--- Log opened Sun Jan 21 00:00:29 2018 00:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103f:8600:15f3:3512:37b8:f415] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:25 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:33 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.160.246.83] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:11 -!- BobaMa [bobama@kapsi.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:17 -!- BobaMa [bobama@kapsi.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:34 -!- BobaMa [bobama@kapsi.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:47 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103f:8600:5cb0:82e0:7d55:c6bc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qoqpubxoidhjqxkf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:47 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: dstrbd] 03:52 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 -!- NikopolSohru [~NSohru@a7.dftronics.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:23 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: dstrbd] 05:09 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:27 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:41 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:03 -!- NikopolSohru [~NSohru@a7.dftronics.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:40 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/955085712566771712 06:40 < yoleaux> "Bitmain contributed as much revenue to TSMC as nVidia did last quarter" (@kanzure) 06:45 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:57 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:14 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:57 -!- saurik [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 < kanzure> factorio ain't taught me nothing https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15195869 08:59 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 < JayDugger> Not sure what that has to do with Factorio, other than in general theme, but interesting reading. Thanks. 09:32 < kanzure> because people keep saying that factorio has taught them factory optimization and logistics 09:33 < ebowden> lol 09:36 < JayDugger> Taught them what? That the subjects exist? 09:37 < kanzure> hmm 09:37 < JayDugger> I seem to have missed the joke here, and I seem to risk obtuseness. 09:37 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/955131420074233858 09:37 < yoleaux> I am a Satoshi Roundtable this year. (@kanzure) 09:38 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: dstrbd] 09:38 < JayDugger> Yup. Have fun. 09:40 < JayDugger> Also, s/ a / at / 09:40 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:09 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:11 < kanzure> jtimon knows marc fawzi? why/how? 10:28 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:45 < JayDugger> .tw https://twitter.com/marcfawzi/status/954931689414737920 10:45 < yoleaux> I have an honest question: why didn't @elonmusk make as his goal the colonization of the oceans and deserts of this planet instead of sending people to Mars? I understand that ultimately we have to colonize other worlds but why not start at home? (@marcfawzi) 10:45 < JayDugger> This guy? 10:55 < kanzure> yes the one i banned in 2009 10:55 < kanzure> and the one that satoshi nakamoto referenced 10:58 < jtimon> kanzure: who is marc fawzi ? I don't think I know him... 10:59 < jtimon> oh, we follow each other on twitter...I don't know... 11:01 < kanzure> alright 11:01 < kanzure> thanks for checking 11:01 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:03 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103f:8600:5cb0:82e0:7d55:c6bc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.180.202.22] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:11 < JayDugger> Impressed that remember a nine-year-old banning. 11:13 < JayDugger> "and the one that satoshi nakamoto referenced?" I don't know the reference you mean, but that's not important. 11:14 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17 < maaku> if the goal is planetary redundancy, the deserts and oceans don't sound like a very good plan 11:29 < mrdata> those deserts are fragile ecologies 11:31 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-35.itcanada.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41 < JayDugger> Given obvious answers such as redundancy and independence, the prefix to tweet seems insincere. Hard to say with twitter, but equally hard to give the benefit of the doubt. 12:06 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:11 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:37 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48 -!- rustylerp [~rustylerp@189.112.238.249] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:48 < kanzure> rustylerp: hi. 12:59 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- m4l3z [~m4l3z@2a01cb040226f20015ee0022fedadaaf.