--- Log opened Sun Jul 29 00:00:24 2018
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01:47 < nmz787>  "However, unlike, fungi, mammalian cells cannot intracellularly produce NA directly from NAM, and must rely on the activity of specific bacterial nicotinamidases in the gut to produce NA from NAM via the PreissHandler salvage" NA - nicotinic acid, NAM - nicotinamide
01:48 < nmz787> .wik preisshandler salvage
01:48 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed.
01:48 < nmz787> .wik preiss handler salvage
01:48 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed.
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04:38 < kanzure> wikipedia sure does fail us a lot
04:42 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fYGdchv32w
04:42 < yoleaux> The Future of Human Enhancements - Prof. George Church & Experts - YouTube
04:47 < kanzure> ( https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/07/gene-therapy-could-enable-a-world-filled-with-youth-and-genius.html )
04:48 < kanzure> .wik pulse-density modulation
04:48 < yoleaux> "Pulse-density modulation, or PDM, is a form of modulation used to represent an analog signal with a binary signal." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-density_modulation
04:53 < fenn> i found this page complaining about PGP/email and while they make a lot of good points (stupid failures really) i'm not sure if it's actually good advice or just a crank: http://secushare.org/PGP
04:54 < fenn> "you have to switch to new cryptography software twice a year" particularly seems like a bad policy
04:56 < kanzure> i know how to win this game: use secure email but don't send any messages.
04:56 < fenn> preiss and handler elucidated the gritty details of NAD metabolism in 1958, it's hardly surprising there's not an article about them
04:57 < fenn> that's what i do :P
04:57 < fenn> you can't prove otherwise!
04:57 < kanzure> what does joystream actually do (they seem to do bitcoin payments for torrenting or something but i think that would get shutdown at some point)
04:57 < fenn> never heard of htem
04:58 < fenn> sounds pornographic
04:59 < kanzure> i guess the central server doesn't need to negotiate anything bitcoin related, it's purely between clients that find each other through the tracker
04:59 < kanzure> (or rather, it could be; not that i have confirmed they are doing a good thing)
05:00 < kanzure> music! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfkBe7zV7fg&t=15m25s
05:04 < kanzure> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/climate-geoengineering-kim-stanley-robinson_us_5b4e54bde4b0de86f487b0b9
05:08 < fenn> "As a leftist," ... who actually talks like that
05:08 < kanzure> greetings fellow earthlung
05:10 < fenn> oppressors from the third planet: http://www.flagofplanetearth.com/
05:10 < kanzure> i think robinson has a point that, if a government has 100 million deaths or whatever, they might be more likely to pick some sort of geoengineering proposal (if one has been published or studied) and just go fund that
05:11 < fenn> it would take a certain kind of coalition formation to cause any action to happen; the exact stimulus is not that important
05:12 < fenn> it would be difficult to say for certain that any given death was caused by climate change
05:12 < kanzure> individually yes... but if they all die during the same heat wave on the same week then that's helpful.
05:13 < kanzure> population statistics are lagging indicators anyway
05:13 < fenn> more realistically you have: heat wave kills crops, famine results, international aid blah blah blah
05:14 < fenn> one could easily spin it as "evil rich capitalists are hogging all the food"
05:14 < fenn> or whatever your political agenda happens to be
05:15 < kanzure> as a bayesian utilitarialist, my political agenda is the sum of the probability density function of all possible agendas
05:15 < fenn> :(  that is what they actually say
05:15 < kanzure> haha
05:17 < fenn> i liked robinson's mars trilogy but skipped his climate stuff because it's too depressing
05:17 < kanzure> sounds boring
05:17 < fenn> if i wanted to read about people in washington DC i'd go live in DC
05:18 < kanzure> bitcoinops.org asked me what my favorite weather pattern was in an interview the other day and i had to ask back "is a supervolcano a weather pattern?"
05:18 < fenn> coronal mass ejection?
05:18 < fenn> is a gamma ray burst a weather pattern?
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05:18 < kanzure> yes does this include solar weather and can we pick extrasolar weather patterns?
05:21 < fenn> "the growing green-red coalition or united front of environmentalists and leftists" is pretty funny if you've read his mars trilogy
05:22 < fenn> martian terraforming turns the concept of environmentalism on its head
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08:53 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BashCo_/status/1023314605332996097
08:53 < yoleaux> DEFCAD is back online. Downloads will be available on August 1st. https://defcad.com https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjOLAOkX4AEfUBe.jpg (@BashCo_)
09:02 < kanzure> "who gets to decide what is normal" uh...
