--- Log opened Wed Mar 14 00:00:18 2018
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05:29 < fenn> how about genetically engineering an artificial kidney or organoid to express l-gulonolactone
05:29 < fenn> then if you don't like the biochemical effects you can simply remove it
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05:30 < fenn> can we make kidneys from scratch yet
05:31 < fenn> hmm not really
05:34 < fenn> "bioengineers might be able to strip the patient's own diseased kidney and rebuild it"
05:36 < fenn> "When transplanted into rats, they produced only around one-third as much urine as normal kidneys"
05:36 < fenn> that's not bad, considering you only need 1 kidney's worth. 2/3 > 1/2
05:37 < fenn> also that was 4 years ago
05:41 < fenn> for ascorbic acid synthesis it would be a liver organoid
05:42 < fenn> the benefit of this scheme is that you can get 100% gene therapy efficiency for the organ of interest by using FACS
05:48 < fenn> "Uric acid has also been proposed to have neurostimulant properties based on its similarity in chemical structure with caffeine and due to epidemiological and experimental studies suggesting it may have a role in increasing reaction time, locomotor activity, and mental performance"
05:49 < fenn> hopefully they meant decreasing reaction time
06:05 < JayDugger> One hopes, yes.
06:10 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=74f5d378 fenn: add l-gulonolacton and uricase >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
06:11 < kanzure> https://www.cibolo.com/docs/pyflex_f401_assy_v0.5-7.jpg
06:12 < kanzure> fenn: unfortunately organ transplants still require immuno-suppressants. fixing that first would be nice. otherwise you might as well use heavy immuno-suppressants + viral gene therapy without the major surgery involved in organ transplants.
06:12 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=60cbe71e fenn: i don't know how markdown works anymore >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
06:15 < kanzure> so, good addition to the file, but ... oh there wasn't anything on vitamin C before. weird. i had been told it was a single SNP mutation somewhere that disabled vitamin C production.
06:17 < fenn> yes there was a line about SNP but i think that is incorrect
06:17 < fenn> checking
06:17 < fenn> in any case it's not a polymorphism since all humans have it
06:25 < fenn> there was a retroviral insertion, and then "l-gulonolactone oxidase gene has accumulated a large number of mutations since it stopped being active"
06:26 < fenn> prior to this i think there were also downregulations in expression caused by mutations in the promoters for l-gulonolactone oxidase
06:26 < fenn> stupid paywalls
06:27 < kanzure> just prefix sci-hub.tw/ before the paywall
06:27 < fenn> nice
06:30 < fenn> Significantly, the sequenced
06:30 < fenn> fragment of the mutated human GLO gene
06:30 < fenn> contains several Alu inserts in intron regions, including
06:30 < fenn> two that are adjacent to an apparently missing exon
06:30 < fenn> (exon XI).
06:30 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=1961d5e4 Bryan Bishop: include recent intelligence gwas studies and the human metabolism stuff from earlier this year >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
06:32 < fenn> so george church (blessed be his name) and company removed porcine endogenous retroviruses from their pig. maybe it's worth doing the same to humans? they cause a lot of genetic diseases
06:33 < fenn> i haven't looked into this at all
06:33 < kanzure> "Inactivation of porcine endogenous retrovirus in pigs using CRISPR-Cas9" http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/08/09/science.aan4187
06:34 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/transplantation/
06:34 < kanzure> http://egenesisbio.com/
06:34 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfz4k7HGsOw&index=4&list=PLHpV_30XFQ8R2Kpcc1pwwXsFnJOCQVndt
06:34 < kanzure> (less good) http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2017-05-09/xenotransplantation/
06:34 < fenn> do you put up all the hgp-write transcripts?
06:35 < kanzure> originally i was asked not to, so i didn't. but then they published the videos so i guess i should be okay with adding more?
06:35 < fenn> at least for the published videos that should be no problem
06:35 < kanzure> ugh but now i have to fucking check each one?
06:36 < fenn> fine be lazy
06:36 < fenn> i was just trying to decide whether to download a bunch of google docs as .txt files
06:36 < kanzure> there are 70 videos here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbDJfRqcFI&list=PLHpV_30XFQ8RN0v_PIiPKnf8c_QHVztFM
06:36 < fenn> oy vey
06:36 < kanzure> which google docs?
