--- Log opened Wed Feb 07 00:00:45 2018
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03:57 < maaku> Too bad they didn't do gravity assists to put it in a solar escape trajectory.
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04:36 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=99035980 Bryan Bishop: transcript: ron paul on bitcoin >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/satoshi-roundtable/sr-004/ron-paul/
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04:55 < kanzure> spcas9 target range expansion https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/02/02/258939 https://twitter.com/PranamMIT/status/959950124259729414
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06:22 < JayDugger1> If Scaling Bitcoin 2018 doesn't have at least one meme with the Shinjuku Godzilla statue, then I will...
06:23 < JayDugger1> ...feel sorely disappointed, but probably not much else.
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08:35 < kanzure> probably not going to that
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09:51 < JayDugger1> Go. I have every confidence in your ability to transcribe Japanese.
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14:06 < adlai> maaku: since when does winning entail being the gliderest gun in the galaxy?
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16:13 < maaku>  puttering around for a few tens of thousands of years before smashing into a planet isn't winning
16:21 < MrHindsight> https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/americas-heroin-epidemic/fda-declares-popular-alt-medicine-kratom-be-deadly-opioid-n845311
16:21 < MrHindsight> at it again
16:22 < MrHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Chemistry
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17:02 < fenn> can't really do a gravity assist without mid-course corrections, and can't do that without storable fuel and oxidizer
17:02 < fenn> there were a ton of things they could have done, but in the end it was just for fun
17:03 < fenn> i wonder what else was on that isaac asimov disk
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17:08 < MrHindsight> it's great that were back at space travel again, but I still recall Saturn V's taking off a couple times a year
17:09 < fenn> spacex did 17 launches last year
17:10 < MrHindsight> I'm still waiting for the Space Hotel and the launch station in orbit
17:10 < fenn> yeah what's up with that
17:10 < MrHindsight> 40 years later
17:11 < MrHindsight> and the moonbase
17:11 < fenn> bigelow ought to have had its own space station a decade ago
17:11 < fenn> they have a module on ISS that's sitting unused
17:12 < fenn> i think the moonbase will have to wait until BFR is operational
17:12 < MrHindsight> has to be some capital gain now
17:13 < MrHindsight> take the wall money from Mexico and use that for a space ladder :)
17:13 < fenn> eh
17:14 < fenn> it would be great if rotating tethers were common knowledge
17:14 < fenn> rockets and beanstalks are not the only ways to get to space
17:15 < MrHindsight> space brake, get high into the atmosphere, hit the brake, let the earth move away from you
17:16 < fenn> something like that
17:16 < fenn> it's called momentum exchange
17:17 < fenn> get on a piddling little creature like spaceship one and boost above the atmosphere at the exact right time and place, and the bottom end of an orbiting tether grapples you and flings you into orbit like a trebuchet
17:18 < fenn> the tether is in an elliptical orbit before the maneuver, and is in a circular orbit after the maneuver
17:19 < fenn> or you can just stay docked with the tether
17:20 < MrHindsight> yeah but money
17:20 < MrHindsight> that's the big hurdle now
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17:36 < streety> orbital rings look interesting as well. Now practical until a much larger presence in space though
17:37 < fenn> yeah a tether can be launched on a single falcon 9
17:37 < streety> *Not
17:37 < fenn> orbital rings are like, major megastructure engineering
17:37 < fenn> also you can't really bootstrap an orbital ring afaik
17:38 < fenn> i mean the minimum scale is around the entire planet
17:38 < streety> about the same level as a space elevator perhaps
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17:38 < fenn> sure but more useful than a beanstalk because it doesn't take forever to get to space
17:38 < streety> Potentially larger engineering but closer to being within the range of current technology
17:39 < fenn> launch loop is a more practical first step along that route
17:41 < streety> If you can get to a robust space industry marshalling the resources to build an orbital ring in space might be easier than a launch loop on the surface
17:42 < fenn> yeah but by that point you must have a better way of getting to orbit already
17:42 < streety> I'm not sure I agree
17:42 < fenn> it depends how well robotics works i guess
17:42 < fenn> so far robotics is a total and utter failure
17:43 < streety> yeah, robotics, self-replicating factories
17:43 < streety> potentially got a long way from very modest beginnings given enough time
17:44 < streety> to say robotics is a total and utter failure seems too strong
17:44 < streety> Certainly a long way to go though
17:44 < fenn> yeah well we could have been producing methane on mars for the last 40 years with just industrial process control and a reel to reel tape drive computer
17:44 < fenn> but that didn't happen
17:45 < streety> I'm not sure heading down to Mars is the right approach. Why head back down a gravity well when you've just escaped one?
17:45 < fenn> because it's a nearby source of volatiles
17:46 < fenn> discovering water on the moon was very recent
17:47 < fenn> dealing with a spinning cluster of rubble that's light hours away... well that's an unsolved problem
17:49 < fenn> mars also has the potential for a manned presence, asteroids not so much
17:50 < streety> Why not?
17:50 < fenn> have to ship everything there
17:51 < streety> Which is different from Mars?
