--- Log opened Tue Jan 02 00:00:00 2018
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00:06 < nmz787> http://41j.com/blog/2016/01/speculation-on-the-illumina-firefly/
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03:33 < kanzure> .wik transfer learning
03:33 < yoleaux> "Transfer learning or inductive transfer is a research problem in machine learning that focuses on storing knowledge gained while solving one problem and applying it to a different but related problem. For example, knowledge gained while learning to recognize cars could apply when trying to recognize trucks." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_learning
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08:24 < kanzure> lightning network developer tutorial thing http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/nnnnnnnnnnn
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09:03 < andytoshi> are there any scifi books about what'd happen if everybody left earth for some other planet and the remaining biosphere kept evolving without them?
09:04 < kanzure> orionsarm.com probably has a thing about this
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10:06 < JayDugger> Orion's Arm did have that, although it has had at least one major revision since I last looked.
10:07 < JayDugger> When I looked at it, humans had been forced off the planet by an AI defender of the ecosystem.
10:07 < JayDugger> (Yeah, dumb. It was popular at the time.)
10:08 < JayDugger> Dougal Dixon's "After Man" and "Man After Man" also apply here.
10:09 < JayDugger> If you relax the requirement from biological evolution to cultural evolution, then Haldeman's "The Forever War" and Lem's "Return from the Stars" both apply.
10:14 < JayDugger> You'd think it would show up in Stapledon's Last and First Men, but no.
10:15 < JayDugger> It does show up in Zebrowski's SF: Macrolife, Cave of Stars (?), and the Omega Point trilogy, but doesn't rise to a major theme in any of the books.
10:18 < JayDugger> Evolution continuing as intelligent species move on and off planets also shows up in Brin's Uplift books, but again, not as a major theme.
10:21 < JayDugger> kanzure Thanks. (Can't message for some reason) Shall I proofread it?
10:23 < andytoshi> awesome, thanks
10:23 < kanzure> JayDugger: up to you.
10:23 < JayDugger> You're welcome Happy reading.
10:23 < kanzure> JayDugger: just thought you should know about it
10:32 < poppingtonic> Part of the plot in Greg Egan's Diaspora involves a group of humans "fleshers" who intentionally went full paleo even when everyone else was getting uploaded and otherwise becoming posthuman, leaving earth.
10:36 < JayDugger> Yeah, good call.
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11:19 < nmz787> kanzure: I was told sperm are transcriptically inactive... not sure if that messes up your FACS search idea
11:20 < nmz787> i.e. you won't be able to express GFP post-SMGT
11:20 < nmz787> .wik smgt
11:20 < yoleaux> "Super Mario Galaxy 2[a] is a platforming video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Wii. It was first announced at E3 2009 and is the sequel to Super Mario Galaxy. It was released worldwide in 2010, and is the fourth original 3D platformer in the Super Mario series, after Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMGT
11:20 < nmz787> .wik sperm mediated gene transfer
11:20 < yoleaux> "Sperm-mediated gene transfer (SMGT) is a transgenic technique that transfers genes based on the ability of sperm cells to spontaneously bind to and internalize exogenous DNA and transport it into an oocyte during fertilization to produce genetically modified animals.1 Exogenous DNA refers to DNA that originates outside of the organism." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm-mediated_gene_transfer
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12:50 <@fenn> you would sort the blastocysts with FACS right? but wouldn't that make the resulting human green? perhaps it would be wiser to label only a certain cell type, for example the trophoblast cells
12:51 < kanzure> not blastocytes
12:51 < kanzure> spermatozoa
12:51 <@fenn> they don't express the GFP though
12:52 < kanzure> you can have the GFP flying around on the outer membrane
12:52 < kanzure> doesn't need to be expressed by the spermatozoa specifically
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13:01 <@fenn> what's it called when you do something like PCR to find the location of a gene you integrated into the genome?
13:02 < kanzure> gene mapping?
