--- Log opened Wed Apr 04 00:00:38 2018 00:23 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:34 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:992f:b52:cd1f:bbcf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:34 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpqzenbjfqanbxse] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:37 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgqfeqhtgovxlsig] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:38 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:c89f:359c:c8a1:23e] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:50 -!- gabbar1947 [uid205515@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shjfocyskmttttsf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:59 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@124.123.14.99] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:07 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@hcccbcac120.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:16 -!- aeiousom1thing [aeiousomet@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@124.123.14.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:42 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:49 < fenn> it would be interesting to use that terahertz accelerator to shoot a beam of deuterons into a crystal of palladium or nickel... 02:52 < fenn> defocus it on a thin film to get better heat transfer 03:03 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpqzenbjfqanbxse] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:06 -!- TC [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:06 -!- Schattie [~Weird@204.48.46.11] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:06 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:06 -!- TC is now known as Guest75990 03:07 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:08 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:08 -!- liead is now known as adlai 03:13 < fenn> did someone hire a CRO? 03:13 < fenn> in the US i mean 03:14 -!- HEx2 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:14 -!- duper_ [~super@ns1.blackcatz.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: sachy, yoleaux, WeirdTolkienishF, pepesza, duper, hehelleshin, HEx1, mrdata 03:16 -!- Netsplit over, joins: sachy 03:18 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:41 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:44 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzhnsrkdhvqivlhm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:26 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:56 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:02 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:05 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:45 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@dhcp-108-170-158-198.cable.user.start.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:51 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52 < kanzure> CRO for what? 05:52 -!- mrdata_ is now known as mrdata 05:53 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:06 < andytoshi> kanzure: thanks for the transcript! 06:10 < kanzure> ya 06:23 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzhnsrkdhvqivlhm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:53 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:98ce:4565:c426:7a2b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:c8ca:1cd7:a3bf:3746] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:992f:b52:cd1f:bbcf] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:34 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:41 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 -!- Schattie [~Weird@204.48.46.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03 < kanzure> dna synthesis industry is still unwilling to really collaborate and put out numbers for roadmapping goals and cost reduction curves 08:14 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:26 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:26 < kanzure> "oligo synthesis isn't the real bottleneck, it's cloning!" 08:36 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogsahwmdwfhelptr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:16 -!- Mariu [~Jimmy98@cablelink-86-127-180-239.rdstm.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@dhcp-108-170-158-198.cable.user.start.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:32 -!- Mariu [~Jimmy98@cablelink-86-127-180-239.rdstm.ro] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:06 < kanzure> george church interview https://boingboing.net/2018/04/03/the-astounding-present-and-diz.html 10:08 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/TwistBioscience/status/980833243128848385 10:08 < yoleaux> We just completed $50 Million in financing to fuel advancement of digital storage in DNA & drug discovery: https://buff.ly/2H84K1X #SynBio #DNADataStorage https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZyeostX4AAxFPl.jpg (@TwistBioscience) 10:09 < kanzure> http://www.twistbioscience.com/company/press/50M-Financing 10:14 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:15 < kanzure> https://medium.com/neodotlife/andrew-hessel-human-genome-project-write-d15580dd0885 10:50 < kanzure> "Electric field controlled nanoscale contactless deposition using a nanofluidic scanning probe" https://aip.