06:36 < fenn> various links in pm
06:37 < kanzure> yashgaroth presentation is in that there playlist hm
06:37 < kanzure> alright i'll push these transcripts up
06:38 < fenn> wow this is a lot of videos
06:40 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ccb4c719 Bryan Bishop: more hgp-write 2017 transcripts >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2017-05-09/technology-for-the-construction-of-synthetic-bacteria/
06:41 < kanzure> this is going to take me more time than i thought
06:41 < kanzure> also they have a call scheduled in 20 minutes -_-
06:43 < fenn> you can push more than one file at once
06:44 < fenn> oh my bad
06:46 < fenn> i didn't realize ikiwiki converts .mdwn files to look like directories in the url
06:47 < fenn> that way you can have a directory and a webpage for that directory
06:52 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=6d250510 Bryan Bishop: more hgp-write 2017 transcripts >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2017-05-09/virginia-cornish/
06:53 < kanzure> they are all in http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2017-05-09/
06:53 < kanzure> i think that's everything? i have ~30 "stub files" in this directory, probably canceled talks or something..
06:53 < fenn> cool. i probably won't be reading them but i'm sure someone will
06:54 < kanzure> thanks for reminding me to do that
06:55 < kanzure> too many meetings
06:55 < kanzure> this one is about dna editing or something
06:56 < kanzure> "A pathway from chromsome transfer to engineering resulting in human and mouse artificial chromosomes for a variety of applications to bio-medical challenges"
06:57 < kanzure> "Combinations of chromosome transfer and genome editing for the development of cell/animal models of human disease and humanized animal models"
06:57 < fenn> oh the humanimality
06:57 < kanzure> mammalogists
06:57 < kanzure> mammalologists?
07:07 < fenn> mammalogistics - the art and science of moving animals around
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07:40 < nmz787> kanzure: please see my zoom chat messages
07:40 < nmz787> my mic seems to not be working
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07:50 < nmz787> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41277
07:50 < nmz787> .title
07:50 < yoleaux> Survival rate of eukaryotic cells following electrophoretic nanoinjection | Scientific Reports
07:50 < nmz787> http://www.imaging-git.com/science/light-microscopy/live-cell-nanoinjection
07:50 < nmz787> .title
07:50 < yoleaux> Live-Cell Nanoinjection | Imaging & Microscopy - Research, Development, Production
08:01 < kanzure> for inserting large amounts of dna into cells, you need a way to go and delete the other chromosomes that you're supposedly replacing
08:02 < kanzure> unclear about what people are doing for sequential edits where you have to edit in a certain order. sounds like people are just doing spray-and-pray.
08:02 < kanzure> balistic/biolistic delivery of megabases into plant is totally unexplored. people are just using gold nanoparticles without optimization, and then dna breaks because you're physically shooting it through the air and through cell walls and other stuff. so infusing a nanoparticle with large amounts of DNA that can later diffuse out of the nanoparticle once it's done being delivered, might be a ...
08:02 < kanzure> ...way to get around this problem for plant engineering.
08:03 < kanzure> cas9 toxicity still an issue. i wonder if the "base editor" stuff has this background toxicity activity... since it only changes nucleotides or whatever, and doesn't have the nuclease activity.
08:11 < nmz787> I was wondering if the DNA itself could be crystallized, such that it's the biolistic particle in entirety
08:12 < nmz787> you'd need a way to crystallize single DNA molecules alone, I guess, which seems like a challenge for a variety of reasons
08:12 < kanzure> you could use a directed evolution technique... where you shoot viruses that degrade in the cell, but survive the delivery process... and you could just iterate and repeat this selection process until you evolve some sort of virus shell that is compatible with the delivery of large amounts of dna.
08:12 < nmz787> or maybe some sort of emulsion PCR type pre-setup, then freeze the emulsion bubbles, and shoot in frozen bubbles?
08:12 < nmz787> mmm
08:13 < kanzure> frozen stuff is probably good idea.. because then it can melt with heat.
08:13 < nmz787> yeah the virus shell sounds OK
08:13 < kanzure> and cells are okay with some amounts of heat.
08:13 < kanzure> i don't think that ballistics is a scalable idea though. like what if you want umpteen rounds of ballistics. now you have to shoot the same cells? or different cells? it's sort of probabilistic due to scatter shotgun stuff. so you might as well just do more direct microinjection and microtargeting of ballistic projectile stuff....