09:07 < kanzure> peer review https://xkcd.com/2025/
09:07 < kanzure> .wik affront to human dignity
09:07 < yoleaux> "Dignity is the right of a person to be valued and respected for their own sake, and to be treated ethically. It is of significance in morality, ethics, law and politics as an extension of the Enlightenment-era concepts of inherent, inalienable rights. The term may also used to describe personal conduct, as in "behaving with dignity"." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignity
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09:22 < kanzure> "voluntary [genetic changes] run into problems of manipulation by corporate giants [(marketing)]" - george
09:22 < kanzure> weird complaint.
09:24 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=df0f7f30 Bryan Bishop: partial transcript of weird genetic modifications panel >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2018-05-21-enhanced-humans-risks-opportunities/
09:27 < kanzure> .title https://fit.thequint.com/cancer/woman-with-brca1-gene-ends-cancer-cycle
09:27 < yoleaux> Cancer & BRCA1 gene: Genetic Screening Helps Woman Give Birth Without BRCA1 Mutation
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12:11 < nmz787> eleitl: I have an Nvidia 1080 TI
12:11 < nmz787> eleitl: Nvidian GTX 1080 TI
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12:29 < nmz787> hmm
12:29 < nmz787> .g site:github.com "retrosynthesis"
12:29 < yoleaux> https://github.com/MarcStorm/Chemical-retrosynthesis
12:29 < nmz787> well not that, but the list of search results in general
12:29 < nmz787> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jcim.6b00564
12:29 < nmz787> .title
12:29 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
12:30 < nmz787> "Our approach was validated using two different data sets: one hand-curated data set comprising about 680 diverse reactions extracted from patents which span more than 200 different reaction types and include up to 18 different reactants. A second set consists of 50 000 randomly picked reactions from US patents. The results of the second data set were compared to results obtained using two different
12:30 < nmz787> atom-to-atom mapping algorithms. For both data sets our method assigns the reaction roles correctly for the vast majority of the reactions, achieving an accuracy of 88% and 97% respectively. The median time needed, about 8 ms, indicates that the algorithm is fast enough to be applied to large collections."
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14:24 < kanzure> https://imlocation.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/how-fast-do-people-type/
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17:10 < kanzure> ".. working on ways to flash-freeze organs for better transplantation outcomes (Arigos Biomedical)"
17:32 < kanzure> http://discovermagazine.com/1996/jan/headless658
17:32 < kanzure> "With just a bit of hindbrain and a flap of ear where the head should be, the mouse pup is a freak of science--but it is also the first proof that a single gene plays an essential role in creating a head. William Shawlot and Richard Behringer of the University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston created 125 headless mice by knocking out a gene called Lim1 in the developing ...
17:32 < kanzure> ...embryos. The gene, they reported last March, turns out to be an organizer gene: it switches other genes on and off, and in so doing tells cells at the front end of the embryo to become a head."
17:45 < kanzure> lim1 headless mice pups die at embryonic day 10, did people just ignore this small detail..?
17:49 < kanzure> otx2 double knockouts also have some large regions of brain missing
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17:52 < kanzure> huxley and de beer, 1934, lanarian with 10 heads
17:53 < kanzure> *planarian
17:54 < kanzure> "The elements of experimental embryology" 1934 https://archive.org/details/elementsofexperi00huxl
17:59 < kanzure> page 166-167 shows "head grafts in planaria"
18:01 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/planarian-multi-head.png
18:05 < kanzure> page 257 "chain pairs" O_____O
18:11 < yashgaroth> the planarian centipede
18:11 < yoleaux> 12 Jul 2018 07:03Z <nmz787> yashgaroth: do primer microarrays suffer from mispriming mid-fragment? the big-ass molecule simply being a huge plane of glass seems like the best you're gonna do in terms of this idea
18:11 < yoleaux> 12 Jul 2018 07:05Z <nmz787> yashgaroth: my guess is mis-priming mid-fragment would be affected by the length of the affixed primer, and the radius of curvature that the ssDNA could bend
18:11 < yashgaroth> oh jeez
18:14 < yashgaroth> this was for preventing off-target priming I assume, if your linker b/w primer and surface is short enough it should prevent some mispriming, though you can only affix one of the primer pair, and DNA's pretty bendy
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18:16 < yashgaroth> no one really does PCR off immobilized primers though since they can't diffuse onto templates at all, I've run PCR with primer-bead conjugates and it's...slow
18:26 < kanzure> page 295: cosmic horror of five worms combined into one worm
18:26 < kanzure> page 326 figure 151 planarian with 10 heads
18:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/planarian-multi-head-again.png
18:30 < kanzure> "partial twinning of trout brought about by reduced oxygen supply during pre-gastrulation stage"
18:33 < kanzure> their idea of chimeras and hybrids was physically grafting two different embryos together during development
19:01 < maaku> fenn: does it? I thought the reds were pretty clearly the environmentalists
19:03 < maaku> I didn't finish the series though. too much boring author-insert politics
19:11 < fenn> most earth environmentalists are concerned about the effect our activities have on life
19:12 < fenn> the reds were not concerned about life, but rather about a bunch of rocks and "marsness" or something i don't understand
19:13 < fenn> they were pretty confident there was no life
19:13 < superkuh> I love(d) the Mars trilogy. Potentially my favorite scifi books.