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.4931354 10:52 < kanzure> "Processive incorporation of deoxynucleoside triphosphate analogs by single-molecule DNA polymerase I (klenow fragment) nanocircuits" https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.5b02074 10:55 < kanzure> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-long-mris-artist-scientist-revealed-inner-workings-brain 11:03 -!- aeiousom1thing [aeiousomet@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@124.123.14.99] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:12 < kanzure> "A photon-driven micromotor can direct nerve fibre growth" https://www.nature.com/articles/nphoton.2011.287 11:17 < nmz787> hmm 11:17 < nmz787> that seems useful 11:20 < kanzure> i like how robert from nectome is very frank about "really this whole method was described in engines of creation why aren't y'all reading?" (although he also admits he just tried the most obvious thing and then later learned that drexler had recommended as much) 11:48 < nmz787> so who here is concerned with western/mass-manufactured mattresses, and off-gassing pthalates and/or flame retardents? 11:51 < nmz787> I am not sure if I should trash my bed for my upcoming child... heck I wonder myself if such offgassing could be reducing my mental/physical stamina and such... so subjecting a smaller organism who's still developing seems like it should not be good 11:51 < andytoshi> i wouldn't expect much off-gassing to occur after the first couple days 11:51 < nmz787> apparently most info says the flame retardants continually decompose and offgas 11:51 < andytoshi> fascinating 11:53 < nmz787> I am on the verge of buying a vinyl (would offgas pthalates for a while) bed cover and stuffing it with rice husk (sub-packetized in pillow cases, to prevent too much shifting) 11:53 < nmz787> (for a mattress) 12:04 < CaptHindsight> and infant wear is also required to be flame retardant 12:08 < CaptHindsight> not once did my kids ever burst into flames 12:32 -!- augur [~augur@2600:380:8646:9db0:b1cb:2a68:39dc:521] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:36 < JayDugger> Let me guess, nmz787, first kid? 12:37 < superkuh> Obviously the solution is to throw some mattresses in one of NASA's giant vacuum chambers. 12:39 < JayDugger> I am altering the child's metabolism such that the off-gassing stimulates growth. The child will probably put the bedding into its mouth, sooner or later. 12:40 < JayDugger> Excuse, "I am for altering," not "I am altering." 12:40 < JayDugger> Beg your pardon. 12:41 * adlai is not aware of any parenting which does not in some way consist of altering a child's metabolism, repeatedly, until either the child or the parent grow sick of the arrangement. 12:45 -!- augur [~augur@2600:380:8646:9db0:b1cb:2a68:39dc:521] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45 < nmz787> JayDugger: yes 12:47 < nmz787> CaptHindsight: yeah I noticed that too, was thinking the cotton kids clothes I'll be getting from India probably aren't certified for such 12:49 < kanzure> https://www.genomeweb.com/business-news/dna-script-awarded-55m-grant-funding#.WsUfEdPwZjs 12:50 < kanzure> "DNA Script announced today that it has been awarded $5.5 million in grant funding from the European Commission and French investment bank Bpifrance. DNA Script manufactures synthetic DNA and RNA using a proprietary enzymatic technology and nucleotide chemistry. Earlier this year, it acquired an exclusive license to a novel DNA building block for use in enzymatic DNA synthesis from Dynamic ... 12:50 < kanzure> ...Combinatorial Chemistry. According to Paris-based DNA Script, the grant money will be provided in the form of subsidies and refundable advances through the EC's Horizon 2020 European Innovation Council program and Bpifrance's innovation development programs. The grants follow a Series A financing round led by Illumina Ventures, in which dnascript raised €11 million ($13.5 million). It said ... 12:50 < kanzure> ...it has raised a total of $24 million to date." 12:51 < kanzure> dnascript has raised $24m? 12:51 < kanzure> that was today? so close to the twist raise..? hrm. 12:52 < kanzure> who is "dynamic combinatorial chemistry" 12:59 < fenn> millions and millions and millions and millions 14:09 < maaku> nmz787: You'll want a waterproof matress cover and I presume that would mitigate somewhat outgassing concerns. 14:15 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@124.123.14.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:18 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: well you can never be too safe :) https://imgur.com/r/Danger5/r96Dt 14:41 < nmz787> CaptHindsight: hahaha lol 14:42 < nmz787> maaku: I am gonna go checkout buying an all-natural mattress, apparently latex is known to be hypo-allergenic and stuff, and wool covers are approved as fire barriers/retardants 14:43 < nmz787> maaku: but good to know in general re: waterproofing 14:44 < nmz787> maaku: though that would be a lot easier overall, to just seal things in, hmm 14:47 < nmz787> hmm, the EVA bed cover I looked up has flame retardants built-in :P 14:50 < fenn> as long as you don't have a latex allergy 14:56 < nmz787> haha 14:56 < nmz787> I don't think so 14:59 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:55 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:40 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@185.232.22.18] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@185.232.22.18] has quit [Changing host] 16:52 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:56 < nmz787> kanzure: I was pretty upset I didn't check the auction on time to up my bid, on the STM gear that sold for $90 on ebay 16:57 < nmz787> s/was/am/ 17:00 < juul> ok we're working on a set of open wetware vectors, starting with a E. coli to P. pastoris shuttle vector for chromosomal integration. 