08:13 < kanzure> (if you need multiple deliveries to the same cell)
08:14 < nmz787> yeah, seems like nanoinjection is a keyword
08:15 < nmz787> seems like it shouldn't be infeasible to automate with some OpenCV and motors
08:16 < kanzure> i think a lot of these people are thinking about in vivo cells not in vitro cells
08:16 < nmz787> I bet you could even conceive of micro/nano fluidics that are mass-producible which could assist somehow...
08:16 < kanzure> but screw 'em. in vitro cells are going to be easier to manipulate.
08:16 < nmz787> yeah that was an interesting question you posed
08:16 < kanzure> and you can take a single cell and turn it into a culture
08:16 < kanzure> well they seemed to not understand my question/proposal
08:16 < nmz787> I actually got the feeling like they were less interested in organs/in-vivo
08:17 < nmz787> since they were talking about regenerating whole-plants from the cell plant culture
08:17 < nmz787> the albino mention
08:23 < nmz787> https://ha.cking.ch/s8_data_line_locator/
08:23 < nmz787> .title
08:23 < yoleaux> Inside a low budget consumer hardware espionage implant
08:23 < nmz787> apparently only $7 on aliexpress... $50 on amazon https://www.amazon.com/Jiusion-Listening-Surveillance-Quad-band-Lightning/dp/B06X42SGPY
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08:45 < nmz787> oh, happy pi day
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09:55 < kanzure> .title https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-41
09:55 < yoleaux> SEC.gov | Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged With Massive Fraud
10:01 < kanzure> "Exogenous DNA uptake of boar spermatazoa by a magnetic nanoparticle vector system" http://dacemirror.sci-hub.hk/journal-article/7eb4ccdbcef2ddcece78e6bda29827f4/kim2009.pdf
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11:41 < kanzure> https://www.envigo.com/about-envigo/our-use-of-animals/
11:43 < kanzure> https://www.envigo.com/about-envigo/our-use-of-animals/animal-welfare-statement/
11:45 < kanzure> https://www.envigo.com/about-envigo/our-use-of-animals/animal-research-links/
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12:40 < nmz787> https://www.crowdsupply.com/grand-idea-studio/opticspy
12:41 < nmz787> A tool to explore optical data transmissions and covert channels
13:38 < kanzure> .wik fatty acid desaturase
13:38 < yoleaux> "A fatty acid desaturase is an enzyme that removes two hydrogen atoms from a fatty acid, creating a carbon/carbon double bond. These desaturases are classified as" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_desaturase
13:46 < fenn> ballistics is totally a scalable method. you transform some cells with some small efficiency like 1% and then grow the 1% that got transformed into a new culture and repeat the process
13:46 < fenn> there needs to be some way to select for only cells that got transformed, but that's not unique to ballistics
13:47 < fenn> being able to culture cells is why that mouse oocyte paper is so important
13:47 < fenn> you don't need to actually turn it into a mouse for each step
13:48 < fenn> also magnetofection is too good to be true
13:48 < fenn> what's the catch
13:57 < kanzure> what is the actual mechanism of magnetofection? i haven't looked.
14:06 < fenn> i think it just pushes the magnetic nanoparticles into the cell
14:06 < fenn> the cell is on a plate because that's what cells do, and you sprinkle the nanoparticles on top
14:07 < fenn> the magnet is below and the particles are attracted to it
14:23 < kanzure> ok. so you force the particles in because magnetic force.
14:53 < fenn> i guess
14:53 < fenn> nmz787: how hard would it be to make a hand held x-ray spectrometer?
14:54 < fenn> x-ray fluorescence
14:56 < fenn> the goal being to identify elements and get a rough estimate of their concentration
14:57 < fenn> this looks pretty simple and easy to me https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gun-diagram.jpg
14:57 < fenn> is there some crazy software problem?
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15:10 < fenn> this page shows a diffracting crystal, is that just any ol crystal? https://projects.exeter.ac.uk/geomincentre/estuary/Main/xrf.htm
15:11 < kanzure> google adwords is now banning crispr kits https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10103251799370167&set=a.10101651953444227.1073741832.37602560&type=3&theater
15:13 < fenn> is "you might use it to ____ a human" a common reason to deny adwords?
