--- Log opened Sun Nov 18 00:00:24 2018
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00:32 < fenn> there is a real cost (in lives or QALYs) of the potential new drugs that never made it to market because regulations to prove them safe and effective were too expensive
00:32 < fenn> it's just harder to measure, so society doesn't talk about it
00:33 < fenn> there seems to be no upper limit to how expensive proof of safety and efficacy can be
00:34 < fenn> who would have guessed it would cost a billion dollars per new drug?
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06:38 < fenn> heh heh literally "big brother" in your home http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-citizens-occupy-uighur-homes-xinjiang
06:48 < mrdata__> yeah, thats more of this, in a way, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uyghur-muslims-xinjiang-province-qr-codes-security-crackdown-hrw-a8532156.html
07:01 < kanzure> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/292964046_fig6_Overnight-Construction-Cost-and-Construction-Duration-of-US-Nuclear-Reactors-Color
07:02 < kanzure> https://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/why-are-infrastructure-projects-so-slow.html
07:05 < kanzure> with inflationary currency, shouldn't prices be expected to trend upwards anyway?
07:07 < fenn> the cost is normalized wrt inflation
07:07 < fenn> the y axis is 2010 dollars
07:10 < fenn> the steve seiler blog post doesn't really add anything helpful
07:12 < mrdata__> whats going on here is construction fraud
07:13 < mrdata__> where projects are organized to keep contractors employed
07:13 < fenn> when everyone involved is incentivized to increase the cost of the project, that's what happens
07:14 < mrdata__> by comparison, well managed projects do exist; check out the oroville dam spillway reconstruction
07:15 < kanzure> mrdata__: context is, "why is everything so costly?"
07:16 < mrdata__> because government is paying the bill
07:16 < mrdata__> but also
07:17 < mrdata__> with nuclear reactors, you cant cut corners
07:17 < mrdata__> there is a detailed inspection process
07:17 < mrdata__> to make sure of this
07:18 < mrdata__> and the use of exotic materials
07:18 < fenn> inspection can be done in parallel
07:18 < fenn> it shouldn't take 15 years to build a power plant
07:18 < fenn> or whatever they're up to these days
07:18 < mrdata__> if you go to the job site, you will see not much happening for most of that time
07:19 < kanzure> well i don't mean just reactor sites
07:19 < mrdata__> we are seeing this in toronto with the eglinton crosstown subway route build
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07:19 < mrdata__> the entire road from east to west is totally in gridlock due to construction being in the way
07:20 < mrdata__> but just sitting there doing nothing
07:20 < mrdata__> it's being horribly managed
07:21 < mrdata__> might as well be bandits, blocking the road and demanding payment
07:23 < l_wl> Plus all the loitering they're doing. I feel we should protest to lower their pay
07:23 < mrdata__> nuclear industry is hyper-regulated out of fear
07:24 < mrdata__> coal plants routinely emit many times what a nuclear plant is allowed
07:24 < mrdata__> because of uranium and thorium traces in the coal
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07:38 < l_wl> What's the concentration of uranium and thorium in coal?
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07:52 < kanzure> "Amdahl's law states that in any system, the parts whose efficiency you cannot improve eventually come to dominate the overall performance and cost. He was talking about supercomputers then but it applies to society as a whole. The parts that are not under pressure to get more efficient don’t, and come to dominate costs."
07:53 < kanzure> cost of capital equipment (like machine shop equipment) is also high priced, and i am doubting that regulations have anything to do with that (except perhaps regulations related to the manufacturer's treatment of employees or something?)
07:54 < kanzure> well, i mean, new equipment is high priced. well, i guess there's multiple market segments really.
07:54 < fenn> "fenn> when everyone involved is incentivized to increase the cost of the project, that's what happens"
07:55 < fenn> purchasing managers have a budget and when they don't spend that budget accountably they won't get the same budget next year
07:56 < fenn> so they buy the 30% more expensive machine because it has adaptive buzzwordery and next year all the machines are 30% more expensive because obviously the customer was willing to pay that much
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08:19 < kanzure> "do you know anyone who could help with the sponsorship of jake lifshay, he's doing the 3D GPU engine for the libre riscv soc?"
08:19 < kanzure> "it's a vulkan llvm software-rendered driver (libre licensed). as it's vulkan it can do openmp automatically, as well."
08:21 < kanzure> https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-org-drivers/vulkan/1051860-the-kazan-vulkan-cpu-software-based-implementation-being-rewritten-in-rust
08:25 < kanzure> http://libre-riscv.org/
08:32 < kanzure> various bitcoin lightning network updates/proposals https://github.com/bitcoinops/bitcoinops.github.io/pull/86/files
09:20 < kanzure> "I think one possible explanation is that institutions have a covert incentive to create as many jobs as possible without reduction in profit margins. The mechanism for this incentive to arise stems from the structural incentives of administrators and middle-managers in these institutions. [This increases the required capital investment.]"
09:20 < kanzure> that's pretty close to fenn's use your budget or else
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09:25 < kanzure> and also, nobody buys second best etc.
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09:40 < mrdata__> l_wl, it's in the parts per million
09:41 < mrdata__> but the concentration is greatly increased in fly ash
09:41 < mrdata__> because the bulk of the coal, which was carbon , was burned off
09:42 < mrdata__> so 10 to 30 ppm in fly ash according to this ref, https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs163-97/FS-163-97.html
09:50 < mrdata__> and while these are considered to be below levels for human health concern, my argument was that nuclear industry is hyper-regulated
09:50 < mrdata__> so allowed levels for nuclear are many times below this
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17:13 < heath> rgue that life is inevitable as a result of the second law of thermodynamics (entropy increases over time) https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/
17:13 < heath> 10:57 < kanzure> "su/sudo from root to another user allows TTY hijacking and arbitrary code execution" https://ruderich.org/simon/notes/su-sudo-from-root-tty-hijacking
17:13 < heath> 11:51 < kanzure> oisin senolytics slides (about their liposome method) https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58f6968115d5dbcc64eb277e/t/5b498b981ae6cf6f42e484b6/1531546526008/Oisin+Slide+Deck+2018.07.11c+%28ICSA2018%293.pdf
17:13 < heath> aye. i deserve that
17:13 < heath> s/aye/yikes
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21:33 < mrdata__> hey, do you know how to make a small fortune in bitcoin?
21:33 < mrdata__>  start with a large fortune and wait awhile
21:36 < Urchin[emacs]> ha ha
21:36 < superkuh> s/in bitcoin/in anything/
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 19 00:00:25 2018