17:00 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.166.242.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00 < juul> documenting the progress here: https://wiki.realvegancheese.org/index.php/E._coli_to_P._pastoris_shuttle_vector_for_chromosomal_integration 17:01 < juul> we'll also be doing one for non-chromosomal-integration use, and probably versions for S. cerevisiae + one for just E. coli 17:01 < juul> if you have any feature requests let me know! 17:02 < juul> we're doing the work of clearing everything of third party rights and having it synthesized without an MTA 17:02 < juul> so if you need something that isn't encumbered then this is a good way to get it 17:04 < Jenda> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/ 17:04 < yoleaux> Earthing: Health Implications of Reconnecting the Human Body to the Earth's Surface Electrons 17:04 < Jenda> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771483/ 17:04 < yoleaux> Differences in Blood Urea and Creatinine Concentrations in Earthed and Unearthed Subjects during Cycling Exercise and Recovery 17:04 < Jenda> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3154031/ 17:04 < yoleaux> Earthing the Human Body Influences Physiologic Processes 17:05 < Jenda> I don't claim I trust the results or that I'm familiar with the subject 17:06 < Jenda> but the results are... interesting and someone should maybe test what will happen with an artificial voltage bias 17:20 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogsahwmdwfhelptr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:23 < streety> just taken a look at the second article on urea and creatinine during exercise 17:24 < streety> Unless I'm very confused their discussion does not match up with the results they present 17:24 < streety> They claim an effect on BUN but downplay creatinine 17:25 < streety> Their data suggest no effect on urea 17:25 < streety> the creatinine effect is the only interesting piece, I don't know why bury it in the discussion 17:37 < Jenda> yeah, the first two seem to have sloppy statistics 17:42 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:43 < Jenda> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/p-hacking/ Sloppy study simulator :) 17:50 < kanzure> "is ACE-2494 related to angiotensin-converting enzyme?" 17:50 < kanzure> cc yashgaroth 17:51 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: adlai 18:05 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-103-223-018.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:05 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 -!- liead is now known as adlai 18:16 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/lsparrish/status/981679779324690432 18:16 < yoleaux> @antonioregalado @kanzure @eboyden3 Vitrification of a deceased brain that has been allowed to decay or die of natural causes is demonstrably lower quality, assuming the goal is information preservation. Censure of this would suggest denial of the best possible treatment, itself ethically problematic. (@lsparrish, in reply to tw:981247533753171969) 18:16 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/lsparrish/status/981681531415552000 18:16 < yoleaux> @antonioregalado @kanzure @eboyden3 I get what you were trying to say, but the headline "uploading service.. 100% fatal" was inappropriate. It made people think Nectome claims things they don't. Sure uploading is an eventual goal, but for now they are just talking about offering a somewhat better cryonics service. (@lsparrish, in reply to tw:981218601519722496) 18:17 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:24 < CaptHindsight> kanzure> dna synthesis industry is still unwilling to really collaborate and put out numbers for roadmapping goals and cost reduction curves 18:24 < kanzure> yeah in the consortium.. it's been difficult to get real answers from them. 18:25 < CaptHindsight> i worked for a place that did even want to use the term PCR for their DNA Multiplying Machine they asked me to build 18:25 < kanzure> you mean they didn't want to call it PCR? 18:25 < CaptHindsight> did/did not 18:25 < kanzure> ugh 18:25 < CaptHindsight> yeah 18:25 < CaptHindsight> i wasn't supposed to know :) 18:25 < kanzure> heh this is probably old hat to you... don't you get this type of shit from the inkjet industry? 18:26 < CaptHindsight> it just dunked bags of DNA "stuff" from one tank to another 18:26 < CaptHindsight> most industries I work in are that way 18:26 < kanzure> but isn't this bullshit? 18:26 < CaptHindsight> inks, inkjet, DNA 18:27 < CaptHindsight> they are all completely obsessively paranoid about control 18:27 < kanzure> this consortium is an opportunity for them to get their favorite tech into a widely-read roadmap... but they wont talk details. 18:27 < CaptHindsight> nope 18:27 < kanzure> and they certainly refuse to talk about costs or future potential prices 18:28 < kanzure> here's a writeup about the consortium, from today-ish https://medium.com/neodotlife/andrew-hessel-human-genome-project-write-d15580dd0885 18:28 < CaptHindsight> I just signed a consultant agreement where they wanted free roayalties to anything I developed while working with them, even though it crossed over into other people projects, so I had that clause removed 18:28 < nmz787> people milking investment and 'overhead' budget? 