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15:26 < kanzure> [conduct commerce with]
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17:34 < kanzure> metabolic expenditure during typing https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26021449
18:04 < nmz787> fenn: I've been hoping to build one someday based on a PIN photodiode... this isn't something I've seen before but looks very well written http://physicsopenlab.org/2017/06/22/x-ray-spectroscopy-with-pin-photodiode/
18:04 < nmz787> guess it was written last summer, and I really haven't looked into this project in about a year or more
18:04 < nmz787> this was my last update on that https://github.com/nmz787/xray_detector
18:05 < nmz787> which was really just because someone in here mentioned something similar, and I posted my work (which I previously hadn't released)
18:08 < nmz787> fenn: software/machine databases of spectra/patterns is definitely an issue if you want to use your device without calibrating it against all know elements and molecules you're ever gonna be interested in
18:09 < nmz787> fenn: IMO the database is probably more valuable than the hardware, but they obscure this and just sell these things for $10s of thousands
18:12 < CaptHindsight> physicists and soldering irons  :)
18:12 < nmz787> fenn: this was an X-ray paper that seemed to be at the top of the pile for engineering examples http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.463.8095&rep=rep1&type=pdf
18:13 < nmz787> fenn: that one shows a spectra compared to a Si-Li detector (expensive and liquid nitrogen cooled)
18:15 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: what wavelengths are you interested in?
18:16 < nmz787> molybdenum characteristics were what I was originally after
18:16 < nmz787> I really just wanted dosimetry to begin
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18:17 < nmz787> spectroscopy seemed like a nice next-stage improvement, and I wanted a reason to use this 80 MHz ADC microcontroller I've got
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18:31 < fenn> cool so there's no moving parts because pulse height is proportional to x-ray energy
18:32 < fenn> you can use alpha particles from Am-241 to stimulate x-ray fluorescence
18:33 < fenn> so the entire device is just an alpha emitter and a PIN diode and some smoothing electronics?
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18:41 < fenn> i don't think it's as hard as raman spectroscopy. i was looking at a table of fluorescence energy vs atomic number and it's close to linear
18:41 < fenn> then you just have to disambiguate the alpha and beta peaks etc
18:42 < fenn> so there's no "database"
18:50 < kanzure> where does all the time go
18:50 < kanzure> does it clump together?
18:52 < kanzure> gotta kill all those time warms
18:52 < kanzure> worms.
18:56 < kanzure> https://hackaday.com/2016/07/10/add-slots-and-tabs-to-your-boxes-in-freecad/
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19:15 < nmz787> fenn: definitely doesn't seem as hard as raman spectroscopy... my limitation was that I don't have an xray source and building one of them is more (and burning-dangerous) yak shaving
19:16 < fenn> well it's easy to get an alpha source
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19:16 < fenn> i think it just goes more slowly
19:17 < nmz787> fenn: and since the PIN diode is sensitive to visible waves too... I wasn't sure how to properly test if I was in the right range at all for the analog (amplifier and some smoothing/sharpening) stuff
19:17 < fenn> you can calibrate to the alpha source directly
19:17 < fenn> it will self stimulate x-ray fluoresence
19:17 < nmz787> also I was hoping to use this for PIXE detection, and didn't know how any of these different-brightness sources would compare
19:17 < nmz787> .wik PIXE
19:17 < yoleaux> "Particle-induced X-ray emission or proton-induced X-ray emission (PIXE) is a technique used in the determining of the elemental make-up of a material or sample. When a material is exposed to an ion beam, atomic interactions occur that give off EM radiation of wavelengths in the x-ray part of the electromagnetic spectrum specific to an element." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIXE
19:18 < justanotheruser> maaku: I think you mentioned that nanoengineers chemical models had some issues and weren't accurate. Could you expand on that?
19:19 < fenn> with electrons in an electron microscope right?
19:19 < fenn> i have this problem where i've got this hunk of metal i found in a trash heap and i want to know what alloy it is
19:21 < kanzure> "Nuccitelli says that for many biologists, Levin is on to something. For example, he said, Levin’s success in inducing the growth of misplaced eyes in tadpoles simply by altering the ion flux through the local tissues “is an amazing demonstration of the power of biophysics to control pattern formation.”"
