--- Log opened Tue May 01 00:00:04 2018
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04:11 < kanzure> hmph
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05:25 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/biorxiv_genomic/status/986994261236375552
05:25 < yoleaux> Circularization of genes and chromosome by CRISPR in human cells http://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/304493v1 #biorxiv_genomic (@biorxiv_genomic)
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06:39 < kanzure> ugh
06:48 < kanzure> okay this is already rotting my brain
06:54 < kanzure> alright is any of this bioethics stuff falsifiable?
06:54 < kanzure> how is this science
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07:06 < archels> maybe what bioethics needs is more simulations
07:07 < archels> run some Monte Carlo simulations with agents of different "morality" (according to the definitions of the researcher), run world, check if catastrophe occurs within n years
07:07 < archels> then squeeze that into a probability distribution
07:10 < archels> kanzure: I'm meeting David Pearce and Stefan Sorgner in a couple of weeks, anything I should ask them?
07:11 < kanzure> tell pearce to stop making the world suffer with his philosophy; he hswould build things, not write blog posts.
07:12 < kanzure> perpetuation of philosophy is a net evil  if it does not actually increase your effectiveness
07:12 < archels> it would be pretty great to have him work in the lab on the good cause, aye
07:37 < kanzure> .title https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/fhsc-ucr043018.php
07:37 < yoleaux> Ultra-safe cells resistant to natural viruses announced as first GP-write major project | EurekAlert! Science News
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08:40 < fltrz> science is really just a term referring to (hopefully) coherent belief systems, optimized to have the lowest number of axioms, and such that as many as possible observations can be derived from those assumptions, by means of theorems
08:41 < fltrz> science minus ethics, is all those belief systems dealing with the real world without dealing with human desires/goals/... i.e. statements in physics will relate physical quantities like voltage=current*resistance
08:42 < fltrz> statements containing concepts of desirability, are automatically outside of "science minus ethics", since they are a part of ethics
08:43 < fltrz> so yes, ethics is falsifiable, by means of different kinds of polls, say democracy, or perhaps polls, or perhaps informed polls where your answer only counts if you prove you understand all the statements
08:44 < kanzure> .title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05043-x
08:44 < yoleaux> Scientists downsize bold plan to make human genome from scratch
08:44 < kanzure> ahahaha
08:47 < fltrz> in a sense cryptography is a caricature of ethics: assuming Alice and Bob have a certain goal, and Eve some conflicting goal
08:48 < fltrz> its the study of realpolitik
09:06 < fenn> "ultra-safe" == "virus resistant" ?
09:07 < kanzure> fenn: ya
09:11 < kanzure> fenn: any last minute thoughts about what i should say about intellectual property?
09:11 < kanzure> to the gp-write group
09:12 < kanzure> in a few moments
09:12 < fenn> there are only patents, trademarks, and copyright
09:12 < fenn> "intellectual property" is a myth
09:12 < fenn> oh and FDA exclusivity
09:13 < fenn> i don't think anything you say to IP believers will change their minds
09:13 < fenn> rather it's more useful to present the fact that there are people who think the whole system is a sham, and they ought to have a place at the table
09:14 < fenn> most young people don't believe in IP at all, regardless of the law
09:14 < kanzure> i was thinking like "IP is unethical" or something
09:15 < kanzure> dunno
09:15 < kanzure> open-source uses a lot of IP magic, really.
09:15 < kanzure> and people seem to think it's a fucking free-for-all
09:16 < fenn> people are just unaware of the enormous burden IP imposes on society
09:16 < fenn> we would be in a jetsons future if it weren't for IP
09:18 < fenn> for every successful investment there are hundreds or thousands of "we can't do that because so-and-so has a patent on it"
09:18 < kanzure> "but muh investors wont invest!!!"
09:18 < fenn> if the technology is promising, investors will invest regardless of the IP status
09:19 < fenn> if the technology sucks, they will find something else to blame it on
09:19 < fenn> business people really do talk about "first mover advantage"
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09:19 < kanzure> zeno's prime mover advantage
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09:20 < fenn> from that nature article, it sounds like george church is including a lot of companies that aren't actually cooperating
09:21 < kanzure> cooperation just means they agreed to put their name on it
09:21 < kanzure> so.... yeah..
