--- Log opened Fri Jun 08 00:00:40 2018 00:20 -!- lewl_ [~lewl@96-88-198-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 00:40 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:00 -!- CandleGlow|2 [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has quit [Quit: ...and all my responses they stay the same.] 01:07 -!- lewl [~lewl@96-88-198-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:09 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:50 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@142-254-106-160.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:50 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@142-254-106-160.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:34 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajmpdcvinghikzjj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:48 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:54 < ebowden> nmz787 electroiq.com/blog/2011/07/extending-optical-lithography-with-complementary-ebeam-lithography/ 04:55 < ebowden> Oops. 04:55 < ebowden> Here we go. https://electroiq.com/2011/07/extending-optical-lithography-with-complementary-ebeam-lithography/ 04:57 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@142-254-106-160.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajmpdcvinghikzjj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:06 -!- lewl [~lewl@96-88-198-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06 -!- lewl [~lewl@96-88-198-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:11 -!- lewl [~lewl@96-88-198-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:28 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:37 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:32 < kanzure> researchgate still pings me every time an author i've cited does anything on their platform... what happens if i upload a paper that cites everything? are they just going to send me all their surveillance data? wtf 07:41 -!- lewl [~lewl@ip-173-153-1-93.ekrgmd.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- lewl [~lewl@ip-173-153-1-93.ekrgmd.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42 -!- lewl [~lewl@ip-173-153-1-93.ekrgmd.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 < kanzure> would robot parents choose to have upgraded robot children 07:49 < kanzure> .title https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt.4170 07:49 < yoleaux> DIYbio gets a poxy rap | Nature Biotechnology 07:52 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/mbeisen/status/1004497298791862272 07:52 < yoleaux> if we printed all 2,000,000 STEM papers published every year, put them on a rocket and launched them to Mars with their spacecraft to take them their, it would cost around $3b a year - we currently spend around $10b a year to put them online (@mbeisen) 07:52 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/TrendsinBiotech/status/1004076156830838785 07:52 < yoleaux> Jacob Beal and colleagues from @iGEM HQ reflect on their recent efforts toward inter-laboratory standardization in synthetic biology: http://bit.ly/2JbbHDz https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De8x8WTVMAAg-vL.jpg (@TrendsinBiotech) 07:52 < kanzure> https://ktn-uk.co.uk/news/a-national-industrial-biotechnology-strategy-to-2030 07:57 < fenn> .wik YInMn_Blue 07:57 < yoleaux> "YInMn Blue (for yttrium, indium, manganese) is an inorganic blue pigment that was accidentally discovered by Professor Mas Subramanian and his then graduate student Andrew E. Smith at Oregon State University in 2009." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YInMn_Blue 07:57 < kanzure> we should offer the deaf community one of those conditional expression techniques. that would be a cool thing. 07:57 < fenn> new IR reflective and UV absorbing inorganic and non-toxic pigment 07:59 < kanzure> how often do we get new interesting pigments? 07:59 < fenn> approximately never 07:59 < kanzure> are we in a pigment desert or a pigment utopia? 08:00 < fenn> this has been in commercial development since 2016 08:05 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:13 -!- lewl [~lewl@ip-173-153-1-93.ekrgmd.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20 < fenn> "NASA’s Curiosity rover has detected background levels of methane in the atmosphere of Mars, and these concentrations seem to go up in the summer and down in the winter, according to new research." http://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6393/1093.full 08:24 < fenn> less technical article https://medium.com/@tanyaofmars/the-curious-case-of-methane-on-mars-a06526b30d87 08:33 < fenn> human vision has a much higher gamut in the blue green than is available on most computer monitors and organic dyes, so seeing a blue pigment like cobalt or prussian blue is sort of shocking 08:34 < fenn> or i should say all computer monitors 08:34 < solene> I think that it's the same for some kind of orange which can't be produced by screens 08:36 < fenn> maybe there's some fluorescence going on, which i think is also impossible with organic dyes 08:37 < fenn> for short wave UV at least 08:39 < fenn> without breaking down 08:43 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@173.195.78.