--- Log opened Mon May 07 00:00:10 2018 00:01 < nmz787> some friends of mine said at this point the only thing that's going to help him properly develop is hearing my or his mother's voice reading things to him... not some other persons, and not flashcards... so I will do some literature search if I can to see if LCD-display flashing high-contrast glyphs at him is really detrimental, or just not as effective as doing it ourselves (in which case it still 00:01 < nmz787> seems like if we do our part, it will be augmenting him) 00:01 < nmz787> he seemed reasonably enamored when I had him propped on my chest towards the screen and I was coding it ;) 00:02 < nmz787> and also earlier when my wife ran it and read to him along with the audio clips 00:03 < nmz787> so I will at least add the pimsleur sequencing/repetition... will have to think about how to do it, as of now the software is just doing a web-request for each word and audio clip, no caching or anything such that I really have a set to start with (I build one though through time, only the strings, not the audio) 00:29 < maaku> nmz787: context? is there a developmental issue? 00:29 < maaku> otherwise your friends are 100% right. just spend time with the little one. 00:29 < maaku> it's a human being, not a machine 00:37 < nmz787> no developmental issue, but I'd like it to be able to speak 33.6kbaud analog modem as it's second language 00:39 < nmz787> my thought was really just... if there is ever any time where we both need to put him down for 3 minutes, rather than just have him stare at the ceiling, why not audio/visual high-contrast slow-paced flashcards 00:39 < nmz787> all the research seems to be on TV and fast-paced cartoons, rather than primarily text screen-time 00:43 < nmz787> "Dial-up sound 700% slower (Creepy) 00:43 < nmz787> " 00:50 < nmz787> http://echd430-f13-love.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/Pediatrics%20article.pdf/447420452/Pediatrics%20article.pdf 00:51 < nmz787> "The concern that television might play a role in the development of ADHD is founded on the neurodevelopmental theory discussed earlier. In contrast to the pace with which real life unfolds, television, particularly television directed at young infants, typically employs rapid scene changes and quick edits. These formal features of the medium are used to engage infants’ orienting response, the 00:51 < nmz787> primitive reflex that fixes attention on strange sights or sounds, effectively keeping them focused on the screen. However, the surreal aspects of the scenes may be overstimulating to developing brains, training them in effect to expect intense input and making reality underwhelming or even boring by comparison." 00:53 < nmz787> "A 1973 study found that children who watched Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood in a lab setting or played instead of watching any TV had greater tolerance for delay immediately afterward than children who had watched Batman (25). In another study, those who watched Power Rangers had shorter attentional capacity immediately afterward than those who had watched Mr. Rogers or played (71). Finally, another 00:53 < nmz787> study found no difference in impulsivity after children watched 40 min of slow-paced or fast-paced versions of Sesame Street (72). This study may have produced a negative result because of small sample size or because the pacing of educational content is less important than the type of content." 00:54 < nmz787> "In 2004, we conducted a large observational study of over 1300 children and found a modest association between TV viewing before age 3 and attentional problems at age 7 (73). In that study, parents were prospectively asked how much television their child watched when they were between 1 and 2 years of age and again how much they watched when they were between 3 and 4 years of age. At age 7, they 00:54 < nmz787> completed the Behavioural Problems Index which includes questions related to attention and impulsivity (73). The more TV children watched as infants, the more likely they were to have attentional problems at age 7 after adjusting for an exhaustive list of co-variates. Specifically, each hour of TV watched on average was associated with an increased risk of being in the 90(th) percentile for 00:54 < nmz787> attentional problems (OR 1.09 [1.03–1.15]). A follow-up study claimed to refute these findings (74) but TV viewing was measured at age 5 and attention was measured at age 6, placing the exposure period outside the first 3 critical years of life. Indeed emerging data now suggest that the timing of exposure is a critical mediator of effects which is consistent with the developmental theory of early 00:54 < nmz787> brain development (75)." 00:55 < nmz787> boring-ass flashcards still seem harmless... but I'm still open ears 00:56 < fenn> it's hard to do worse than those shitty AI generated youtube videos 00:56 < fenn> mix in some nature documentaries 00:57 < fenn> might be good for the parents as well :P 01:16 < nmz787> eh, we've already taken him hiking 3x in the past 4 days 01:16 < nmz787> so he's good on analog nature I think 01:18 < nmz787> was thinking of taking him camping, after reading this article saying it was successful https://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/camping-with-a-newborn-forging-his-future-or-just-nuts/ 01:41 -!- schindler_ [uid149928@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncykwwswvkjnwxux] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:12 < maaku> nmz787: get him a mobie, or one of those baby blankets with the chew tabs 02:13 < maaku> the problem with screentime is he's an embodied intelligence and screens are very, very focused media 02:13 < maaku> can't touch it. can't taste it. can't bend it. 02:14 < maaku> that's really the instincts a baby have to work on and develop at that stage 02:14 -!- red-001 [red@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-emjyahrlbblykzow] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15 < maaku> I mean tech has a purpose. I tought my daughter to sight read with Anki. 02:15 < maaku> But I do think you're overthinking it. 02:34 -!- red-001 [red@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nuizpcxikpqorfep] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:00 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:09 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:27 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:04 -!- doctorholliday [~DEVIL@69.47.77.40] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:07 -!- doctorc [~DEVIL@69.47.77.