09:21 < fenn> but will they join a patent pool?
09:22 < kanzure> they haven't agreed to anything like that
09:24 < kanzure> .wik aaron traywick
09:24 < yoleaux> "Aaron Traywick, CEO of Ascendance Biomedical, was a life extension activist in the transhumanism and biohacking communities who self-developed and self-administered CRISPR-Cas9 gene editing therapies in hopes of making widely accessible and inexpensive treatments available to the public for heretofore incurable conditions such as AIDS and  …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Traywick
09:24 < kanzure> "Traywick was found dead floating face-down in a sensory deprivation isolation tank in Washington, DC over the weekend of May 1st, 2018. He was 28 years old.[17][18]"
09:27 < fenn> woah
09:28 < fenn> did he leave a suicide note?
09:28 < kanzure> i'm at harvard medical school about to speak, not sure
09:36 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/4LOVofScience/status/991326381429608448
09:36 < yoleaux> Aaron Traywick, CEO of the controversial Ascendance Biomedical has been found dead. Despite our differences, sad to see him go. https://www.facebook.com/josiah.zayner/posts/10103335916299167 (@4LOVofScience)
10:10 < JayDugger> drug overdose, or just drowning? any idea?
10:28 < fenn> DC police say they have no evidence of foul play at this time
10:40 < JayDugger> Thank you.
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11:45 < kanzure> gp-write meeting has been profoundly boring
11:45 < kanzure> is this what life is like for bored people?
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12:58 < kanzure> blort
12:59 < kanzure> multi-virus resistance infographic https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcIjSrCVAAAmXHa.jpg:large
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14:24 < nmz787> sup
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15:47 < nmz787> https://doi.org/10.1021/acs.analchem.8b00774
15:47 < nmz787> .title
15:47 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
15:47 < nmz787> Fabrication of a microfluidic flame atomic emission spectrometer: a flame-on-a-chip
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18:15 < yashgaroth> regalado tech review articles: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/535661/engineering-the-perfect-baby/ and https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609204/eugenics-20-were-at-the-dawn-of-choosing-embryos-by-health-height-and-more/
18:16 < kanzure> he was mentioning a company 'healthy happy baby inc' or something that got a bunch of academics and the prime minister all flustered (designer baby startup)
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18:18 < yashgaroth> also the orwig lab http://orwiglab.org/ and I presume there's a copy of this somewhere https://www.nap.edu/catalog/24623/human-genome-editing-science-ethics-and-governance
18:20 < yashgaroth> yeah all the stuff for 'healthy happy baby' seems to be generic parenting sites, maybe they went under real hard
18:22 < kanzure> also, george says the 1970s human cloning book was bunk
18:22 < kanzure> his evidence was recent difficulty with monkey cloning
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18:23 < JayDugger> How did that old book come up?
18:24 < kanzure> andrew hessel is a believer.. he mentioned it to me on a phone call a few months ago.
18:25 < JayDugger> Okay. I didn't think anyone still took that seriously. I have underestimated my own ignorance.
18:25 < kanzure> george doesn't take it seriously
18:26 < yashgaroth> link btw https://www.amazon.com/his-image-cloning-man/dp/0397012551
18:28 < kanzure>  /query yashgaroth
18:28 < kanzure> fuck
18:49 < kanzure> "Before 1842 everyone referred to these fossilized bones as dragon bones. Understand, no one, in all of world history, believed there were dinosaurs before 1842. Everyone believed in the historical evidence of dragons."
18:50 < kanzure> now there's a conspiracy theory i can get behind (hiding evidence of dragons/dinosaurs)
19:18 < nmz787> which 1970s cloning book shouldn't be taken seriously?
19:19 < nmz787> oh, that last link?
19:19 < yashgaroth> mhm
19:20 < nmz787> I am sort of worried that we might delete something that will wipe out these envisioned clones/h+ people in like 300 years by some disease found after artic thawing or something
19:21 < nmz787> sort of, because I'd rather have some formal way to ease my mistrust
19:22 < yashgaroth> still worth it
19:22  * yashgaroth sleep
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--- Log closed Wed May 02 00:00:05 2018