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/955178560133746690 13:15 < yoleaux> Just got done making a pitch deck for a low-cost human designer baby project. Estimating ~1 million designer babies by 2045. (@kanzure) 13:15 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/955184318963269634 13:15 < yoleaux> @kanzure What genetic manipulations are you proposing? Cleaning up rare mutations? Promoting things which have been spreading rapidly through the genome? (@bramcohen, in reply to tw:955178560133746690) 13:15 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/955186060979392512 13:15 < yoleaux> @kanzure Removing extremely rare (aka recent and random) changes would dramatically reduce overall mutational load and also have strong positive effects (@bramcohen, in reply to tw:955184855008104450) 13:17 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/955187407384489984 13:17 < yoleaux> @kanzure There are something like two thousand mutations which are known to be spreading rapidly because the sections around them exhibit low variation. We have no idea what the vast majority of them do (@bramcohen, in reply to tw:955186868483776513) 13:23 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/walterdebrouwer/status/955188908907683840 13:23 < kanzure> .tw 13:23 < yoleaux> @kanzure @bramcohen @andrewhessel We should be over 2m now, fully sequenced genomes including exomes. It was 1m finally in 2016; Illumina power law is doubling every year. One third in Usa. Lots for research though. @andrewhessel correct me if wrong. (@walterdebrouwer, in reply to tw:955187314866704384) 13:24 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:32 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-195-114.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:24 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/955200971662966784 14:34 -!- dstrbd [~dstrbd@ec2-52-90-70-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: dstrbd] 14:37 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-35.itcanada.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:37 < maaku> parents who love kids based on how lovable they are, are rotten people 14:54 < kanzure> some parents are rotten, SORRY 14:54 < kanzure> not your choice 15:23 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppokvabxicawjabf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:03 -!- rustylerp [~rustylerp@189.112.238.249] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-195-114.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:35 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.160.246.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57 -!- m4l3z [~m4l3z@2a01cb040226f20015ee0022fedadaaf.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05 < kanzure> blorp 17:20 < fenn> i'm surprised hitler hasn't been mentioned yet 17:20 < fenn> oops i did it again 17:21 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.82.113.167] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:29 < kanzure> cathal is upset because i think some babies are uglier than others :-/ 17:31 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31 < jrayhawk> lol 17:32 < fenn> we've got to iron all the wrinkles out of their brains 17:33 < fenn> "Children with prolonged crying (but not those with colic only) had an adjusted mean IQ that was 9 points lower than the control group." 17:33 < fenn> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15499048 17:33 < yoleaux> Long term cognitive development in children with prolonged crying. - PubMed - NCBI 17:33 < kanzure> i wonder if the biological response to parenting is really overwhelmingly strong, or if people who have regrets simply don't talk about it because they would be murdered by other parents 17:33 < kanzure> hah what 17:33 < kanzure> that's hilarious 17:34 < fenn> i dunno if it's a solid result, just a corrolary of something we were talking about just now in my living room 17:34 < fenn> if babies cry constantly they don't get as much feedback about their actions 17:35 < maaku> also they spend their time crying, not exploring and learning 17:36 < kanzure> my proposal- which cathal got upset about-- was to engineer babies that cry less and are generally more happy 17:36 < maaku> note these are colic babies, which literally spend ALL DAY crying 17:36 < kanzure> which, as a result, would make parenting a more easy process and less likely to result in shaken baby syndrome and other problems 17:36 < fenn> you want to bootstrap an action to utility function mapping that goes something like, feel {wet, hungry, bad smells} -> cry -> parent does something that fixes the problem -> feel better 17:37 < maaku> usually a baby cries because they have some need; satisfy the need and they stop. colic babies just cry. and cry. and cry some more. 17:37 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:37 < kanzure> babies that aren't fully functional children are already a general problem (other mammals poop out functional babies) so minimiing baby crying seems like a trivial thing in the scheme of mammalian normalcy 17:37 < maaku> not surprising to me that long term studies would find them slightly disadvantaged, given the toll it puts on parents, and the lack of early learning 17:37 < kanzure> i thin that parent health is often overlooekd.... but i'm not a parent what the fuck do i know. 17:38 < maaku> no i think you're right 17:38 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:19a9:be1f:fd4b:2e65] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:38 < maaku> many hospitals now organize cohort parent groups 17:38 < maaku> not as studies, but weekly get togethers that are really like support groups 17:39 < kanzure> always makes me concerned how people tell parents with disabled children to just grit their teeth and smile. bah. 17:39 < kanzure> *blah 17:40 < maaku> i wonder about what the long term affects of whatever you'd do to make happy babies are 17:40 < kanzure> could be positive or negative in the long-term; no real way to know. 17:40 < maaku> like, whether you end up with excessive dopamine receptors and a tendacy to additiction or whatever 17:40 < kanzure> but generally, in a million years, we should have easier babies not more difficult babies.... if the human race is tending towards increasinlgy difficult babies, that seems like a bad outcome. 