--- Log opened Wed Oct 02 00:00:27 2019 00:09 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@172.58.84.177] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:33 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@172.58.84.177] has quit [Changing host] 00:33 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:35 -!- TC [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:35 -!- TC is now known as Guest75767 00:38 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:25 -!- faceface [~faceface@unaffiliated/faceface] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:34 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:56 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:07 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07 -!- kun0[m] [kun0matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ujygjhjunuvmycpt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:16 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:23 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181168.unknown.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:45 -!- kun0[m] [kun0matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-slblelruuaosrual] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:43 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:34 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:35 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:38 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:32 -!- BobDanger [~bob_dange@c-5eea2eca-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:32 < BobDanger> Anyone here that is up for a chat about telepathy? I'm currently doing a dive into it. Would be nice to find someone to discuss it with. I'm Bob by the way. 07:36 < docl> what kinds of ideas you got so far? 07:37 < docl> seems like BCIs, implants that let you talk to a computer with your mind, are just a matter of time 07:37 < BobDanger> Indeed. 07:38 < BobDanger> It should be possible today. Implanted cochlear implants that uses RF. Just need to crank that distance way up 07:39 < docl> I'm hesitant to get stuff implanted in my brain with today's tech, but if I could talk to a computer through nerves in my hands with some gloves or something that could be really sweet 07:40 < BobDanger> I saw something on reddit. Some post about a (brain?) implant in a person where the scientist had decoded his brainwaves to speech 07:41 < BobDanger> Heard about silent speech/talk/communication?' 07:47 < BobDanger> "a program called Silent Talk. The goal was to "allow user-to-user communication on the battlefield without the use of vocalized speech through analysis of neural signals"." 07:47 < BobDanger> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Silent_Talk 07:50 < docl> new to me (haven't done a deep dive on this) 07:52 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181168.unknown.vectranet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55 < BobDanger> Can probably dig up something worth readable if you're interested? 07:56 < BobDanger> Anyways. It's going to be an interesting future 08:01 -!- BobDanger [~bob_dange@c-5eea2eca-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 08:02 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:06 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2606:6000:ca84:b300:b187:7019:a25d:3847] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:07 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18 -!- bob_danger [bob_danger@gateway/vpn/mullvad/bobdanger/x-40535088] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 < bob_danger> Well I'm back people. No need to worry. 08:18 * bob_danger slaps docl around a bit with a large trout 08:19 < bob_danger> Have you found anything interesting? 08:37 < docl> lol nah I got distracted 08:38 < docl> I'm mainly interested in it from the angle of how it would sure be nice to be able to code without a keyboard 08:39 < docl> carpal tunnel isn't fun 08:42 < docl> Lately I'm looking at tools for FEM, because I want to do simulations of a space runway concept 08:43 < docl> Finite Element Modeling, aka FEA (Finite Element Analysis) 08:45 < docl> One of the tools that has been recommended is Elmer. It was a pain in the neck to install and keeps crashing on me :/ 08:46 < bob_danger> https://alternativeto.net/software/elmer/ 08:49 < docl> hmm. I wonder if something like openfoam would work for the multiphysics sims 08:50 < docl> there's a few different effects we need to model in an integrated way: thermal, mechanical, electro-magnetic 08:52 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:53 -!- bob_danger [bob_danger@gateway/vpn/mullvad/bobdanger/x-40535088] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54 -!- bob_danger [bob_danger@gateway/vpn/mullvad/bobdanger/x-40535088] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:56 -!- jtimon [~quassel@22.133.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 < maaku> docl: space runway meaning what, a launch loop? 08:59 < docl> no, it's a lot smaller than a launch loop, but it's an orbiting structure 08:59 < docl> http://replicator.space/Space_Runway_NIAC.pdf here's a copy of what we submitted to NIAC 09:01 < docl> basically the main cost of space travel is getting stuff to orbital velocity, which is pretty high for earth. so we're thinking eddy current braking from a massive structure in orbit may be a good approach to doing this. there would need to be reboosting to replace the lost momentum, but this would be handled with a high-isp method like ion rockets 09:02 < maaku> docl: interesting, this is a new idea to me. simple and workable, which I like. 09:03 < maaku> unfortunately it's a small target to hit for return trajectories vs aerobraking 09:03 < maaku> but for launch I can definately see the potential 09:04 < maaku> I would also like to hear more sometime about "the world's first self replicating space station" 09:04 < docl> still working on that concept :) 09:04 < lsneff> Yes, the title page of that site also caught my eye 09:05 < docl> my basic thought was to work out all the mechanical processes needed to recycle dead satellites, and set it up to be teleoperated from earth. people would have jobs in space without leaving earth. 