--- Log opened Sat Dec 30 00:00:57 2017
00:22 < nmz787> http://www.goldn.co.uk/electroplating-support/how-to/gold-plating-on-plastic/
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02:03 < nmz787> http://addis.caltech.edu/research/On%20the%20Growth%20of%20Highly%20Ordered%20Pores%20in%20Anodized-Chem.%20Mater(1998).pdf
02:03 < nmz787> On the Growth of Highly Ordered Pores in Anodized Aluminum Oxide
02:04 < nmz787> .title http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6657810/
02:04 < yoleaux> Release of Iron Ions From the Stainless Steel Anode Occurring During High-Voltage Pulses and Its Consequences for Cell Electroporation Technology - IEEE Journals & Magazine
02:08 < nmz787> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Iana_Tsoneva/publication/245486291_Are_the_stainless_steel_electrodes_inter_Bioelectrochemistry_51/links/5628aa8108ae04c2aeaeb14c/Are-the-stainless-steel-electrodes-inter-Bioelectrochemistry-51.pdf
02:09 < nmz787> Are the stainless steel electrodes inert?
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02:30 <@fenn> apparently not
02:31 <@fenn> even platinum will corrode if used as an electrode
02:31 <@fenn> you could use carbon if you're worried about contamination
02:31 <@fenn> graphite
02:34 < nmz787> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Boris_Rubinsky/publication/6562176_Irreversible_Electroporation_A_New_Ablation_Modality_--_Clinical_Implications/links/0046352c049c68a98b000000/Irreversible-Electroporation-A-New-Ablation-Modality--Clinical-Implications.pdf
02:34 < nmz787> Irreversible Electroporation: A New Ablation Modality – Clinical Implications
02:39 < nmz787> fenn: no worries at the moment. Regarding carbon electrodes, do you know if it can be formed into different shapes (like a plate of carbon instead of a rod, etc)?
02:40 <@fenn> yes i have some graphite plates
02:40 <@fenn> you can't melt it
02:40 <@fenn> i think it's sintered together with copper powder?
02:43 <@fenn> no i made that up, it's just heated to 3000C
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05:42 < kanzure> irreversible electroporatio?
05:42 < kanzure> *electroporation?
06:06 < ebowden> I did not know it was normally reversible.
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06:30 < kanzure> well you turn it off and the holes go away
06:33 < ebowden> Oh, the holes themselves. Derp.
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07:01 < CaptHindsight> https://lifesciences.solutions/bioassemblybot/  $170K for an Epson robot with syringes
07:01 < yoleaux> 25 Dec 2017 07:43Z <adlai> CaptHindsight: wouldn't it be much easier to employ the spiders GOD gave you rather than try to reverse insect brains?
07:02 < CaptHindsight> https://lifesciences.solutions/product/microvessels/  $130.00 – $990.00
07:03 < CaptHindsight> and it's from Kentucky
07:04 < CaptHindsight> sorry $160K  https://www.asme.org/engineering-topics/articles/bioengineering/a-robot-that-prints-tissue
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07:32 < kanzure> seems overpriced
07:37 < CaptHindsight> heh
07:38 < CaptHindsight> I didn't know that Dean Kamen had gotten funded to start a organ farm
07:41 < CaptHindsight> it's the bot they are using
07:41 < CaptHindsight> https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-os/biomedical/devices/dean-kamen-announces-organbuilding-institute
07:41 < CaptHindsight> sorry Organ Building Institute
07:56 < CaptHindsight> looks like they got a patent on the robot with syringes
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12:39 < xiuaa> |
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12:46 < nmz787> yeah irreversible meaning the holes don't close back up I guess... the aim was to selectively kill certainly cells, and then they saw the organs recovered within ~2 weeks, indicating they only killed the selected cells, and not like, nearby vascularization (because killing blood vessels would mean MUCH longer recovery time than 2 weeks)
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14:30 < SkunkFox> I'm a good boy, right?
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16:42 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16035402
16:42 < yoleaux> Ask HN: What was the best CS paper you read in 2017? | Hacker News
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17:05 < kanzure> ".. biotech firm CRISPR Therapeutics became the first to submit a clinical trial application to European regulators. Tests are set to begin next year for its therapy that combines CRISPR gene editing and stem cell therapy to treat the blood disorder beta thalassemia"
17:07 < kanzure> "Harvard geneticist Church said CRISPR may be due for a “reality check.” For example, he said, families may decide to undergo genetic counseling before having kids to assess their risk of passing on genetic diseases, rather than having children and treating them with “CRISPR therapies likely to be $1 million per dose.”"
17:07 < kanzure> pfft why is church setting such a high price?
17:08 < kanzure> https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2017/12/bioviva-illustrates-the-tension-between-progress-and-regulation/
17:08 < kanzure> "Imagine if someone really kicked the hornets nest by offering a mail order kit for DMD gene editing via intra-muscular injection? DMD parents are already just about ready to march on the FDA with torches."
17:11 < kanzure> https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-9105-coming_soon_machine-checked_mathematical_proofs_in_everyday_software_and_hardware_development
17:25 < kanzure> youtube has censored the "adolf hitler anime opening" video >:-( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4JXvP-yHbw
17:30 < streety> Is that $1m for genetic therapy after birth?
17:31 < kanzure> honestly medical care in the US is mispriced in many ways, so it's probably $1m before birth AND $1m after birth, even if the procedure is IVF-only or in utero only
17:33 < streety> regardless of the regulatory mess I think it is likely a designer baby will be cheaper than gene therapy after birth. At least for gene therapy as effective as correcting a mutation during IVF
17:33 < kanzure> prices are totally divorced from the reality of the procedures.