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:12 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:01 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:16 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:22 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:24 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:42 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BobMcElrath/status/993260418146750465 05:42 < yoleaux> @kanzure They don't seem to have calculated the necessary radius of curvature to keep the centrifugal force within reason...and they wouldn't like the answer. You're better off with a linear accelerator. (@BobMcElrath, in reply to tw:993231645028290565) 05:42 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKb75boOMg 05:42 < yoleaux> Portable Mini Slingatron ( Powerful ) - YouTube 05:51 < kanzure> https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/optogenetics-understanding-the-brain-one-flash-of-light-at-a-time 05:55 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@107.181.165.170] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:01 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- archels_ [charl@toad.stack.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:11 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: DataPacRat, bluebear_, TC, archels, Qfwfq 06:17 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-obkmrdjofkdvjnyz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:17 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-obkmrdjofkdvjnyz] has quit [Changing host] 06:17 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:17 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Changing host] 06:17 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-obkmrdjofkdvjnyz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@ip-173-247-141-132.user.start.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:19 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:21 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:32 -!- Gurkenglas_ [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-102-074-205.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:49 < kanzure> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/03/magazine/money-issue-bangladesh-billion-dollar-bank-heist.html 06:57 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@pool-72-82-145-98.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:33 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@ip-173-247-141-132.user.start.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:34 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@ip-173-247-141-132.user.start.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:40 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@pool-72-82-145-98.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34 < kanzure> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2140550/why-chinese-sperm-donors-now-have-answer-partys-call 09:05 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:e892:8354:2841:e0cb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:09 -!- lewl [~lewl@BC068A70.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16 -!- lewl [~lewl@BC068A70.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:22 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:50 -!- jtimon [~quassel@50-200-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pohllucfwlumvqbi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:54 -!- QuadIgni [~FourFire@234.103.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@107.181.165.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:59 -!- gabbar1947 [uid205515@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtrnpxbzvcgtcttd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:18 < kanzure> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/05/aaron-traywick-death-ascendance-biomedical/559745/?single_page=true 10:18 -!- lewl [~lewl@BC068A70.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [] 10:20 < nmz787> https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-nearly-as-bad-as-trading-harvested-baby-brains-berkshire-vc-munger/ 10:21 < nmz787> I think they meant "as good as trading" 10:22 < nmz787> maaku: well at this point he can't really move too much, so the whole "let him explore his world" is still a bit premature... but I get ya that the flashcards aren't wholesome enough... I really just thought they might be better than staring at the ceiling while I i.e. make coffee and he's just laying there on his back in his pillow-hammock sleeper thing 10:24 < nmz787> kanzure: does that traywick article say anything worthwhile? It seems people really want to make a huge deal about this, articles being all like "what does this mean for biohacking" and I'm here like "nothing, why would you even ask that" 10:26 < kanzure> nothing worthwhile 10:26 < kanzure> it's a hilarious circus 10:39 -!- winsoff [~bar@unaffiliated/winsoff] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:39 < winsoff> What's the name for replacing your entire brain with nanobot neurons? 10:43 < kanzure> brain uploading 10:44 < kanzure> theseus's revenge 10:44 < winsoff> lol 10:44 < winsoff> There's a more specific name, I think, involving some author's name 10:46 < kanzure> drexlerian molecular nanotechnology 10:48 < kanzure> .gc "share this dragon. if you do, lucky end for them and you." 10:48 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed. 10:48 < winsoff> That could be, but NO 10:50 -!- schindler_ [uid149928@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncykwwswvkjnwxux] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:57 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:59 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.112.82.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.112.82.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.81.116.242] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:37 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@173-9-124-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:45 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.81.116.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:01 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@234.103.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 -!- QuadIgni [~FourFire@234.103.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:08 -!- lewl [~lewl@BC068A70.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:13 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.112.82.243] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:15 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@73.112.82.