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:45 < fenn> many pigments were discovered accidentally, and you have to wonder what discoveries were missed because scientists haven't enthusiastically adopted wearable sensory enhancement technology 08:46 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:50 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:8cfa:c8a1:2fd2:48a0] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:51 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/redbe4rd/status/1005114848013938689 08:51 < yoleaux> @eric_lombrozo @kanzure @mir_btc Infinite @kanzure theorem? Would put those monkeys to shame. (@redbe4rd, in reply to tw:1005108576908537856) 09:10 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:11 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- ShaKata [~ShaKata@bzq-79-178-21-226.red.bezeqint.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:29 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46 -!- gene_hacker [~tetrapod@129-2-180-85.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 < kanzure> gene_hacker: be greeted. what's up? 09:59 < nmz787> ebowden: cool, thanks. that's pretty much what I've been thinking for my device production ideas... use cheap/large-feature-size optical litho, then add in nano features with SEM litho or maybe FIB 10:00 < ebowden> Keep in mind that these are used for line cutting, not making the lines. 10:00 < ebowden> The lines are done with optical lithography. 10:00 < nmz787> mmm 10:00 < ebowden> Also, keep in mind that it uses big arrays of beams. 10:00 < nmz787> yeah, still helpful potentially 10:00 < gene_hacker> not much 10:00 < nmz787> well beam arrays are more for throughput 10:01 < ebowden> Yes. 10:01 < ebowden> You could do without them... 10:01 < ebowden> Very slowly. 10:01 < ebowden> That said, the beam arrays are actually tiny. 10:02 < ebowden> The advantage of this is that the most difficult masks to make are the ones that do the line interrupts. 10:03 < ebowden> At low process nodes, you need multiple masks for the interrupts, which have to be aligned very, very well. 10:04 < ebowden> Now, this does the line interrupts faster, and with no masks. 10:09 < ebowden> To get the nice small spot size on big boy process nodes you need a very thin resist layer, a beam energy between 10 and 15 KeV, and a current of between 15 and 30 nA. 10:10 < ebowden> This information, however, is old, and subject to change from process improvements. (Such as thinner resist and better thermal management.) 10:12 < ebowden> nmz787 http://www.tela-inc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/7970_36.pdf 10:13 < ebowden> Here is the old white paper. I look forward to improvements. 10:15 < ebowden> That said, it is a truly excellent introduction, I recommend that you read it multiple times. 10:22 < ebowden> nmz787, something really cool you could do would be to make the few chips for the C64 that aren't made any more. 10:25 < gene_hacker> ebeam lithography? 10:26 < nmz787> ebowden: well I know ASML was working on multi-ebeam systems for direct e-beam litho... the hope was to eliminate photons altogether, but the throughput just isn't (or wasn't) there a few years ago. Making multi-beam ebeam systems indeed sounds tough at first thought. 10:26 < ebowden> They aren't meant to replace optical litho. 10:26 < ebowden> They are meant to compliment it. 10:27 < nmz787> ebowden: I've thought about trying to get into the software around litho pattern generation, most jobs want a PhD though 10:27 < nmz787> ebowden: the stuff I've seen says they want to supplant it 10:28 < nmz787> or at least they thought that at one point 10:28 < ebowden> They want to supplant it for line cutting. 10:28 < ebowden> Not making the actual lines. 10:28 < ebowden> Luckily, lines are much easier to do with optical litho, whilst line cuts are much easier to do with e-beams. 10:29 < nmz787> I am talking about different people 10:29 < nmz787> i.e. https://www.rvo.nl/subsidies-regelingen/projecten/massively-parallel-electron-beam-imaging 10:29 < nmz787> though that isn't specifically talking about litho 10:29 < nmz787> and also it's europoean I think 10:29 < nmz787> so decimals are all confusing 10:29 < ebowden> The CEBL beam arrays can do inspection too, I think. 10:30 < nmz787> http://semiengineering.com/multi-beam-market-heats-up/ 10:30 < ebowden> Each one of the CEBL modules had 100 beams. 10:31 < nmz787> "From 2001 to 2005, e-beam write times were 8 hours per mask set. In 2015, the average mask write times were 9.6 hours, according to the eBeam Initiative survey. The write times for more complex masks range from 18 to 72 hours today, according to the survey." 10:31 < ebowden> Oh, no question they're great for mask writing. 10:31 < ebowden> But these are very different applications. 10:31 < nmz787> litho != mask writing ??? 10:33 < ebowden> Ebeam lithography for line interrupts is done directly on the wafer without a mask. 10:33 < ebowden> Did you read the white paper? 10:33 < nmz787> no 10:33 < nmz787> paying car insurance and getting ready to drive 10:33 < ebowden> It's very short. 10:33 < ebowden> And VERY digestible and well-explained. 10:33 < ebowden> Oh, ok. 10:34 < nmz787> but I understand the general idea, I think 10:34 < nmz787> I mean, I understand there are photon/electron/ion resolutions for patterns... but the resist also has it's own resolution-affecting characteristics 10:35 < nmz787> so you can't always boost effective resolution of the pattern by simply having a better imaging source 10:35 < nmz787> (i.e. because the resist flows during cure/bake) 10:38 < ebowden> Yup. 10:39 < nmz787> ebowden: you realize that CEBL whitepaper isn't actually using the beam to ablate? 