13:03 < kanzure> .wik gene mapping
13:03 < yoleaux> "Gene mapping describes the methods used to identify the locus of a gene and the distances between genes." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_mapping
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13:23 < nmz787> .wik fluorescent in situ hybridization
13:23 < yoleaux> "Fluorescent in situ hybridization (FISH) is a molecular cytogenetic technique that uses fluorescent probes that bind to only those parts of the chromosome with a high degree of sequence complementarity." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_in_situ_hybridization
13:23 < nmz787> fenn that? ^
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13:28 <@fenn> that's better, but still not really what i was thinking
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13:28 <@fenn> i was thinking something like a rolling circle amplification on bits of chopped up genome, that way you get the sequence next to the gene of interest
13:29 <@fenn> sure it would be nice to know what chromosome it's on and the rough location, but it's not really important is it?
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14:09 < juul> kanzure: nope sorry
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14:56 < kanzure> fenn: for adding in genes, not super important to know where it ends up, but you can target a chromosome location anyway.  what you really want to do is add a bunch of promoters.
15:24 < kanzure> "an inexpensive DIY 3d cone display thing" https://roxanneluo.github.io/PeppersCone.html
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16:01 < juri_> 'code will be open sourced soon'
16:09 < kanzure> stare at them, don't blink, until they release
16:23 < JayDugger> How do they steady the plastic film ?
16:28 < JayDugger> And that weird color change...
16:31 < JayDugger> Pretty neat.
16:43 < nmz787> JayDugger: they say the coin was used for weight/stabilization
16:43 < nmz787> nice trick, but not sure how it's going to compare with i.e. VR
16:43 < nmz787> (oculus type stuff)
16:44 < nmz787> I could see looking at something like that maybe twice if it were at a mall spouting advertisements at me
16:44 < nmz787> or maybe, in a hospital or something, at least two people can simultaneously look at the images, which isn't as easy with headset/goggles
16:45 < nmz787> you can also show it to people who are disabled (like someone who's all rigged up due to a broken back/neck... you wouldn't want to try fitting a VR headset to them I guess)
16:50 <@fenn> i think it only works for one viewer
16:50 < JayDugger> Right, simultaneous viewers of a volume of interest: CT scans, MRI, radar return, sonar return,
16:50 <@fenn> not sure how it knows where that viewer is located though
16:50 < JayDugger> Yeah...looks as if it distorts pretty fast.
16:51 < JayDugger> I don't think the display knows, I think it just has  a small "sweet spot." Perhaps the paper makes that clear.
16:51 < JayDugger> The bit at the end of the video hints more than tells.
16:51 <@fenn> well then you don't need the cone at all
16:52 <@fenn> i guess it's for cute R2D2 things
16:53 < JayDugger> Yeah, the nickel stabilizes the cone against stray motion, and I think the 0.5mm thickness (see paper) probably gives it enough stiffness to resist flutter or the like.
17:28 < kanzure> music! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9pgIVcB3rk
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19:17 < CaptHindsight> did I miss anything?
19:20 < CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1f7vY1bMNc  looks like what they mostly done is develop CAD/CAM software for tissues
19:22 < CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xdqRnXx0qk  TSIM & BioAssemblyBot Workflow
19:25 < kanzure> i'm gonna need an inkjet (but not for synthesis, just deposit of some chemicals)
19:25 < CaptHindsight> inkjets are picky
19:26 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: we'd need to deposit dNTPs
19:26 < CaptHindsight> fluids are formulated to match the printheads
19:27 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: like this https://www.neb.com/products/n0447-deoxynucleotide-dntp-solution-mix
19:27 < CaptHindsight> sometimes you get lucky or you have to make due with what heads you have access to
19:28 < kanzure> here is the structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxycytidine_triphosphate
19:28 < kanzure> also i sent a thing to you in PM
19:30 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: will you be aroudn in 10 minutes?
19:30 < CaptHindsight> Each vial contains 8 μmol in a volume of 0.8 mls
19:31 < CaptHindsight> glanced at the pdf
19:31 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: I should be in in 10 minutes
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19:31 < kemmishtree> hey who is here?