17:41 < maaku> but in general i think there's A LOT we don't know about the gestation process which could help, and having artificial wombs would help control that environmental factor 17:41 < fenn> "the two most common causes of colicky abdominal pain are gastroesophageal reflux (GER) and food or formula allergies" 17:42 < maaku> you joked about gay babies, but with an artificial womb it really would be a setting you'd configure ... once we figure out how it all works 17:42 < fenn> hmm well that was a bit too qualified. is "abdominal pain" the main cause of colic? 17:42 < kanzure> there's only like a million generations of evolutionary history of pregnany, right? or i guess there's cohort effects of parents that have multiple children.... so that increases the total number of events that have been selected against. 17:42 < maaku> but also, i imagine, colic and other important factors are environmentally determined from gestation 17:43 < maaku> fenn: it used to be thought that was the case, and the standard procedure with colic babies is lots of testing to find internal sources of irritation. but it turns out there's also perfectly healthy babies that just cry, for six months straight 17:43 < maaku> very small % of the population 17:43 < kanzure> and because "love all the babies" is mandatory, people keep selecting for babies that cry forever 17:45 < fenn> evolution selects for people that love all the babies 17:45 < fenn> a vicious cycle 17:45 < maaku> until genetic drift eventually makes the human race incapable of natural procreation 17:45 < kanzure> dunno; there's also forces at play where pregnant women will reject certain fetuses, evolutionarily speaking it's sometimes the optimal thing to do 17:45 < fenn> yeah like when you're literally starving 17:45 < maaku> until there's this drug available that prevents miscarriages 17:46 < kanzure> no way that one drug can prevent all miscarriages :-) 17:46 < jrayhawk> your doctor hates this one weird trick to prevent all miscarriages click here to learn more 17:47 * kanzure clicks jrayhawk 17:47 < fenn> is it a mechanical womb 17:48 < kanzure> how can you miscarriage if it's not a womb? hmm 17:48 < kanzure> you're gonna be borned whether you like it or not you little fucker 17:49 < kanzure> genetically speaking, fetuses are going to need to be optimized for mechanical wombs 17:49 < kanzure> not just a matter of womb fluid optimization 17:49 < fenn> "Fewer than 5% of infants who cry excessively turn out to have an underlying organic disease, such as constipation, gastroesophageal reflux disease, etc" 17:50 < kanzure> no i think some of them just like to cry 17:50 < JayDugger> Whiny bastardy begins at birth, in other words? 17:51 < JayDugger> maaku, "you joked about gay babies, but with an artificial womb it really would be a setting you'd configure ... once we figure out how it all works" 17:51 < fenn> use of anticholinergic agents improve colic symptoms ... cigarette smoke may increase the risk 17:51 < JayDugger> Greg Egan wrote a short story about that. 17:54 < kanzure> "such a rewarding experience" 17:55 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00 < maaku> i wonder if the biological response to parenting is really overwhelmingly strong, or if people who have regrets simply don't talk about it because they would be murdered by other parents 18:00 < maaku> there definately seems to be a notion of 'bonding' and some people who don't achieve this 18:02 < kanzure> sure i'll bond with an ugly.... but you're still ugly. 18:09 < emeraldgreen> JayDugger Ted Chiang also wrote "Liking what you see 18:10 < fenn> "Ted Chiang's short story describes a debate at fictional Pembleton College about enforcing the use of calliagnosia, a device that makes it impossible to users to prejudice against others based on facial beauty." 18:11 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:19a9:be1f:fd4b:2e65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12 < fenn> not a real condition 18:19 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@107.211.153.65] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:35 < kanzure> ? 18:56 < superkuh> Harrison Bergeron: 2010s edition. 19:08 < kanzure> hm? 19:09 < superkuh> A reference to Ted Chiang's short fenn mentioned. 19:41 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-35.itcanada.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:42 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@107.211.153.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:49 < kanzure> https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-unhampered-by-rules-races-ahead-in-gene-editing-trials-1516562360 19:55 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-130.itcanada.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:24 < ebowden> Huh, a mutation in Kibra improves working memory? I wonder how it affects its other functions. 20:28 < ebowden> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1534580710000067 20:42 < ebowden> http://www.jbc.org/content/286/10/7788.full.pdf?with-ds=yes 21:03 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:26 -!- TC [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: zzz sleep zzz] 21:49 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnlqmtfienfdipmb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:54 -!- Ffffgffd [5f5bf455@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.91.244.85] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:59 -!- Ffffgffd [5f5bf455@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.91.244.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.180.202.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103f:8600:5cb0:82e0:7d55:c6bc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:19 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Jan 22 00:00:30 2018