18:28 < CaptHindsight> it's me me fucking me 18:29 < kanzure> it's not even about establishing a healthy premium from which they can run their business... it's just a lot of secrecy and non-collaboration. 18:29 < CaptHindsight> no they are special, and the world revolves around them and they desrve it all, not you 18:29 < kanzure> they have probably never seen the benefits of a more lubricated industry 18:29 < CaptHindsight> exactly 18:29 < kanzure> so they wouldn't know what they are missing out. they probably aren't even aware that their behavior is not mandatory. 18:29 < CaptHindsight> lots of NIH syndrome as well 18:30 < CaptHindsight> but they do try to get free advice 18:30 < kanzure> do you know anyone else in inkjet doing open-source hardware? 18:30 < nmz787> this describes my day job in some ways "18:29 < kanzure> it's not even about establishing a healthy premium from which they can run their business... it's just a lot of secrecy and non-collaboration." 18:30 < CaptHindsight> if they find out you know more than them or are working on similar things but yours are better they clam up and disappear 18:31 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: no, because you can't, it's all under NDA 18:31 < CaptHindsight> unless you RE stuff without the NDA 18:32 < kanzure> well, anyway, the solution to this is to outcompete them and do better 18:32 < CaptHindsight> it's similar with electronics 18:32 < nmz787> kanzure: that article says timeline goal is 2050 or 2060 18:32 < kanzure> haha what 18:32 < CaptHindsight> all the good cpu stuff is under NDA if they will even work with you 18:33 < nmz787> "So you start looking at timelines like that, okay, well maybe someone will make a synthetic human baby when standing on decades and decades of increasing complexity and work, you know, somewhere around 2050 or 2060. We’re certainly going to be editing genomes sooner than that, but when it comes to complete synthesis, which is the way I’m framing this, it’s going to be a long time." 18:33 < kanzure> oh, hessel means a completely synthetic human genome 18:33 < kanzure> e.g. change every nucleotide 18:33 < kanzure> and build it from scratch 18:35 < CaptHindsight> I just found out that I'm a potential security threat since I've been making simultaneous motion on 5+ axis systems 18:35 < kanzure> check the commerce control list from the state department sometime... 5-axis and 6-axis stuff is in there. 18:35 < CaptHindsight> there is an export ban that requires special permits 18:35 < kanzure> commerce control list is like a holiday shopping guide for me 18:35 < CaptHindsight> yeah was just reading it the other day 18:35 < CaptHindsight> hehe 18:36 < CaptHindsight> are any DNA synthesis tools on the list? 18:36 < kanzure> hmm good question 18:37 < kanzure> https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/forms-documents/regulations-docs/13-commerce-control-list-index/file 18:37 < kanzure> https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear 18:39 < kanzure> page 26 says they aren't controlled- oligonucleotide synthesizers, protein sequencing, electrophoresis equipment, dna sequencing https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/product-guidance/1107-bioexport-pdf/file 18:39 < kanzure> hmmmm. 18:39 < CaptHindsight> maybe Biological manufacturing equipment & facilities ..........2B352 18:41 < CaptHindsight> – Spraying or Fogging Systems 18:41 < CaptHindsight> heh, Bio fog machines 18:43 < kanzure> "Class III biological safety cabinets or isolators with similar performance standards, e.g. , flexible isolators, dry boxes, anaerobic chambers, glove boxes or laminar flow hoods (closed with vertical flow)." 18:44 < CaptHindsight> look at oage 10 and 11 18:45 < CaptHindsight> Genetic elements include and not limited to Chromosomes Genomes Plasmids Transposons Vectors 18:45 < CaptHindsight> May be genetically modified or unmodified 18:45 < CaptHindsight> May be synthesized 18:47 < CaptHindsight> looks like they restrict ready made turn key things that may be used for biobadness 18:47 < kanzure> i wonder if i can get my genome classified as a bioweapon by this document 18:47 < CaptHindsight> and lose you passport? :) 18:48 < CaptHindsight> you/your 18:48 < kanzure> you raise a good point 18:48 < kanzure> music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doXQbMvIta4 18:52 < CaptHindsight> most co's are NDA happy 18:52 < CaptHindsight> unless it's really old tech they don't even want to talk about what they want to do until one is signed 18:53 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: i like defensive patent pools but i think something needs to be established for earlier stage projects, e.g. a more friendly "tech development collaboration agreement" that establishes that they are developing open tech or something, and either party is allowed to do whatever with restraints that primarily protect the openness. 