19:32 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: kemmishtree is looking at inkjetting of dNTPs
19:34 < kemmishtree> who uses inkjet printers to make oligos for sale?
19:35 < CaptHindsight> I make custom ones
19:35 < kanzure> kemmishtree: not sure. but this is the project i keep referencing, http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/
19:36 < kemmishtree> ah okay
19:36 < CaptHindsight> tiny quantities of expensive fluids to jet
19:36 < kanzure> can you help us estimate cost of optimizing dNTPs to be jetted out of inkjets?
19:36 < kemmishtree> what's the lower bound for volume that can reprodicibly be dispensed to within say 80% accuracy/precision?
19:37 < CaptHindsight> you just want a few drops in a few places?
19:37 < kanzure> i told him we could do 50 picoliters (or less?) at 1200x1200 dpi
19:37 < CaptHindsight> well there are 1pL nozzles for <$1k
19:38 < kemmishtree> um, we'd want very large dense arrays, but I'm curious why that affects drop size?
19:38 < CaptHindsight> 1-2pL
19:38 < kemmishtree> so, that's not $1K/nozzle, right?
19:38 < CaptHindsight> depends
19:39 < CaptHindsight> I'm trying to see what you would like vs what's affordable
19:39 < kanzure> the project is bottlenecked by firing rate and density
19:39 < kanzure> and minimizing drop size
19:39 < CaptHindsight> well an Epson head comes in a $100 printer with ~4pL drop volumes and 360 nozzles....
19:40 < CaptHindsight> but it holds several CC's of fluid just to prime
19:40 < kanzure> we will have many liters available for priming
19:40 < kemmishtree> we want a system that deposits a billion one-picoliter drops per second across a matrix of one billion spots.  i.e., each of a billion spots get one single-picoliter drop each second.
19:41 < kemmishtree> and we only need two different "inks"
19:41 < CaptHindsight> what spacing between spots?
19:41 < kanzure> spacing might not matter to us.... dealer's choice?
19:41 < kanzure> it has to be practical
19:41 < CaptHindsight> does it matter as long as it's repeatable?
19:41 < kemmishtree> the spacing is not so important, as Bryan says
19:41 < kanzure> repeatability is very important
19:42 < kanzure> especially if the head moves
19:42 < kanzure> if the head doesn't move then repeatability isn't too important
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19:42 < CaptHindsight> billion drops means either moving heads or substrate
19:43 < CaptHindsight> don't worry about repeatability
19:43 < kanzure> basically we need to print to the same spots repeatedly, a few million times
19:43 < CaptHindsight> yeah
19:43 < CaptHindsight>  got it
19:44 < kanzure> v. interested in design/engineering cost estimate for v1 machine, and costs per machine after that (even if it's just napkin estimate that might be a little high)
19:45 < CaptHindsight> https://global.kyocera.com/prdct/printing-devices/inkjet-printheads/index.html
19:46 < kanzure> if it costs $50k for a first machine, is there any chance that future machines could be made for $5k? etc.
19:46 < CaptHindsight> 1.5pL drop, 64khz firing freq, 5312 nozzles per head
19:47 < CaptHindsight> ~334 Million drops per second for one head
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19:47 < kemmishtree> okay so we need three heads
19:48 < kanzure> we can add as many heads as we wantn
19:48 < CaptHindsight> if you really want a billion
19:48 < kemmishtree> to do a billion per second--but what's the pitch?  and what form factor for the "paper" would be best
19:48 < CaptHindsight> x2 for two different fluids
19:48 < CaptHindsight> so 6 printheads
19:49 < CaptHindsight> print width is 112.44mm for each head
19:49 < CaptHindsight> 21um pitch
19:50 < CaptHindsight> nozzle pitch
19:50 < CaptHindsight> in inches 1200 x 1200 drops per inch
19:50 < kemmishtree> so 112.44 mm width... that would be 5311 spots?
19:50 < CaptHindsight> yes
19:51 < kemmishtree> okay, gotcha.  And cost of a 6 head systems?