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19:21 < kanzure> from https://www.quantamagazine.org/brainless-embryos-suggest-bioelectricity-guides-growth-20180313/
19:21 < nmz787> I wanted to use this in a FIB, for detecting when the material the FIB was thinning was getting thin enough for PIXE rays to escape through the backside of the unmilled bulk
19:22 < kanzure> "In tadpoles, they reprogrammed the identity of large groups of cells at the level of entire organs, making frogs with extra legs and changing gut tissue into eyes — simply by hacking the local bioelectric activity that provides patterning information."
19:22 < nmz787> fenn: e-beam of metal will produce xrays
19:22 < nmz787> s/of/on
19:23 < fenn> sounds like you dont need to do spectroscopy at all
19:23 < nmz787> kanzure: you should ask jblake about that sort of thing, he was just talking about it the other night with me and jrayhawk
19:24 < kanzure> "Herrera-Rincon and the rest of the team didn’t stop there. They wanted to see whether they could “rescue” the developing body from these defects by using bioelectricity to mimic the effect of a brain. They decided to express a specific ion channel called HCN2, which acts differently in various cells but is sensitive to their resting potential. Levin likens the ion channel’s effect to ...
19:24 < kanzure> ...a sharpening filter in photo-editing software, in that “it can strengthen voltage differences between adjacent tissues that help you maintain correct boundaries. It really strengthens the abilities of the embryos to set up the correct boundaries for where tissues are supposed to go.”"
19:24 < kanzure> "To make embryos express it, the researchers injected messenger RNA for HCN2 into some frog egg cells just a couple of hours after they were fertilized. A day later they removed the embryos’ brains, and over the next few days, the cells of the embryo acquired novel electrical activity from the HCN2 in their membranes."
19:27 < nmz787> and?
19:28 < nmz787> did their extra legs and eyes revert as hoped?
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19:46 < kanzure> "why you should also be a theranos" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16588588
19:51 < fenn> "showed that bioelectricity works over long distances, mediated by the neurotransmitter serotonin"  uhh how is that electricity
19:53 < kanzure> charge transport?
19:54 < fenn> no points for guessing
19:54 < nmz787> kanzure: what about ditching wombs for eggs?
19:55 < kanzure> i don't know how to make human fetuses that grow in eggs
19:56 < nmz787> no frog+hamster papers or something?
19:56 < kanzure> unfortunately frog-hamster science was outlawed in the geneva convention
19:56 < kanzure> i think you mean platypus tho?
19:57 < nmz787> good point, teamwork!
19:58 < kanzure> or echidnas
19:58 < nmz787> I gues kangaroos are weird too, with their second-womb pouch thing
19:58 < nmz787> that's sort of the opposite direction though, maybe... requiring even more womb-engineering
19:59 < nmz787> eggs seem nice for some reason, I guess that's sort of inverting the problem since the womb just becomes an egg-former
19:59 < nmz787> so maybe no better
19:59 < nmz787> :/
20:01 < fenn> what's the difference between an artificial womb and an artificial egg?
20:01 < kanzure> he didn't ask for an artificial egg
20:02 < kanzure> for womb stuff: we should try doing a womb outside the body but still structurally hooked up and using the same blood system as the host. and then temperature regulation can be coupled using sensors and heating/cooling.
20:02 < fenn> like literally a womb?
20:02 < fenn> in a box
20:03 < kanzure> well for that goat womb it looked like just a plastic bag to me but whatever
20:03 < nmz787> fenn: well charge transport seems reasonable... they have a graphic too above that paragraph that sort of says the same thing. I guess if the brain was sending out neuronal signalling that was acting like a Digital-Analog-Converter, their brain removal then addition of ion channel might have just been like removing the stable DAC and replacing with a stable voltage-reference
20:03 < fenn> i mean you could explant a womb and put it in a box
20:03 < kanzure> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2128851-artificial-womb-helps-premature-lamb-fetuses-grow-for-4-weeks/
20:03 < nmz787> maybe a kangaroo pouch in a box?
20:05 < kanzure> "An extra-uterine system to physiologically support the extreme premature lamb" https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15112
20:05 < kanzure> "Here we report the development of a system that incorporates a pumpless oxygenator circuit connected to the fetus of a lamb via an umbilical cord interface that is maintained within a closed ‘amniotic fluid’ circuit that closely reproduces the environment of the womb."
20:06 < kanzure> i wonder how bad the umbilical cord material transport protocol really is. it's probably like an infinity number of factors that you have to get just right for the whole pregnancy? and you have to get the cord to develop first, which is annoying.
