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06:18 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/8fux34/this_guy_created_the_first_madeathome_integrated/
06:18 < kanzure> alright we need to permaban beka
06:31 < kanzure> "Only one of the domain/wildcard pairs listed in Sci-Hub's certificate actually works for me right now. It's probable the certificate was revoked not because some publisher threatened legal action against Comodo, but because Sci-Hub no longer controls some of the domains listed in their certificate. If this is the case then they would be able to get a new certificate for free with those names ...
06:31 < kanzure> ...removed."
06:33 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/srikosuri/status/990409691791437824
06:33 < yoleaux> Big names in the machine learning community deciding together they are not going to review, submit, or edit for Nature Machine Intelligence https://openaccess.engineering.oregonstate.edu/home (@srikosuri)
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08:37 < fltrz> I don't understand geology/vulcanism
08:37 < fltrz> apparently
08:39 < fltrz> the upper mantle is predominantly peridotite (olivine and pyroxenes). these mineral react exothermically with CO2 (but also with water). so when this magma exits a volcano, how does it release CO2?? it should absorb CO2 releasing more heat
08:40 < fltrz> then we observe global cooling which is currently ascribed to the aerosols increasing albedo (reflecting light)
08:41 < fltrz> I also never understood how such a viscous thing as magma can be so violent as if it was boiling (it is just above melting point, not actually boiling, no gaseous rock vapor!)
08:41 < fltrz> if you watch videos from fresh magma in volcanos its spewwing magma all over the place
08:42 < fltrz> I never could explain that: air is volatile, so the hot air in contact with magma heats and quickly rises, so a lot of heat should leave by convection.
08:43 < fenn> Z1 was the first computer built by konrad zuse
08:43 < fltrz> one could counterpoint by saying that similarly fresh heat is supplied by convecting magma, but magma is much more viscous than air!
08:43 < fltrz> so now I am starting to see a completely inverse explanation of volcanos
08:44 < fenn> water dissolved in the magma is what is boiling
08:44 < fltrz> fenn, sure, but upon evaporation water takes a lot of latent heat away
08:45 < fenn> there are large pressure differences
08:45 < fltrz> so I start to think that magma in contact with (atmospheric) CO2 is what is heating it
08:45 < fenn> that's retarded
08:45 < fenn> do you not believe in uranium decay?
08:46 < fltrz> yes I do
08:46 < fenn> the magma is already hot and under pressure
08:46 < fenn> when it escapes through a crack the pressure is relieved and water comes out as a gas
08:46 < fltrz> yes like a soda drink
08:46 < fltrz> upon opening the bottle
08:47 < fltrz> I don't deny that it is there, I am pointing at the mobility of heat
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08:47 < fltrz> where the steam escapes, the magma is quickly cooled
08:47 < fenn> the heat of water boiling is miniscule compared to the thermal capacity of the magma, because it is much denser
08:48 < fltrz> yet magma flows for hours out of a volcano
08:48 < fenn> magma is also under pressure just due to gravity
08:50 < fltrz> anyway, I was just *considering* the influencee of CO2 on igneous rocks (olivine, pyroxene)
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08:52 < fltrz> since the exothermic conversion of olivine and pyroxene to carbonates by CO2 also expands the volume, it would also explain why the volcanos are bumps
08:53 < fenn> volanoes are not made from carbonates are they?
08:54 < fltrz> well, earth is salty
08:54 < fenn> "They are very rare, but there are carbonatite lavas. They erupt from volcanoes that form over thick, stable, continental crust. ... Oldoinyo Lengai. Old carbonate lavas are not found because they are soluble in water"
08:54 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol_Doinyo_Lengaihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol_Doinyo_Lengai
08:55 < fltrz> exactly, they are soluble, so with erosion and rain eventually they flow to the sea making the sea salty
08:55 < fenn> "It erupts with the lowest-temperature lava in the world, at 500–600 °C"
08:56 < fenn> i think carbonates have a lower melting point
08:57 < fltrz> well I another reason I started considering the idea, was because volcano eruptions also cool the earth, so I thought it might be partially due to their absorbing CO2
08:57 < fenn> the enormous stratospheric clouds of ash and dust don't do it for you?
08:58 < fltrz> not that CO2 powered interpretation of volcanoes is good news, to the contrary
08:59 < fltrz> where does CO2 that is supposedly released from volcanic eruptions come from? and is this so or is this disinfo from climate sceptics?
08:59 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/Riauw5UTnW8
08:59 < yoleaux> NASA | Sarychev Volcano Eruption from the International Space Station - YouTube
08:59 < fltrz> fenn, look, I don't deny the albedo effect at all!