19:51 < CaptHindsight> if we have 3 heads side by side for each "ink"
19:52 < CaptHindsight> then X will be 112.44mm x 3 = 337.32mm
19:53 < kemmishtree> do you know how long it takes 1.5 pL of water to evaporate?
19:53 < CaptHindsight> and if we print square then 337.32 x 337.32mm
19:53 < CaptHindsight> depends on temp
19:54 < kemmishtree> so an added wrinkle, we might want the "paper" to have a thin sheet of solution covering it
19:54 < CaptHindsight> so ~13 x 13 inches
19:54 < CaptHindsight> printing on a non porous substrate?
19:55 < CaptHindsight> sheet of liquid or liquid in a porous sheet?
19:56 < CaptHindsight> how long between fluid passes? time between layers?
19:56 < kemmishtree> um, it's a little weird, but just for the sake of engineering talk... could we "print", deposit the droplets, onto a liquid surface?  (nevermind why we might want to for now...)
19:57 < CaptHindsight> the drops eject at a pretty high velocity
19:57 < kemmishtree> each spot gets hit once per second ideally
19:57 < CaptHindsight> few meters per second
19:57 < kemmishtree> the high velocity could be good
19:57 < kemmishtree> the substrate might be porous, yes, or non-porous.  don't know yet
19:57 < CaptHindsight> thats really the limiting factor with firing speeds
19:57 < CaptHindsight> the piezos can fire to MHz frequencies
19:57 < kemmishtree> what's the limiting factor with firing speeds?
19:58 < CaptHindsight> but the drops can only eject so fast
19:58 < kanzure> piezo electronics and droplet miniscus formation
19:58 < CaptHindsight> thats how one size nozzle produces multiple drop sizes
19:58 < kemmishtree> wait, you're saying the piezos can be activated faster than the meniscus can form, right?
19:58 < CaptHindsight> short burst of drops that combine together in flight
19:59 < CaptHindsight> yes
19:59 < kemmishtree> so is printing faster with smaller drop sizes?
19:59 < CaptHindsight> yes
19:59 < kemmishtree> if we wanted bigger drops would the heads be slower
19:59 < kemmishtree> okay
19:59 < kemmishtree> gotcha
19:59 < CaptHindsight> yes
20:00 < kemmishtree> and, technologically, is sub-picoliter inket printing on the horizon?
20:00 < CaptHindsight> whatever you want to pay for
20:00 < CaptHindsight> how slow can we make the 13" pass for each layer?
20:01 < CaptHindsight> 80m/minute is the top speed
20:01 < kanzure> well you said meters per second? that's more than enough for what kemmishtree is doing.
20:01 < kemmishtree> every spot needs to get hit at least once per second, presumably.
20:01 < kanzure> yeah up to 10 times/second, not 1k/second
20:01 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: that was about drop ejection velocity
20:02 < kanzure> 80m/min is 1 meter/sec?
20:02 < CaptHindsight> 80m/minute is the top speed at whwich the heads or substrate may travel at 1200 dpi
20:02 < CaptHindsight> two different things
20:03 < CaptHindsight> distance from printhead to substrate will be ~1mm
20:03 < CaptHindsight> nozzle plate to substrate ~1mm
20:04 < kemmishtree> can acetone be printed?
20:05 < kemmishtree> on the other end, at what point does viscosity become a problem for a given ink?
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20:06 < CaptHindsight> Optimum Ink Viscosity [mPa*s]  5.5-6
20:06 < CaptHindsight> water is 1mPas
20:06 < kemmishtree> also... if I wanted to buy the super-simplest, cheapest, most-idiot proof inkjet printing system for just two different inks, what could I buy?  (bare bare minimum of work required to be able to print two different inks that are mostly water.)
20:06 < CaptHindsight> flatbed?
20:07 < kemmishtree> wait, so it's actually better to have something more viscous than water?  why is that?  I thought that would make things slower
20:07 < kemmishtree> yeah with a flatbed, so I can do some simple tests with some biomolecular inks on a flat substrate, if that's what you mean.