17:34 < kanzure> maybe someone will offer it at the cost of the proteins and lab time for IVF
17:34 < streety> I'm not sure I agree with that but even if they *totally* were I would still rather treat pre-emptively rather than after the damage has begun
17:36 < kanzure> dunno if you saw, but nmz787 was proposing sperm modification instead of IVF + crispr
17:36 < kanzure> and f7 was proposing sperm + RNA interference or something
17:38 < kanzure> if you want to be absolutely sure, then IVF is the obvious choice, but sperm modification is going to be way easier than IVF and the other assorted details with ,say, embryo implantation stuff
17:39 < streety> I missed that conversation
17:40 < streety> I need to look into sperm modification. Is it limited to correcting mutations in the father?
17:40 < streety> Mainly going to be recessive mutations so probably doesn't matter
17:40 < kanzure> i'm not sure actually; i think we can deliver other molecules with the sperm probably? i dunno if anyone has tried.
17:41 < kanzure> "sperm transfection" probably has some search results...
17:41 < streety> would be interesting approach to use sperm as a delivery mechanism to correct abnormalities in the egg
17:42 < kanzure> one of the downsides i see here is that it's going to be probabilistic- can't really select sperm individually that got the tranfection payload...... dunno.
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17:43 < kanzure> "Uptake of exogenous DNA by mammalian spermatozoa: specific localization of DNA on sperm heads" http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/96/1/203.full.pdf
17:44 < kanzure> "When mouse spermatozoa were briefly exposed in culture to radioactively labelled DNA (pSV2CAT plasmid), radioactivity could be detected by high-resolution autoradiography on the surface and within the ucleus of the spermatozoa."
17:44 < kanzure> welp there you go
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17:45 < streety> oh you are thinking of transfecting the mature sperm. The other way to go would be modification of spermatogonial stem cells ex vivo, selection, and then use of the subsequent sperm
17:47 < kanzure> "Whereas transfer to the sperm nucleus would appear to be the obvious requirement for foreign DA molecules to be carried into the egg at fertilization, DNA bound to the sperm surface may, in principle, be equally important in this phenomenon. Transfer of sperm-surface molecules into the egg ytoplasm has been clearly shown by immunofluorescence in fertilized sea urchin eggs (Gundersen et al., ...
17:47 < kanzure> ...1986)."
17:48 < kanzure> "It is know nthat at fertilization the apical sperm membrane and the equatorial segment nof the acrosome are not incorporated into the egg plasma membrane (as the rest of the sperm membrane is), but are intenralized by the egg as a composite vesicle, made up of spermatozoa and egg membranes (rabbit: Bedford, 1972; hamster: Yanagimachi & Noda, 1970; Clark & Koehler, 1990; man: Sathananthan et ...
17:48 < kanzure> ...al., 1986). The fate of such vesicles is unknow, but they might act as DNA carriers into the egg, not only nof DNA bound to the sperm membrane, but also by entrapping DA in solution in the culture medium."
17:57 < kanzure> "Sperm-mediated gene transfer: applications and implications" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Corrado_Spadafora/publication/215957757_Sperm-mediated_gene_transfer_applications_and_implications/links/54734dbc0cf216f8cfaedb56/Sperm-mediated-gene-transfer-applications-and-implications.pdf
17:58 < kanzure> ahahaha:
17:58 < kanzure> "Foreign DNA introduced into the vas deferens is gained by mammalian spermatozoa" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1098-2795(199809)51:1%3C42::AID-MRD5%3E3.0.CO;2-W/full
17:59 < kanzure> perfect.
18:02 < kanzure> "Direct injection of foreign DNA into mouse testis as a possible in vivo gene transfer system via epididymal spermatozoa" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mrd.1130/full
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19:08 < jrayhawk> oh joy, jolla is promoting an ICO scam
19:09 < jrayhawk> i guess if your business fails, you can always burn your brand for money
19:20 < kanzure> "The negative effects of exogenous DNA binding on porcine spermatozoa are caused by removal of seminal fluid" https://kops.uni-konstanz.de/bitstream/handle/123456789/6707/Kang_2008_Theriogenology.pdf?sequence=1n
19:21 < kanzure> .wik intracytoplasmic sperm injection
19:21 < yoleaux> "Intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI, pronounced /ɪksiː/, IK-see) is an in vitro fertilization (IVF) procedure in which a single sperm cell is injected directly into the cytoplasm of an egg. This technique is used in order to prepare the gametes for the obtention of embryos that may be transferred to a maternal uterus." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intracytoplasmic_sperm_injection
19:22 < kanzure> hmm "Spermatozoa isolated from cat testes retain their structural integrity as well as a developmental potential after refrigeration for up to 7 days"n
19:26 < jrayhawk> oh, great, stskeeps is one of the scammers
19:26 < jrayhawk> well, that's depressing
19:27 < kanzure> "Nanoparticles as a tool for transfection and transgenesis - A review" https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/aoas.2016.16.issue-1/aoas-2015-0077/aoas-2015-0077.pdf
19:29 < kanzure> "Developing a puncture-free in ovo chicken transfection strategy based on bypassing albumen nucleases" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0093691X16306070
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20:41 < kanzure> why is brian hanley asking for $6 million for his gene therapy stuff?
20:58 < kanzure> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/how-bulletproofs-could-make-bitcoin-privacy-less-costly/
21:17 < kanzure> of course, tudor knows brian... of course he does. hm.
21:18 < kanzure> "Last year he wanted 25 million for a gene therapy manufacturing company, plasmids for ectopic expression"
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21:35 < kanzure> ah the money was because he wants FDA approval of the facility
21:37 < kanzure> anyway the testis-mediated gene therapy stuff seems to have low effiency :-/
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21:47 < kanzure> "serial AAV to deliver crispr components and gene therapy at the end of the sequence" etc etc
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 31 00:00:58 2017