09:00 < fenn> der.. what
09:00 < fltrz> exactly because it is the most obvious explanation was I intrigued into a possible overseen contribution
09:00 < fenn> CO2 from volcanoes is disinfo now?
09:00 < fltrz> I am asking, where does the CO2 come from
09:01 < fltrz> or is that only due to lava burning nearby woods?
09:01 < fenn> "the world's volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year"
09:01 < fenn> most volcanoes have no nearby woods
09:01 < fltrz> right
09:02 < fltrz> so in what form is CO2 present in the mantle?
09:02 < fenn> "Much of the CO2 released at subduction zones is derived from the metamorphism of carbonate rocks subducting with the ocean crust"
09:02 < fltrz> or is it pure carbon, that then gets oxidised (burns) as it comes into contact with oxygen during eruption?
09:03 < fenn> "Much of the overall outgassing CO2, expecially as midocean ridges and hotpot volcanoes, was stored in the mantle when the Earth formed. Some of the outgassed carbon remains as CO2 in the atmosphere, some is dissolved in the oceans, some carbon is held as biomass in living or dead and decaying organisms, and some is bound in carbonate rocks."
09:04 < fenn> i don't know how we know whether it's CO2 or C
09:04 < fltrz> thanks
09:07 < fltrz> just to explain what I was visualizing (probably incorrect as you state, I am merely exploring the idea): by analogy with rusting iron, the top layer oxidizes with air, the oxide is larger in size so flakes of rust crumple loose, allowing fresh iron to get oxidized and so on
09:07 < fenn> "Le Voyer, Hauri, and their team analyzed some basalt samples from the equatorial mid-Atlantic ridge that contained previously unstudied tiny magmatic inclusions, small pockets of pure magma that were completely trapped inside solid crystals that protected them from degassing during magma ascent and eruption. Analysis showed that these inclusions had trapped their original carbon content before
09:07 < fenn> being erupted on the seafloor."
09:07 < fltrz> but instead of iron, the olivine and pyroxenes; and instead of oxygen carbon dioxide
09:07 < fenn> presumably they used carbon dating to determine it was the original carbon
09:08 < fenn> since it says "degassing" i guess it's CO2
09:12 < fltrz> but if the predominant material of the mantle is olivine and pyroxene, and if CO2 is dissolved, and if their reaction is exothermic... why would CO2 not already have reacted to form the carbonates?
09:13 < fenn> because reactions that are exothermic at one set of temperatures and pressures, are no longer exothermic at a different set of temperatures and pressures
09:14 < fenn> for example, water heated to a high enough temperature dissociates into H2 and O2
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09:14 < fenn> if you heat calcium carbonate in a kiln, it evolves CO2
09:15 < fenn> you can try this with sodium bicarbonate and an oven
09:16 < fltrz> could you take a look at the reactions on the bottom right of the first page of doi 10.1073/pnas.0805794105 please? 2a and 2b
09:17 < fenn> oh wait that makes sodium carbonate, nevermind
09:17 < fltrz> sure, but we are almost saying the same thing, as the lava cools, it outgasses CO2, and so in the bottom of the volcano well, theres lots of CO2, and as temperature falls they do react exothermically
09:18 < fltrz> the CO2 released from below can turn a small percentage of magma into its carbonate form keeping the magma molten by heat
09:19 < fenn> yes that probably happens
09:19 < fenn> then the surface is converted and stops reacting. the remainder solidifies as it cools
09:19 < fltrz> i.e. as the lava from below supplies fresh CO2, it ccan react with the lava above and keep it hot, instead of convecting heat (too viscous) its passing on CO2
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09:20 < fenn> i don't think there's that much CO2, and it's not that mobile in the viscous solution
09:20 < fltrz> and as the lava flows out of the volcano, it is much less violent, but still CO2 from atmosphere can diffuse in at least the outer layer of the lava stream, holding the lava liquid for a longer time
09:21 < fenn> with those carbonate veins, it looks like the rock solidified and then cracked, and CO2 passed through the cracks making carbonates
09:21 < fltrz> (other wise the outer shell would quickly solidify, immobilizing the molten lava in the middle)
09:22 < fltrz> yes, thats what I started seeing, the veins work in both ways, for lava to come up, but potentially for CO2 to power exothermic conversion to carbonates as well
09:24 < fenn> no the cracks are too small for lava to flow through
09:24 < fenn> it would solidify quickly
09:24 < fltrz> before the great oxygenation, what was the atmosphere?