20:07 < CaptHindsight> because inks are not just water
20:08 < kemmishtree> strong emphasis on not wanting to have to build or customize anything if possible, but the simplest, dumbest possible experimental setup that's not just me pipetting
20:09 < kemmishtree> Safe to assume that water prints faster than printer inks?
20:09 < CaptHindsight> water, dye or pigment, bacteriacide, humectant, glycol etc
20:09 < CaptHindsight> if the viscosity is too low then it won't produce nice drops
20:09 < CaptHindsight> they might be odd sizes and shapes
20:09 < CaptHindsight> same for too high a viscosity
20:10 < kemmishtree> I would be printing nucleotide solutions
20:10 < CaptHindsight> off the shelf printheads are made for a target market
20:10 < CaptHindsight> graphic arts, banners, documents and the inks that go with them
20:11 < CaptHindsight> everything else is not on their radar
20:11 < CaptHindsight> I posted those Kyocera heads as an example
20:11 < CaptHindsight> acetone has a pretty high vapor pressure
20:12 < CaptHindsight> straight acetone at 25C might be a little tricky for standard heads
20:13 < CaptHindsight> I'll be back in a few minutes
20:13 < kanzure> thanks captain
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20:13 < kemmishtree> are you aware of anyone who has inkjet printed dNTPs (specifically, as opposed to phosphoramidites, etc.)?
20:15 < kanzure> he has stepped offline for a few moments
20:15 < kanzure> and he can't see your messages now
20:15 < kemmishtree> this is great
20:16 < kemmishtree> but I also need to step away for the night and have some time to daydream about it
20:16 < kemmishtree> I need to think about these numbers and what they mean
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20:22 < MrHindsight> back
20:22 < MrHindsight> a 6 head system would be ~$250K with those heads
20:23 < MrHindsight> there are some ChinaCo flatbed printers that use the Epson heads but repeatability is awful to none
20:24 < MrHindsight> a few people got them and they could get them to make multiple passes over the same spots
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20:24 < MrHindsight> sorry could not get
20:24 < MrHindsight> they are more of a t-shirt printer or knick knacks
20:25 < kemmishtree> ah okay... how much are they?  how complex is it to make your own "ink" cartridge?
20:25 < kemmishtree> wouldn
20:25 < kemmishtree> twouldn't care much about precision or spacing, I mean just for proof of concept work
20:25 < MrHindsight> chinaco flatbed?
20:25 < MrHindsight> not sure how you'd get them working with what you want
20:26 < MrHindsight> they take several CC's to prime
20:26 < kemmishtree> that wouldn't be a problem
20:26 < MrHindsight> no way to get them to align themselves to previous print passes
20:27 < kemmishtree> ah okay
20:27 < MrHindsight> that was the issue people had when they came back to me after trying
20:28 < MrHindsight> on top of the lash they had in the mechanics
20:28 < kemmishtree> I just want to make sure we've got data for what we're doing that's based on an inkjet nozzling event, however crude, before we would have a $150K instrument built.  I mean, a $100 inket non-flatbed printer might be fine for that
20:28 < MrHindsight> belt drive XY Cartesian system
20:28 < kemmishtree> but flatbed would be better
20:28 < kemmishtree> yes belt drive XY Cartesian system
20:28 < MrHindsight> you can try hacking an off the shelf epson
20:29 < kemmishtree> can we buy one pre-hacked?
20:29 < kemmishtree> or pay for the hacking?
20:29 < MrHindsight> thats what the ChinaCo units are
20:29 < MrHindsight> but no open firmware
20:30 < MrHindsight> you just send a image and hit print
20:30 < kemmishtree> so could I literally just buy an empty ink cartridge and fill out?  or would it be obvious taking it apart how to attach my custom ink?
20:31 < MrHindsight> for example  https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Digital-Inkjet-LED-UV-Flatbed-PCB_60554738760.html?spm=a2700.7724857.main07.71.400c7b07NR6cLK
20:32 < kanzure> can we just have MrHindsight do it. would he be interested?