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17:51 < fenn> yes
17:51 < streety> The asteroids do have a variety of resources as well
17:51 < fenn> mars has enough mineral diversity to support agriculture or whatever you call growing vats of algae
17:52 < fenn> ok i'm not very knowledgeable about near earth asteroids
17:53 < streety> Mineral diversity may well be an advantage (I'm also less knowledgeable on this than I would like)
17:54 < fenn> you can get water and nitrogen and carbon from the mars atmosphere alone
17:54 < streety> Assuming something is lacking on one movement would be easier than with a planet
17:54 < fenn> yeah it would be a network economy, not everything in one place
17:55 < fenn> so you'd start with mars, grow food and export it to the belt in exchange for metals
17:56 < streety> apparently 1.89% nitrogen but only traces of water
17:56 < fenn> keep the metals in orbit and build ships and fuel them with methane from mars
17:56 < streety> why would the belt be short of food? Nitrogen would be a maybe but not sure what else they would need
17:56 < fenn> sunlight for one
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17:57 < fenn> oh i guess you could carry a nuclear reactor around
17:57 < fenn> maybe that's easier than moving food around anyway
17:57 < streety> Actually I'm not sure sunlight would be less of a problem on mars
17:57 < fenn> why's that?
17:58 < streety> In space it is very easy to build a huge mirror to collect light. Not an option on Mars
17:58 < streety> Plus Mars has day/night and wether
17:58 < fenn> fair enough
18:00 < fenn> i think eventually technology will get to the point where a single family can have 40 asteroids and a mule and be mostly self sufficient, but we're not there yet
18:05 < streety> It might just take one, with a bit of trade for low abundance elements
18:06 < fenn> "Of all of the near-Earth asteroids (NEA) that had been discovered by mid-1977, it was estimated that spacecraft could rendezvous with and return from only about one in 10 using less propulsive energy than is necessary to reach Mars."
18:07 < streety> Interesting
18:07 < streety> I wonder if that still holds today
18:08 < streety> and what the split is between the journey there and back
18:08 < fenn> electric propulsion was much less developed back then
18:09 < streety> Is that comparing with there and back from Mars or just to Mars? On re-reading it is not clear
18:10 < fenn> .title https://www.wired.com/2013/03/earth-approaching-asteroids-as-targets-for-exploration-1978/
18:10 < yoleaux> Earth-Approaching Asteroids as Targets for Exploration (1978) | WIRED
18:10 < fenn> haven't read it
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18:15 < fenn> https://echo.jpl.nasa.gov/~lance/delta_v/delta_v.rendezvous.html
18:16 < fenn> i'm not sure this takes into account aerobraking
18:16 < fenn> http://clowder.net/hop/railroad/deltaveemap.html
18:19 < streety> "Shoemaker and Helin cited a 1977 Niehoff study which showed that a  piloted spacecraft could reach 2062 Aten in six months if NASA were  willing to dedicate 28 Shuttle launches to the mission."
18:19 < fenn> so 4.3km/s from LEO to mars capture, and 3.3km/s from LEO to closest NEAs
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18:19 < streety> That article is worth reading, I want to know more about what was planned for a cheap reusable space shuttle now
18:19 < streety> Seems so removed from the reality I grew up with
18:19 < fenn> yeah i chuckled when i read that
18:20 < fenn> manned fuel transports
18:25 < streety> They do mention preparation of fuel depots in advance by unmanned ships with slow trajectories and utilizing electric propulsion
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20:12 < adlai> MrHindsight: money is not a hurdle. there is exactly enough money for anything anybody wishes to do. the issue is resource allocation. it seems that the ants prefer driving and occasionally island hopping, instead of skipping stones.
20:17 < MrHindsight> monkeys
20:17 < adlai> monkeys are the big hurdle?
20:17 < MrHindsight> frozen money/resources/energy
20:18 < adlai> leave the monkeys behind, it's not like they're evolutionarily optimized for evolutionary reoptimization to the interplanetary environment
20:18 < MrHindsight> you're supposed to save it not spend/use it
20:19 < MrHindsight> ask just about any monkey
20:19 < MrHindsight> with money
20:19 < adlai> speaking of evolution - recently finished "Galapagos" (Vonnegut). i'll lump it with the "books every purported transhumanist should have clockwork-oranged into their brain, complete with lsd-in-alcohol eyedrops"
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20:43 < mbaril010> :)
20:45 < mbaril010> Just found that channel. Quick question, why is everything logged?
20:45 < mbaril010> Just curious
20:54 < mrdata> why is what logged
20:59 < MrHindsight> to keep a record of info shared
21:00  * mrdata still doesnt know what "everything" refers to in the question
21:00 < mrdata> what is "that channel"?
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21:27 < mbaril010> :)
21:27 < mbaril010> Am I speaking to a bot? :P
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21:32 < mrdata> mbaril010, what is the matter with you? do we hsve to pull teeth to get you to be specific on what youre talking about?
21:33 < mrdata> *have
21:33 < mbaril010> Oh sorry if Im not clear. It may be due to a language barrier. Really not my intension
21:34 < mbaril010> I was just wondering why this channel is logged but MrHindsight answered me Thanks
21:34 < mrdata> oh, this channel?
21:34 < mbaril010> yes sorry
21:34 < mrdata> you said "that channel" -- there's the confusion
21:34 < mbaril010> My mistake
21:35 < mbaril010> mrdata, are you involve in any project right now ? :)
21:35 < mbaril010> Just want to learn more about transhumanis and biohacking
21:38 < mrdata> mbaril010, no; i'm just interested in the topic
21:40 < mbaril010> Ok, do you know if there is a lot of conversation on this channel ? Or it is almost always calm
21:40 < MrHindsight> both
21:41 < MrHindsight> usually quite by this time of day, picks up again in 10 hours
21:43 < mbaril010> Ok I see. Well in 10 hour, I will be waking up for the job
21:52 < MrHindsight> quite/quiet
21:52 < MrHindsight> if you have questions just ask
21:52 < MrHindsight> if you have links to papers, just post
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 08 00:00:46 2018