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@234.103.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37 -!- lewl [~lewl@BC068A70.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [] 12:38 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pohllucfwlumvqbi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:42 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:57 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zlanshtjysemuppb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:41 < JayDugger> winsoff, you want the adjective "uninvented," but if you really want an answer, it would help to know in what year you read it, and the title of the book in which you read it would be better. 13:44 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-102-074-205.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:46 -!- EnabrinTain_ [sid11525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqsmslaonrmhdaad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:51 -!- pepesza- [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Gurkenglas_, EnabrinTain, formsdothis[m], entity8421[m], pepesza 13:54 -!- EnabrinTain_ is now known as EnabrinTain 13:55 -!- entity8421[m] [entity8421@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vbdxiyluvahrmlen] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:55 -!- namespace [~user@li72-90.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:56 -!- formsdothis[m] [formsdothi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wcilvezcfjafljfa] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:56 < fenn> mumble mumble gradual replacement 13:58 -!- namespace [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe7b:227f] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:59 < fenn> the thingy in the video is not a slingatron 13:59 < fenn> needs more hula hoop action 14:16 < fenn> heroic AI stops billion dollar bank heist, goes unrecognized 14:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:57 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zlanshtjysemuppb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:37 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:01 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-102-074-205.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:16 < kanzure> python environmental protection agency https://xkcd.com/1987/ 16:51 < fenn> not so bad really, and he's not even using any virtual environments 16:59 < streety> ~/newenv ? 16:59 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03 < fenn> virtualenv 17:03 < fenn> uh, that's odd. kanzure timed out even though we're on the same server 17:03 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | as investigated by the fbi weapons of mass destruction division | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church 17:08 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Tue Aug 29 14:28:51 2017] 17:08 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 17:08 [ abetusk ] [ dustinm ] [ juri_ ] [ preview ] 17:08 [ adlai ] [ ebowden ] [ justanotheruser] [ Qfwfq ] 17:08 [ AgenttiX ] [ eleitl ] [ juul ] [ rancyd ] 17:08 [ andytoshi ] [ EnabrinTain ] [ kershaw[m] ] [ red-001 ] 17:08 [ anonnumberanon] [ ensign ] [ kuldeep_ ] [ redlegion ] 17:08 [ archels_ ] [ entity8421[m] ] [ lewl__ ] [ s0ph1a ] 17:08 [ balrog ] [ ExeciN ] [ maaku ] [ saurik ] 17:08 [ bbrittain ] [ fenn ] [ Madars ] [ sivoais ] 17:08 [ berndj ] [ fltrz ] [ Malvolio ] [ Solgriffin ] 17:08 [ bsm1175321 ] [ formsdothis[m]] [ markanini ] [ srk ] 17:08 [ Burn_ ] [ gabbar1947 ] [ mgxm ] [ streety ] 17:08 [ CandleGlow ] [ gnusha ] [ midnightmagic ] [ superkuh ] 17:08 [ caraka ] [ gwillen ] [ mrdata_ ] [ Taek ] 17:08 [ catern ] [ hackoon ] [ namespace ] [ thundara ] 17:08 [ cloudcell ] [ heath ] [ nanotube ] [ TMA ] 17:08 [ Cory ] [ hehelleshin ] [ nickjohnson ] [ traumschule] 17:08 [ cpc26 ] [ HEx1 ] [ nmz787 ] [ void_3301 ] 17:08 [ DataPacRat ] [ Hooloovo0 ] [ nsh ] [ winsoff ] 17:08 [ dequ ] [ JayDugger ] [ pasky ] [ y0no ] 17:08 [ doctorholliday] [ Jenda ] [ pepesza- ] [ yashgaroth ] 17:08 [ Douhet ] [ Joshchamp__ ] [ pompolic ] [ yoleaux ] 17:08 [ drewbot ] [ jrayhawk ] [ potatope ] [ yorick ] 17:08 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 88 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 88 normal] 17:08 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 17:08 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 12 secs 17:10 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 -!- TC [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:18 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:21 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:47 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcsmkodtwoxnqfjd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:57 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:00 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@128.250.0.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:25 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:42 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.163.135.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:44 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45 < winsoff> JayDugger, it was just on some online blogposts, and then some reddit thread. I'll have to find it. 20:45 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:46 < winsoff> MORAVEC TRANSFER 20:46 < winsoff> FUCK 20:47 < winsoff> Found that by searching "site:reddit.com theseus upload," then seeing in the results a few transhumanist subreddits, and then going through each subreddit's search-in-sub feature with "theseus upload" and getting a thread with that in it. 21:06 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcsmkodtwoxnqfjd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:11 -!- mrdata_ is now known as mrdata 21:53 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:e892:8354:2841:e0cb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: MAXIMUM SOFTCORE] 23:05 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-102-074-205.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:13 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-188-102-074-205.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13 -!- Joshchamp__ is now known as Joshchamp 23:46 -!- schindler_ [uid149928@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjlegkilpkiusbtw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:57 < archels_> kanzure: what was your take on Traywick prior to his death? 23:59 < archels_> "Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow" --- Log closed Tue May 08 00:00:11 2018