20:32 < MrHindsight> the epson heads use a 20-30mL cartridge
20:33 < MrHindsight> http://www.kopykake.com/store/image.php?type=P&id=120
20:33 < kemmishtree> to make us something super-hacky and simple that we can just use for basic experiments, hoping to justify a bigger expenditure later on the real deal?
20:33 < MrHindsight> that holds just the fluid
20:33 < MrHindsight> it plugs into the heads
20:34 < kemmishtree> ah so I could just buy those and clean the hell out of them?  or can they be purchased empty?
20:34 < MrHindsight> you can find empties in the refill kits
20:35 < MrHindsight> also the chip restters
20:35 < MrHindsight> resetters
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20:35 < kemmishtree> what is a chip resetter?
20:35 < MrHindsight> they have an ID chip that counts drops
20:35 < MrHindsight> so it stops printing after a given number of drops no matter how much ink is left
20:36 < kemmishtree> is that a good engineering choice for some reason or just a way to increase revenue?
20:37 < MrHindsight> it's about revenue
20:37 < MrHindsight> ink cost $3/L and they sell it for $4k/L in little cartridges
20:38 < MrHindsight> thats why they give the printers away
20:38 < kemmishtree> do they actually lose money if the person never buys ink?
20:38 < MrHindsight> yeah
20:39 < MrHindsight> $40 is less than the cost to build
20:39 < kemmishtree> have you printed electronics?
20:39 < MrHindsight> yeah
20:39 < kemmishtree> any cool projects with printed electronics?
20:40 < kanzure> "Inkjet printing of micro-electro-mechanical systems (MEMS)" http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/mems/Inkjet%20printing%20of%20micro-electro-mechanical%20systems%20(MEMS)%20-%202017.pdf
20:40 < MrHindsight> inkjet is a real paranoid NDA industry
20:40 < MrHindsight> I recently signed an NDA with an older supplier I had not dealt with in a while and they only sent me marketing data sheets
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20:41 < MrHindsight> they didn't want to send me a dozen or so pdf's without 1,000 more questions
20:41 < kemmishtree> would we use on-demand or continous print heads?
20:41 < MrHindsight> like he had to carry the pdf's up from his basement to send them  :)
20:42 < kemmishtree> MrHindSight are you one of the authors on that MEMS paper?
20:42 < MrHindsight> on demand
20:42 < kanzure> no
20:44 < MrHindsight> the lowest cost system I could cobble together might be ~$25K
20:45 < MrHindsight> Epson heads on a XY table with <10um repeatability
20:46 < kanzure> cool
20:46 < MrHindsight> how long depends on how busy I am and what parts i have in stock
20:48 < MrHindsight> inert gas workcell, wash nozzles etc is another story
20:50 < kemmishtree> cool.  might make sense to ask you to take that on soon-ish!
20:51 < kemmishtree> thanks for all your help!  one more question for now: could these printheads work fine at an ambient temperaute of say 80°C?
20:52 < MrHindsight> thats a loaded question
20:52 < MrHindsight> the Epsons are made for room temp
20:53 < MrHindsight> they could go that high with reduced life
20:53 < kanzure> kemmishtree: if you need the surface to be heated, and the inkjet to not be heated then you would cool the inkjet with a cooling system
20:53 < kemmishtree> aye aye
20:53 < MrHindsight> nah, just head the bed
20:54 < MrHindsight> we print on hot plates/griddles all the time
20:54 < kemmishtree> hmmmm.... could the two inks be at very divergent temperatures?  and/or could one nozzle be hot and the other cool?
20:54 < MrHindsight> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Presto-20-inch-Electric-Griddle/169174453?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=1256&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42423897272&wl4=pla-51320962143&wl5=9057560&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=169174453&wl13=1256&veh=sem
20:54 < MrHindsight> sorry for the long link
20:54 < MrHindsight> should have checked first
20:55 < MrHindsight> ^$25 hot bed
20:55 < MrHindsight> kemmishtree: each head can be a different temp
20:56 < MrHindsight> we heat UV inks and waxes all the time in heads with integrated heaters
20:58 < MrHindsight> we used to have thermal inkjet heads like you find in your desktop inkjet printers
20:58 < MrHindsight> but Lexmark stopped making them
20:59 < MrHindsight> we could get virgin heads and fill with whatever worked
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21:03 <@fenn> you don't need inert gas right?