18:53 < kanzure> *do whatever as long as they keep the project mostly open 18:54 < CaptHindsight> they all want the patent 18:54 < kanzure> open-source software works because the transaction cost is zero once everyone knows and agrees to the basic license 18:54 < CaptHindsight> small co's want it to borrow from investors 18:54 < kanzure> patent development agreements are costly to negotiate and you have to do a lot of weirdo negotiation before you even get to anything interesting (tech development) 18:55 < kanzure> i think that companies that participate in more open development can move faster 18:56 < kanzure> whole point is that it's mutually-enriching..... 18:56 < CaptHindsight> my experience has been they all like open source when it benefits them, like free office tools or machine control, but they don't want to pay for any new features and share them 18:56 < kanzure> well, you need someone who uses it as a primary strategy for tech development. 18:57 < CaptHindsight> we have been waiting for 6 months on guberment contractor to come up with $3k for some Linux patches for Scientific Linux 18:58 < CaptHindsight> and something packaged for the repo 18:58 < CaptHindsight> they just don't want to pay for something that they will have to share 18:58 < CaptHindsight> think of a 5 year old and candy 18:59 < kanzure> isn't this why you shouldn't give candy to a 5 year old? :) 19:00 < CaptHindsight> and will they want to share it even if given? 19:01 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:01 < CaptHindsight> the upper management typically doesn't care about anything other than themselves 19:01 -!- mrdata-- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:02 < CaptHindsight> doesn't matter if it cures cancer, the blind, solves hunger 19:02 < JayDugger> If that's your wish list, I will get you "Lavatories for military aircraft........................................................................................9A610.y.11" 19:02 < CaptHindsight> hehe 19:03 < JayDugger> Or "Leg irons...0A982" your choice. 19:04 < CaptHindsight> Electron beam equipment for projection image transfer 19:04 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: lots of EB controlled items 19:04 < JayDugger> I better stick with what I can afford. 19:05 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:05 -!- Guest75990 [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:13 < kanzure> yashgaroth: could you look at juul's chromosomal integration vector thing plzkthx 19:13 < kanzure> from earlier today 19:17 < yashgaroth> I don't see anything specifically for integration, so I assume the strategy is to linearize it and select for the few yeast that end up integrating the fragment w/ antibiotic selection 19:17 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19 < yashgaroth> man respecting patents sounds like a pain in the ass 19:26 -!- mrdata-- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52 -!- chironex [49681e48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.104.30.72] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:53 < kanzure> chironex: sup 19:53 < chironex> so wanna talk follistatin for muscular dystorophy? 19:54 < yashgaroth> what would you think about recombinant protein therapy instead 19:54 < chironex> I found this and it seems like a completely built follistatin therapy. AAV vector, CMV promotor for high expression https://www.vectorbiolabs.com/product/aav-209350-human-fst-over-expression-aav/ 19:55 < yashgaroth> that looks like it'll be absurdly expense for a human-sized dose 19:56 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:57 < chironex> well sure, but that's not why you buy that. It's got the AAV ITRs in it. All you need are the two other expression plasmids and you could use that to grow liters and liters of virus 19:58 < chironex> i wasn't thinking of that as a dose for a person 19:59 < yashgaroth> true, still gonna be expensive to culture that much virus, especially if you're growing it in mammalian cells...plus it's for injection rather than ingestion so virus purification is a pain 20:00 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has quit [Quit: ...and all my responses they stay the same.] 20:00 < yashgaroth> also ace-2494 just started clinical trials, it's a promising protein if we can generate a cell line that produces ~1g/L 20:01 < yashgaroth> too big for AAV since it's a heterodimer but direct protein injection has some advantages 20:03 < chironex> it's not that much of a pain to run that purification. There are kits that make it basically 3 steps. It's more the cell lines you use and regent quality. Just use animal free media for everything. And since it's a virus the dose you need isn't very high. Once it's in it'll just keep making more protein unlike a recombinant protein in ecoli or something which is purified elsewhere before every use. 20:04 < kanzure> if there's already a completely built follistatin therapy then maybe we should move on to something slightly different 20:04 < yashgaroth> I wouldn't worry about animal-free media, mad cow's pretty much eradicated 20:05 < kanzure> if there's reason to believe we can do follistatin overexpression better than those guys, then maybe that's worth attempting 20:06 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:6911:431:3745:eaa3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 < yashgaroth> idk how much AAV you get per kit, obv there's advantages to virus but if you can drop the recombinant protein cost down to $100/wk or something it becomes reasonable-ish 20:08 < yashgaroth> kanzure you mean ace-2494? we can produce it without having to recoup R&D costs or full-on GMP manufacturing clusterfuck so it wouldn't be too bad 20:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:103d:2e00:c8ca:1cd7:a3bf:3746] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:09 < kanzure> i mean the follistatin overexpression vector from vectorbiolabs.com 20:12 < yashgaroth> oh that's pretty standard, there's several places that'll sell the same thing; at any sort of scale we can outcompete them on price 20:12 < chironex> it's not neccisarily finished though. It would still need to be tested, and it would be worth considering if the base DNA should be changed. Is there a better promotor to use? Or other things to include on the plasmid? I see it as a good foundation rather than necassarily a finished product 20:14 < yashgaroth> we can just get a custom one synthesized, plus if you're consuming it when transfecting the producer cells you'd want to get it in a plasmid anyway 20:16 < kanzure> okay i thought yashgaroth had a specific complaint about follistatin overexpression as opposed to uh... some other overexpression or RNA interference procedure. 20:17 < yashgaroth> you said plasmid gene therapy which won't produce enough to see an effect, AAV might be different if you can make enough of it 20:17 < yashgaroth> big ol' If tho 20:18 < chironex> making a lot of aav isn't difficult. You can make 10^8 virus particles in a 5ml flask 20:19 < chironex> it's not neccisarily finished though. It would still need to be tested, and it would be worth considering if the base DNA should be changed. Is there a better promotor to use? Or other things to include on the plasmid? I see it as a good foundation rather than necassarily a finished product 20:19 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@ec2-52-29-251-54.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in] 20:19 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Quit: Its never too late!] 20:19 < chironex> oh woops wrong comment 20:19 < chironex> new to IRC 20:19 < chironex> and im a fan of going with a lower dose and letting it sit for a while. gene expression changes over time so it can take a while for the effect to fully peak 20:19 < yashgaroth> yeah but you'll need 10^13 or ^14 per person at least 20:19 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:20 < yashgaroth> especially if you're inducing immunity to AAV after the first dose, which, you will 20:20 < kanzure> ~immunosuppressants~ (you're already paralyzed due to muscular dystrophy so you ain't going anywhere inside your bubble anyway, right?) 20:20 < yashgaroth> CMV's pretty good as a promoter in muscle, there is silencing eventually but if you try to fix that you lower expression so much that it's not worth 20:21 < yashgaroth> oh right are we still saying it's for muscular dystrophy 20:22 < kanzure> *neglected* muscular dystrophy patients... approximately all 7.5 billion of them. 20:22 < yashgaroth> otherwise there's only so much optimization you can do inside AAV since it's so tiny, maybe throw an intron in but that's about it 20:24 < chironex> is it worthing adding a secretion sequence? then more of the protein will make it outside of the cells so it can affect other cells. should boost efficiency a bit without adding much length 20:26 < yashgaroth> follistatin has one natively so it should be okay, if it doesn't get secreted it won't even affect the cell that's producing it 20:31 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@124.123.14.99] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:03 < chironex> ok well that's convenient then. So then really all that's left would be to test different doses and see what's actually required to have an effect. If we don't need 10^13 particles, then there's no reason to use that much 21:05 < yashgaroth> depends how many willing subjects you have, after even a small dose they'll be basically immune to follow-ups, unless you give them enough immunosuppressants to necessitate a bubble-centric lifestyle for 1-2 months 21:06 < kanzure> oh it's only 2 months? 21:06 < yashgaroth> man what am I a bubble doctor 21:06 < yashgaroth> but roughly yeah 21:07 < yashgaroth> maybe longer if you're not doing dialysis and other fancy stuff, since we're erring on the side of caution 21:10 < nmz787> sounds tasty 21:24 -!- chironex [49681e48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.104.30.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:28 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:18 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:24 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:98ce:4565:c426:7a2b] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:04 -!- sachy [~sachy@78.108.102.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:35 -!- schindler_ [uid149928@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tujwasrqmrivprpu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:39 < schindler_> Hey kanzure, nmz787! I'm trying to get python BRL-CAD to work on OSX (it works on ubuntu otherwise) and keep running into an installation error. It'd be great to know if you have any idea how this could be resolved. https://pastebin.com/4JRNEuzp 23:39 < schindler_> For installing BRLCAD, I did cmake and i think it installed properly. I just had to change the BRLCAD_PREFIX from /usr/brlcad to /usr/local/brlcad because of the OSX's SIP thing. 23:40 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: ORGANS IN MAINS] 23:40 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-103-223-018.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Apr 05 00:00:39 2018