--- Log opened Mon Dec 03 00:00:41 2018
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08:17 < kanzure> oh gp-write published my proposal http://engineeringbiologycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Bishop-Pilot-Project.pdf
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08:39 < kanzure> .title https://github.com/Microsoft/SEAL
08:39 < yoleaux> GitHub - Microsoft/SEAL: Simple Encrypted Arithmetic Library (SEAL) is an easy-to-use but powerful homomorphic encryption library written in C++. It supports both the BFV and the CKKS encryption schemes.
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10:00 < kanzure> "Engineering brain parasites for intracellular delivery of therapeutic proteins" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/12/03/481192
10:02 < kanzure> which is a concept i described here, page 15 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2017-02-03-beacon.pdf#page=15
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12:55 < kanzure> https://www.wired.com/story/us-biotech-firms-made-chinese-crispr-babies-possible
12:55 < kanzure> "Synthego acknowledged to WIRED that its synthetic RNAs may have been used in He’s human embryonic engineering experiment. And that any clinical use of its products explicitly violates both the product labeling and the company’s terms of sale, which state in all caps, “FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY, AND NOT FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL THERAPEUTIC OR DIAGNOSTIC USE.” In response to the revelations of ...
12:56 < kanzure> ...the past few days, Synthego says it is now re-evaluating its ordering and customer screening processes."
12:58 < kanzure> "A global consensus wasn’t enough to stop one rogue scientist from bringing Crispr babies into the world. Science, as a self-regulating enterprise, failed. If the goal for the time being is total enforcement of the technology, the burden is going to have to be shared by industry as well."
13:09 < fenn> interesting reinterpretation of history
13:21 < kanzure> i don't think they really know this yet but someone is reporting that jiankui he is "missing" https://thehill.com/policy/technology/419462-chinese-scientist-who-claimed-gene-editing-success-now-missing-report
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13:24 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/1069687857147711488
13:24 < yoleaux> @gwern (Data) They got He’s draft paper/results from him (per them) and distributed it to elect scientists, Eric Topol, george church, etc (per them) under secrecy (to get comment, feedback etc) but don’t make public. (@antonioregalado, in reply to tw:1069674373940940800)
13:28 < fenn> don't worry, investigative reporter Gwern is on the case
13:35 < jrayhawk> thank goodness, we definitely needed proof that jiankui he is craig wright
13:36 < kanzure> i wonder how he decided which scientists to distribute it to
13:37 < fenn> context of that tweet makes it sound like AP distributed it to scientists
13:37 < fenn> probably to make sure it was legit
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16:49 < fenn> https://qz.com/1482839/the-iss-has-a-robot-on-board-and-hes-being-kind-of-a-dick/
16:51 < fenn> poor astronaut
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17:34 < kanzure> .title https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/a2obkm/science_discussion_last_week_a_team_of_scientists/
17:34 < yoleaux> Too Many Requests
17:47 < kanzure> "Supergenius? No problem, but also more prone to mental illness. Want to get rid of the gene that makes you more susceptible to colon cancer? Gotcha, but you will now be lactose intolerant."
17:47 < kanzure> hmm i'm not sure that would be enough to convince people
17:47 < kanzure> "Since you are all based in the Church lab," oh
17:50 < kanzure> "A major criticism of this type of work is that we shouldn't edit genes due to child safety concerns, but if we deem it ethical to outright kill fetuses, how can it be wrong to only modify an embryo?"
17:51 < kanzure> "The 'effect on the gene pool' is a fair point, but no 2 parents know exactly how their child will turn out, what genes he will inherit from whom, or even if any mutations will occur. And also how many of these traits will be passed on down to their children. If a single mutation has the potential to significantly affect us as a species, it would have happened long ago."
17:53 < kanzure> "There's nothing wrong with intending to have a child who is stronger, healthier, or smarter than human baseline. Protectionist arguments that we must cripple the potential of other people's children so that they don't outcompete our own assume a zero sum world and come from a vaguely repulsive and small-minded understanding of meaningful human achievement. Many arguments saying that we ...
17:53 < kanzure> ...should make gene editing for enchancement illegal would also justify sterilizing currently existing outliers. I don't really care if only other people ever benefit from these technologies, it's better for them alone to have it than for none of us to."