19:19 < fenn> on earth, where we have had a biosphere for billions of years, people who care about life are conservationists
19:19 < fenn> but this isn't necessarily true
19:19 < fenn> on other astronomical bodies
20:04 < kanzure> .wik Илья́ Ива́нович Ивано́в
20:04 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed.
20:04 < kanzure> .wik ilya ivanovich ivanov
20:04 < yoleaux> "Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov (Russian: Илья́ Ива́нович Ивано́в, August 1 [O.S. July 20] 1870 – March 20, 1932) was a Russian and Soviet biologist who specialized in the field of artificial insemination and the interspecific hybridization of animals. He may have been involved in controversial attempts to create a human-ape hybrid." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
20:06 < kanzure> "In 1977, researcher J. Michael Bedford discovered that human sperm could penetrate the protective outer membranes of a gibbon egg.[9] Bedford's paper also stated that human spermatozoa would not even attach to the zona surface of non-hominoid primates (baboon, rhesus monkey, and squirrel monkey), concluding that although the specificity of human spermatozoa is not confined to man alone, it ...
20:07 < kanzure> ...is probably restricted to the Hominoidea."
20:07 < kanzure> did they even try intracytoplasmic sperm injection? yeesh.
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20:40 < winsoff> kanzure: are you on qwerty?
21:01 < maaku> fenn: I've thought of environmentalism as preserving that-which-existed-before-humans
21:01 < maaku> lots of environmentalists care about unpoluted natural desert landscapes, for example
21:14 < winsoff> 'natural'
21:14 < winsoff> as if these desert landscapes were not forests before, and deserts before
21:15 < winsoff> all of environmentalism is natalist/fascist resistance against transformation.
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23:44 < nmz787> in my experience with conservationism and environmentalism (spent 9 months camping in Mojave desert with The Student Conservation Association 10+ years ago, plus some inner-city volunteering, and a month of camping deep in the largest Wilderness area of the lower 48 states) most of the sentiment is that the other organisms who are much slower to affect change and to adapt, have the right to continue
23:44 < nmz787> living unimpeded by humans
23:52 < winsoff> nmz787: only to preserve the will of what they deem to be a superior stewardship
23:53 < winsoff> by attempting to hoist themselves to godliness and control their area, considering themselves to be a "contamination" and not a result of said environment
23:53 < winsoff> this is a delusion.
23:54 < nmz787> no more just respecting space and boundaries I think
23:57 < nmz787> if you realize after building a city in the desert, that desert tortoises are simply too stupid to cross roads or even single-track trails from dirt bikes... well, you either say we don't care about the tortoise and the desert biome which it's part of and may affect more (or less) than we can accurately predict (we are pretty sure they are less 'plastic' than say a wet forest ecosystem)... or you do
23:57 < nmz787> care, and you aren't allowed to bring wheeled objects into such areas which can be agreed upon keeping 'natural'
23:59 < nmz787> and then there are folks who simply aren't educated about how stupid the tortoise is, and break the laws and go driving/riding into the protected areas, and it just upsets the taxpaying voters who already passed the resolution to protect that area... and they sue the goverment for wasting their tax dollars, and demand for the issue to be fixed... so the govt goes in and tries to do damage control
--- Log closed Mon Jul 30 00:00:15 2018