21:03 <@fenn> just printing in regular old air
21:06 < kanzure> no inert gas in this scenario
21:06 < kanzure> except maybe for washing, but undecided whether this is necessary, probably isn't
21:07 < MrHindsight> kemmishtree has left the building
21:08 < MrHindsight> I haven't found anyone to partner with in China to make printheads
21:08 < kanzure> yeah he's violently ill with the flu or something
21:08 < MrHindsight> is the shot any good this season?
21:09 < kanzure> superkuh: ^
21:09 < MrHindsight> I heard maybe 10-30% this year
21:09 < superkuh> If you had it last year it's even less effective.
21:09 < superkuh> You need to get the cell culture based ones.
21:09 < superkuh> Not the egg ones.
21:09 < MrHindsight> had the flu or the shot?
21:09 < superkuh> The egg ones revert the wild type dominant mutation to the HA protein.
21:09 < MrHindsight> yeah what i read
21:10 < superkuh> Flucelvax and Flublok
21:10 < superkuh> Are the cell based culture vaccines.
21:10 < superkuh> And they'll provide the best protection this year.
21:11 < MrHindsight> how about a DIY vaccine kit? well you couldn't call it that
21:13 < MrHindsight> superkuh: can you take those after getting the egg based?
21:15 < MrHindsight> ok, I'm off
21:15 < MrHindsight> but I'll stay in the channel to check for questions later
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21:18 < superkuh> You can. I don't know how it'll effect it. If you had egg based last year the similarity (excepting HA sugar binding site) might decrease the immune response to cell based this year.
21:18 < superkuh> But I haven't seen any evidence to support that.
21:18 < superkuh> Just egg then egg.
21:19 < kanzure> https://viagenpets.com/dog-cloning/
21:21 < CaptHindsight> superkuh: does it also go egg = trivalent and cell based = quad?
21:22 < CaptHindsight> or do they make both tri and quad with both methods?
21:23 < kanzure> "A dog or cat genetic preservation (GP) costs $1,600.00."
21:23 < kanzure> "Dog cloning costs are $50,000.00, paid in two equal installments. Cat cloning costs are $25,000.00, paid in two equal installments."
21:23 < CaptHindsight> not a bad racket
21:28 < nmz787> CaptHindsight: can you print onto another printhead?
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21:29 < nmz787> CaptHindsight: such that you could print back and forth? (if printing upside down would work)
21:30 < kanzure> you can print sideways i think
21:30 < kanzure> so just have two sides
21:38 < nmz787> lol @ the alibaba "RIP Software for free"
21:38 < nmz787> I think I get it, i.e. "relax"... but I generally associate RIP with death
21:42 < superkuh> CaptHindsight, the number of strains HA targeted doesn't have to do with the type of culture.
21:45 < kanzure> https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/21/15999544/biohacking-finger-magnet-human-augmentation-loss
21:49 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20170614030534/https://forum.biohack.me/discussion/2038/brutal-magnet-removal-
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22:58 < adlai> <JayDugger> "...humans had been forced off the planet by an AI defender of the ecosystem." << '''simpsons did it''' ?
22:59 < adlai> and by 'simpsons' i mean that biochemistry prof that got bored of popsci
23:01 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: RIP = raster image processor
23:02 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: piezo heads in general are made to print towards gravity
23:03 < CaptHindsight> with some tricks they may print up to 90 deg from that
23:03 < CaptHindsight> some TIJ head (thermal) can also print up, so 360 deg
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23:22 < nmz787> adlai: season and episode # plz
23:35 < adlai> nmz787: uh. S01E04 "Robots and Empire"
23:35 < adlai> oops SPOILER WARNING UNREAD LAST LINE THANK YOU
23:35 < adlai> nmz787: S02E02 "The Stars, Like Dust"
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 03 00:00:01 2018