17:54 < kanzure> "If they had to act in such a sneaky manner to get faster clinical trials on humans, this may also be a signal to an even bigger issue, the difficult and slow process of translating new genetic treatments and discoveries to humans at this point in time."
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18:38 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Rice_BIOE/status/1069723317916049409
18:38 < yoleaux> The Department of Bioengineering at Rice University is deeply concerned by reports of recent work done to modify the genomes of children born in China. Our department had no prior knowledge of this work, and we do not condone it. Full statement: http://ow.ly/93TF50jQVDj (@Rice_BIOE)
18:38 < kanzure> yadda yadda
18:42 < kanzure> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/12/15-worrying-things-about-crispr-babies-scandal/577234/
18:42 < kanzure> "The United States does not specifically prohibit the gene-editing work that He did, unless it was federally funded."
18:42 < fenn> i have seen a lot of unequivocal "the research He conducted was illegal in the United States" which is just incorrect, and worrying
18:43 < kanzure> "Ryan Ferrell, He’s PR consultant, is one of the co-authors [of the ethics document published in the crispr journal]"
18:43 < fenn> this from professional journalists who ought to know how to check facts
18:49 < fenn> The elder Hurlbut spent time telling He about his conservative Catholic stance on ethics, in which human life begins at conception. “It seems like He came to the conclusion that ethics was synonymous with Christianity,” Hills says. That allowed him to politely disregard Hurlbut’s opinions
18:49 < kanzure> advanced level genius
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19:07 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/sxbegle/status/1069626072139030528
19:07 < yoleaux> You can't #CRISPRbabies without ordering reagents. @JKamens of @Addgene explains how it tries to keep this from happening: https://www.genengnews.com/insights/the-untold-crispr-story/ . . . but ultimately it's about trust (@sxbegle)
19:09 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/sxbegle/status/1069583706871029766
19:09 < yoleaux> 'IVF will undermine the very essence of reproduction.' 'Surrogate motherhood will destroy the meaning of being a mother.' 'Test tube babies will question their own existence.' Heard it all before. Didn't happen. #rememberhistory https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1069575589693140997 (@sxbegle)
19:12 < kanzure> yet another moratorianm ignoramus https://www.statnews.com/2018/12/03/temporary-moratorium-gene-editing-babies
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19:21 < fenn> wow a responsible journalist:
19:21 < fenn> .tw https://mobile.twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1069643299328282626
19:21 < yoleaux> @HankGreelyLSJU @DrMJoyner @NIHDirector @antonioregalado @RogerPielkeJr @matthewherper @sxbegle Hank, can you clarify a legal question I have? In that interview, @NIHDirector said germline editing with embryo implantation is illegal in the United States. What specific US law makes that illegal? (@carlzimmer, in reply to tw:1069642641191526400)
19:23 < fenn> since the fetus is a drug and the woman is the patient to whom the drug is being given, that means you can bring a fetus to term in an artificial womb without any legal troubles
19:25 < fenn> also i have a bridge for sale
19:26 < kanzure> .tw https://mobile.twitter.com/DrMJoyner/status/1069650433763880962
19:26 < yoleaux> @carlzimmer @antonioregalado @HankGreelyLSJU @ZacharyBrennan @NIHDirector @RogerPielkeJr @matthewherper @sxbegle The “enthusiasts” will claim what they are doing is not research..... and thus not covered. (@DrMJoyner, in reply to tw:1069649439055364096)
19:27 < kanzure> those pesky enthusiasts!
19:27 < fenn> as long as you don't make any health claims it's like getting a nose ring or a tattoo
19:27 < kanzure> acting all.. enthused.. and stuff..
19:29 < fenn> we need an officially recognized religion that lets us do all the cool stuff
19:29 < kanzure> officially recognized by.... the people who don't want you doing this?
19:30 < kanzure> that ain't how official recognition works
19:30 < fenn> it's just unfair that you're only allowed to use religion to mutilate the genitals of little girls and boys, and not any useful sort of mutilation
19:31 < kanzure> "yea we're genetically editing out the foreskin, it's the same thing really"
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 04 00:00:42 2018