20:07 < kanzure> e.g. upregulation of certain proteins/messengers to tell the host "more pickles" or "less magnesium" and "more dirt"
20:10 < nmz787> hmm
20:11 < nmz787> are there nerve connections?
20:11 < nmz787> or is it just hormonal control, like gut bacteria do?
20:11 < nmz787> hormonal/small-molecule
20:14 < fenn> no nerves
20:14 < fenn> dna can pass through, apparently
20:14 < fenn> various proteins and stuff
20:15 < fenn> i think even whole cells from the fetus end up colonizing the mother
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20:16 < fenn> there is also evidence that cells may be transferred from mother to infant through nursing
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20:18 < fenn> "after the maternal heart was injured: they discovered that the fetal cells migrated to the maternal heart and differentiated into heart cells helping to repair the damage"
20:18 < fenn> heh maybe this is why women live longer
20:19 < nmz787> hmm
20:20 < nmz787> so if we can turn off menopause... then women could have a 'repair' kid every few years
20:20 < fenn> what could possibly go wrong
20:20 < nmz787> and if those kids were preferentially female...
20:20 < nmz787> success!
20:21 < fenn> breast milk for life! finally you've figured out how to do it
20:36 < kanzure> huh?
20:48 < nmz787> are there species where females don't stop menstruation?
20:48 < nmz787> or cases in humans?
20:48 < kanzure> i think the health benefits of embryonic stem cells from fetuses are probably not as strong as you think?
20:50 < nmz787> well just thinking, not particularly strongly
20:51 < nmz787> is using a woman as the womb out of the picture, if there was a good/sufficient way to upload/transfer all/portion of your brain/memories to the new organism?
20:55 < fenn> there's a bunch of assumptions packed in that question but i'm too tired to untangle it
20:56 < kanzure> well... if you could serialize all of your connectome by having neurons poop out information about their connectivity, and if there was also a way to force a new brain to adopt a certain connectivity graph, then uh... maybe.
20:58 < nmz787> fenn: heard of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_loop  ?
20:58 < fenn> yeah it's pretty sensible
20:58 < nmz787> seems like maybe someone I might cross paths with if I meet up with Eugen
20:59 < fenn> spacex will reduce the cost to orbit by a crapton so i doubt launch loop will ever get funded
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20:59 < fenn> there will have to be some serious interplanetary commerce first
21:00 < fenn> speedevil says it required nonexistent magnetic bearing tech
21:01 < fenn> not sure i believe that though
21:01 < kanzure> spacex's numbers always looked like $200m->$50m not very helpful to me?
21:01 < fenn> how does $100/kg sound
21:02 < kanzure> is that their number?
21:02 < fenn> depends
21:02 < fenn> i mean, who knows
21:02 < fenn> it's possible
21:02  * kanzure shakes fenn
21:02 < fenn> it's already at 1600/kg with falcon heavy
21:03 < fenn> er, that's sale price, not cost
21:03 < kanzure> yeah we need to be careful about costs vs prices around here :-/
21:03 < kanzure> maybe that's why ssc is having his cost inflation crisis or whatever
21:04 < kanzure> rob carlson complains about this for dna synthesis numbers
21:10 < kanzure> yashgaroth: let's fix metabolism so that it's always like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArPaid2Iuck&t=3m5s
21:12 < yashgaroth> that's the pepck-c muscle overexpression modification
21:13 < fenn> why are there 10 million views of someone eating noodles
21:15 < kanzure> .wik mukbang
21:15 < yoleaux> "Mukbang (or muk-bang) is an online audiovisual broadcast in which a host eats large quantities of food while interacting with their audience. Usually done through an internet webcast (such streaming platforms include Afreeca), mukbang became popular in South Korea in the 2010s." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukbang
21:15 < yashgaroth> but why tho
21:16 < kanzure> social isolation
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21:20 < CaptHindsight> first work out spinal cord replacements, grafts, splices to where it's trivial
21:21 < CaptHindsight> then head transplants to give you more time for the mind transfers
21:22 < kanzure> social isolation seems to cause weird cultural artifacts in asia.... like anime and mukbang.
21:22 < CaptHindsight> maybe brain grafts next
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21:26 < CaptHindsight> we need more weird
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