09:24 < fltrz> right
09:25 < fenn> CO2 and nitrogen and argon and water, maybe methane
09:26 < fltrz> so just pretend to agree with my initial hypothesis for a minute: if CO2 concentration rises, the rate of volcanic eruptions increase, and over time the new igneous rock can over time convert to carbonates
09:27 < fltrz> so its not an immediate equilibrium mechanism but a delayed one
09:27 < fltrz> in this interpretation there would have been more volcanos during the time of high CO2 levels
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09:29 < fltrz> if true (probably not) this is good news on a longer time scale, that eventually high CO2 levels are absorbed by fresh igneous rock, but on a short timescale it releases lots of CO2, and we get more volcanos
09:30 < fenn> CO2 would be absorbed by fresh igneous rock even without this mechanism
09:30 < fenn> the rate is limited by rock weathering
09:31 < fenn> i think you need to make a quantitative model
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09:31 < fenn> there is pretty much every reaction you can think of going on all the time
09:35 < fltrz> what is this "fresh igneous rock" if not from volcanos? at some point all the rocks were molten during the formation of the earth
09:36 < fenn> there's more than enough igneous rock laying around to absorb all the CO2 from the biosphere
09:36 < fenn> if you burned every forest
09:37 < fltrz> what is your opinion of the idea of capturing CO2 by reacting it with olivine and pyroxene to form carbonates? it makes little sense to me as eventually these salts flow to the ocean in rivers, and then the carbonates dissociate and the salts dissociate and we get carbonated water
09:37 < fenn> the proposals involve injecting CO2 deep into dry fractured rock, for example "fracking" gas wells
09:38 < fenn> my opinion is that it's a phenomenal waste of carbon
09:38 < fenn> future generations will be pissed they have to go and dig up all this carbon instead of pulling it out of the air
09:38 < fenn> but good luck convincing anyone of that
09:39 < fenn> same thing with the destruction of our helium reserve
09:39 < fltrz> yes, I was also thinking that we might end up missing the carbon after all
09:41 < fenn> if this is what it takes to save the coral, i'm all for it
09:41 < fenn> i don't think it will even happen though
09:42 < fenn> things will get worse until solar and fusion become cheap enough to make carbon electricity production obsolete
09:42 < fenn> oil will still be used for plastics and high performance aerospace
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09:43 < fltrz> and packaging?
09:43 < fenn> fun tangent, go to http://earth.nullschool.net and click on the "chem" control, and you can step back and forth in time with the arrows to see CO2 being evolved and absorbed
09:44 < fenn> packaging is made of plastics...
09:45 < fenn> i'm still confused why we don't have super cheap thin film solar everywhere
09:45 < fenn> ovshinsky died and uni-solar went bankrupt and nobody stepped up to replace him?
09:46 < fenn> in the tour of uni-solar's factory you see this big empty conveyor belt whizzing by, eventually you realize it's the solar film being produced at multiple meters per second
09:47 < fenn> it's a microwave plasma vapor deposition process
09:47 < fltrz> is the increase in gamma radiation in a deep borehole due to uranium measurable? (in boreholes not related to mining)
09:48 < fenn> why would it be higher in a deep borehole and not a shallow one?
09:48 < fltrz> fenn, any links for the uni-solar plant?
09:48 < fltrz> fenn, more steradians of molten rock?
09:49 < fltrz> (assuming both a uniform or increasing with depth distribution of uranium in the mantle)
09:53 < fenn> it's the machine behind him in http://youtu.be/Vw6R2j3OTXQ
09:54 < fenn> i thought i remembered seeing the substrate going through it in a different clip
09:54 < fenn> this is from "who killed the electric car"
09:59 < fltrz> I think solar is not being placed since a lot of people rent? or want to pay of debt first?
10:00 < fltrz> debt or mortgage
10:00 < fltrz> when the rent-seekers have finished their champagne we will care about the world?\
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11:35 < adlai> what are they champagning against?
11:52 < fenn> hmm maybe i'll make a hat out of mini flexible solar cells
12:26 < kanzure> doing ourselves a gp-write meeting tomorrow
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12:39 < kanzure> SIGHASH_NOINPUT https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-April/015908.html
12:45 < fltrz> I presume they just toast each other?
12:54 < kanzure> you can't have my toast god damn it
13:05 < kanzure> https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/9kgpk5/youtube-is-removing-nootropics-channels
13:22 < kanzure> who is in boston
14:43 < kanzure> "Certain ceratioids rely on parabiotic reproduction. ... The male becomes dependent on the female host for survival by receiving nutrients via their shared circulatory system, and provides sperm to the female in return"
14:58 < Douhet> :/
14:59 < Douhet> Shame about the bans
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15:39 < kanzure> hung out with marblestone. that was fun.
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20:58 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A
20:58 < yoleaux> SM64 - Watch for Rolling Rocks - 0.5x A Presses (Commentated) - YouTube
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--- Log closed Tue May 01 00:00:04 2018