--- Log opened Thu Mar 08 00:00:13 2018
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05:41 < kanzure> i don't care if they don't think they want it.
05:41 < kanzure> i really don't
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07:09 < kanzure> zayner/traywick lawsuit https://www.facebook.com/josiah.zayner/posts/10103239434329807
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07:19 < fenn> technically he's suing gizmodo
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07:41 < kanzure> someone says if we can do $500m to get 4-5 nm feature size on a 5 year timeline then $500m might be available for this
07:41 < kanzure> for miners
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09:01 < emeraldgreen> kanzure $500m is merely 3.5% of 5nm fab price tag http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2018/01/27/2003686498 it is just enough for covering NRE costs of 5nm chip though
09:01 < yoleaux> 06:36Z <nmz787> emeraldgreen: programming a fresh brain might need to be accomplished by other cells traversing through and setting up weights or other chemical states. https://twitter.com/TommyVierbuchen/status/969808674968481792
09:03 < emeraldgreen> nmz787 cool, but one needs some kind of memory in this cell as well then. I also thought about JTAG-like (and white-matter-like) bus allowing to write to every synapse of the brain, maybe if future synbio engineers could, say, optimize glia metabolism so there is need in 2x less glia, the rest of free space could be used for this bus without harming neurons.
09:04 < emeraldgreen> Would be cool if one could read synapses from plastinated brain and then burn them into similar brain via a month or a year of programming
09:04 < emeraldgreen> Though pseudorandomness of synaptic connections could block this idea
10:31 < mrdata> they might be random connections
10:31 < mrdata> emeraldgreen, did you ever hear about echo state networks?
10:32 < mrdata> these are also networks of random connections
10:32 < mrdata> and you only program the inputs and outputs
10:34 < mrdata> but this is an individual process; i dont think inner layers are equivalent
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10:44 < kanzure> i don't think i would use their plans for 5 nm tho
10:44 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that their cost estimations are correct
10:44 < kanzure> everything is going to cost $100 billion if you always assume it's impossible engineering magic
10:47 < mrdata> i wish some things would only cost 100 bn
10:47 < mrdata> theyre more like 100 trillion
10:50 < kanzure> who is $100 trillion?
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10:56 < mrdata> 100 trillion is small potatoes to the guys who want to terraform mars; just an example
10:57 < kanzure> huh?
10:57 < kanzure> how did we get to mars? i thought we were talking about super fabs.
10:58  * mrdata comes back down to earth
11:06 < kanzure> http://www.towerjazz.com/technology.html
11:07 < nmz787> emeraldgreen: maybe the glia are remote-controlled
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11:07 < nmz787> emeraldgreen: i.e. magnetolocalization or whatever it's called when bacteria and such swim towards magnetic fields
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11:15 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c07128de Bryan Bishop: transcript: cross-curve atomic swaps >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2018-03-05-cross-curve-atomic-swaps/
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11:37 < emeraldgreen> nmz787 Yup, another friend proposed to control cells moving through the brain via magnetic gradient
11:37 < emeraldgreen> Good idea
11:38 < emeraldgreen> mrdata I have heard about echo state networks, modern randomly connected deep learning CNNs are similar, they have some counter-intuitive applications but nothing magical
11:40 < emeraldgreen> kanzure Do you have some hints at alternative plans then ? The only things that come to my mind as alternatives to conventional litho (w/ or w/o EUV) are self-assembly (always 20 years in the future) and direct ebeam lithography
11:42 < kanzure> i would spend some time looking at dna origami (it's "self-assembly" but only of some portion of the mask)
11:43 < kanzure> or protein-based masks
11:50 < emeraldgreen> I would also look at protocells
11:51 < emeraldgreen> And at ways to influence multi-cellular organism morphogenesis
11:52 < kanzure> you what now
11:53 < emeraldgreen> Would be cool to have protocells with neuron-like properties but without evolutionary cruft, should be possible to direct assembly of small circuits from these "neurons"
11:53 < emeraldgreen> via selfassembly
11:54 < emeraldgreen> or do you mean you want to get to 5nm compute via selfassembly? doesn't compute for me because designers need to produce large globally coherent precise circuits
11:54 < emeraldgreen> self-assembly can only do some local patterns tiled over the plane or volume afaik, without global coherence
11:58 < kanzure> with origami the problem is alignment not large patterns (it's just more cost, that's all)
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14:49 < jrayhawk> .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2017.00315/full
14:49 < yoleaux> Frontiers | The Folate Cycle As a Cause of Natural Killer Cell Dysfunction and Viral Etiology in Type 1 Diabetes | Endocrinology
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15:33 < JayDugger> Thank you for continuing to make and post transcripts, kanzure.
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21:11 < nmz787> sup
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 09 00:00:13 2018