10:39 < nmz787> it's just doing normal masking/patterning 10:39 < nmz787> simply on the features that are not being built, but rather used to constrain etching 10:39 < ebowden> Yes. 10:39 < nmz787> ok 10:39 < nmz787> it doesn't feel much different to me 10:40 < ebowden> I think an easy entry into the market would be making copies of really old chips that people want, but aren't made anymore. 10:40 < nmz787> it's simply they didn't turn on the implanter or start growing oxide after the patterining step... they turned on the etcher 10:40 < nmz787> mmm 10:40 < ebowden> There's demand. 10:40 < nmz787> I was just reading about some old sound chip yesterday 10:40 < nmz787> that has been fully reverse engineered 10:41 < ebowden> They still make C64s, but the only parts missing are a few old chips that they can no longer get. 10:41 < ebowden> Cool. 10:41 < nmz787> ebowden: if you can send some info... maybe market prospect, or chips of interest... such that I could gauge some numbers for cost/expenditure (including time) versus payoff... that would be interesting to me for sure 10:41 < ebowden> If you made those, the customers would love you forever. 10:41 < nmz787> are there fully reversed/available mask/layers images, etc 10:43 < nmz787> bye! 10:44 < ebowden> https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/c64-reloaded-mk2.html 10:44 < ebowden> Bye. 10:45 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@173.195.78.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:45 -!- rawf [~kodr@unaffiliated/rawf] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 10:59 < ebowden> http://retronn.de/imports/commodore_chips.html 11:32 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@173.195.78.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: gone for now but not for good] 11:39 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@173.195.78.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:51 < kanzure> roswell bio's patent on polymerase tethering as a nanopore sensor https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2016210386A1/en 12:19 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:20 -!- gene_hacker [~tetrapod@129-2-180-85.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50 -!- ShaKata [~ShaKata@bzq-79-178-21-226.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51 -!- ShaKata [~ShaKata@bzq-79-178-21-226.red.bezeqint.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 13:06 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:08 -!- lewl_ [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:08 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09 -!- jqtrde 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[~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:14 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:19 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@173.195.78.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19 -!- lewl [~lewl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:22 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25 -!- caraka [~quassel@118.149.107.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30 -!- ShaKata [~ShaKata@bzq-79-178-21-226.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:35 -!- sachy [~sachy@78.108.102.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:11 -!- caraka [~quassel@118.149.107.171] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 < kanzure> caraka: be greeted 18:12 < caraka> o/ 18:20 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:32 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:55 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01 < kanzure> "A study in the United States and Britain found that 3%-5% of all live births have some sort of genetic disorder" 21:02 < kanzure> what. 21:02 < kanzure> that's enormously high 21:04 < kanzure> from https://www.aac.ac.il/wp-content/uploads/Designing-Babies-Advanced-A-Level.pdf 21:09 < kanzure> "The moral imperative to continue gene editing research on human embryos" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4491050/ 21:17 < kanzure> https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title21-vol8/pdf/CFR-2011-title21-vol8-part1271.pdf 21:29 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:07 -!- rkos [rkos@228.ip-176-31-189.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12 < kanzure> "Most often, they argue that genetic enhancements would harm the children who were engineered, cause societal harms, or that the risks of perfecting the procedures are too high to proceed. However, many of these same people do not have serious objections to what is called ‘genetic planning’ procedures (such as the selection of sperm donors with desirable traits) that essentially have the ... 22:12 < kanzure> ...same ends. The author calls the view that genetic engineering enhancements are impermissible while genetic planning enhancements are permissible the ‘popular view’, and argues that the typical reasons people give for the popular view fail to distinguish the two practices." 22:37 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:39 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: gone for now but not for good] 23:01 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@pool-173-66-205-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:14 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:8cfa:c8a1:2fd2:48a0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Sat Jun 09 00:00:41 2018