill the lawn otherwise.
17:00 < ebowden> http://lawngreen.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/grubs.jpg
17:01 < mindsForge> looks like a good sized meal for those bandicoots
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17:02 < mindsForge> well I hope the engineered bandicoots get their own labcoats
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17:28 < kanzure> https://github.com/google/kubeflow
17:28 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15873659
17:28 < yoleaux> Kubeflow – Machine Learning Toolkit for Kubernetes | Hacker News
17:29 < kanzure> .title http://www.righto.com/2017/12/decoding-air-conditioner-controls.html
17:29 < yoleaux> Decoding an air conditioner control's checksum with differential cryptanalysis
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18:08 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BoredSynBio/status/913430237228171264
18:08 < yoleaux> Can an academic lab hold an ICO? Asking for a friend. (@BoredSynBio)
18:08 < kanzure> ("bored george church")
18:09 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Y73kscmgc
18:09 < yoleaux> Funding Fever - YouTube
18:09 < gradstudentbot> Is that published?
18:12 < kanzure> completely.
18:27 < ebowden> mindsForge, little bandicoot people in lab coats would be incredibly cute.
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18:42 < maaku> kanzure: sure, just a general observation that I don't know how to define a consistent morality in which sentient or semi-sentient creatures are okay but slavery is not
18:42 < maaku> then again, I enslave my computer to do my bidding every time I type `make -j`
18:43 < mindsForge> that Funding Fever video is amazing
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18:50 < JayDugger> maaku, how do you consider the case of domesticated animals used as beasts of burden or livestock?
18:51 < JayDugger> Does that fall under the "I don't know how" part?
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18:51 < maaku> JayDugger: insuficient knowledge of animal neurology to determine, plus the "I don't know how" part. this is almost certainly the case for "domestic" elephants however
18:53 < JayDugger> I don't know if you can call elephants domesticated, as they don't breed in captivity. "Tamed" probably fits better here. I think I get your point though.
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19:15 < nmz787> juul: please make a kluyveromyces lactis to E.Coli vector, as well as an open version of pklac2 https://www.neb.com/products/n3742-pklac2-vector
19:16 < nmz787> juul: actually pklac2 is alreday a shuttle I guess
19:16 < nmz787> juul: so just an open version of that plz
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19:45 < kanzure> juul: do you know whether addgene ships their viruses/plasmids to home addresses? if they don't, then why not just pick their most popular items and do those?
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20:35 < juul> nmz787: ok will look into it
20:36 < juul> kanzure: good question. even if they do then they only ship under the UBMTA which disallows re-sharing with anyone after you get it
20:37 < juul> a funny side-effect of making things available under the OpenMTA is that the UBMTA has a clause where it cancels itself if the biomaterial becomes "generally available"
20:37 < juul> so anyone who got something under the UBMTA can suddenly redistribute it if the same thing becomes available under the OpenMTA
20:38 < juul> one issue with their plasmids is that they don't bother to patent-clear them
20:38 < juul> they operate in a legal gray area and only take things down if they get a cease and desist
20:39 < juul> but once you're openly sharing and resharing things then you're opening up not just yourself but lots of other folks to potential legal action
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20:46 < kanzure> hmm okay so we should go look for interesting stuff on addgene then
20:46 < kanzure> there's a lot of fancypnts GFP variants that they have listed, i'm sure that would be useful
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21:32 < juul> most GFP variants are still patented
21:32 < juul> but probably not all
21:33 < juul> GFP itself only expired in January
21:33 < juul> lens.org has their PatSeq search tool so that's the way to check
21:34 < juul> we're working on a setup where submitted sequences will be auto-checked, first against a database and then using a mechanical turk lawyer company
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 08 00:00:37 2017