09:17 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:25 < docl> self growing near earth industry is possible in principle without even using sending out ion tugs to grab asteroid chunks... there's 1900 tons of dead satellites waiting to be recycled, and something like 300 tons/day of incoming space debris, mostly small particles that could be intercepted mechanically (which provide free thrust if you catch them at the correct angle) 09:28 < lsneff> Are you sure that capturing dead satellite debris would be cheaper than just shipping to leo with starship? 09:31 < docl> not totally sure. the dead satellite materials could be converted to propellant, but we're talking about employing people to man the robots which is going to cost something. 09:31 -!- justanotheruser [justanothe@gateway/vpn/nordvpn/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:35 < lsneff> Speaking of, I've seen a lot of different numbers for the cost per kg to leo with starship. Anywhere between 200 and 50 $/kg 09:35 < docl> in principle if the mass gets to orbit from earth cheap enough you can beat the cost of going to the trouble of collecting dead satellites (unless someone is paying you to do it to prevent kessler syndrome) 09:35 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:36 < lsneff> Yeah, I'd be surprised if we don't eventually see autonomous debris collectors in orbit 09:37 < docl> but the space runway idea lets you get 10x as much to orbit per rocket, so it should be robust/profitable no matter how cheaply we can get with reusable rockets 09:39 < lsneff> How would you build the space runway? 09:39 < lsneff> Seems to me like it'd need to be on the order of megatons 09:40 < docl> a megaton would be enough for 3000 ton payloads, so that's a bit overkill 09:40 < docl> It's intended to be bootstrapped 09:41 < docl> realistic mass ratio seems to be in the 300:1 range 09:41 < lsneff> Ah okay 09:41 < docl> so a 300 ton runway : 1 ton payload is thinkable. however, small rockets don't do well against the earth's atmosphere, so that may not be a realistic scale 09:42 < lsneff> What's the rate at which the re-acceleration of the runway would be too slow to counter the loss of velocity from payload acceleration? 09:44 < docl> we're operating from the assumption of 1 delivery per 90 minute orbital period, as that lets you use the same launch site 09:44 < lsneff> Ah, you answered that in the pdf 09:44 < lsneff> Yeah, sorry 09:57 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.84.109] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.84.109] has quit [Changing host] 09:57 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:00 < lsneff> Would the runway be able to pull energy from the decceleration? 10:00 -!- bob_danger [bob_danger@gateway/vpn/mullvad/bobdanger/x-40535088] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.84.229] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:04 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.84.229] has quit [Changing host] 10:04 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:04 < docl> possible in principle, but our current position is that it's better (less complexity) to let it turn into waste heat 10:05 < lsneff> right right, makes sense 10:05 < lsneff> Fascinating idea, would love to see it put into practice someday 10:05 < docl> the Spaceport concept by Arnold & Kingsbury involves claiming the energy and using it to spit the magship backwards 10:06 < lsneff> As in, taking the cargo out and then deorbiting the magship? 10:06 < docl> we're hoping to get some feedback from NIAC around Nov 1 10:06 < docl> Yes 10:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:08 < lsneff> Whenever someone proposes a really cool idea for space industrialization and exploration, I always get really worried that I won't be around to see it in real life 10:09 < docl> same 10:09 < lsneff> Back in the mid 2010's, I really felt like space exploration had taken a backseat 10:10 < lsneff> but recently, I feel more optimistic because of spacex 10:11 < lsneff> and the lunar stuff that nasa is doing and whatnot 10:11 < lsneff> but I fear it's still going to take many decades for industry to get bootstrapped 10:13 < docl> Yeah, the recent starship update was pretty encouraging for me. Space is getting a lot less expensive. 10:13 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43 < lsneff> I don't know if going to mars is the right thing to do over the moon, but I'm glad at least *something* is happening. 10:45 -!- LeoTal1 [~Adium@168.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:45 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@168.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.87.101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.87.101] has quit [Changing host] 11:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:05 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:09 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:14 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:14 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-176-139-157.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:18 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:28 -!- LeoTal1 [~Adium@168.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40 -!- sachy [~sachy@91.146.121.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:14 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:24 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:26 -!- justanotheruser [justanothe@gateway/vpn/nordvpn/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-176-139-157.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181168.unknown.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:48 < kanzure> https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/x5ASTMPKPowLKpLpZ/moloch-s-toolbox-1-2#iii__Academic_incentives_and_beneficiaries 14:56 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181168.unknown.vectranet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14 -!- priontology [~scionce@66.205.193.158] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 16:17 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2606:6000:ca84:b300:b187:7019:a25d:3847] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@cpe-76-176-31-235.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:45 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52 -!- testxxx [813b7a12@129.59.122.18] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- testxxx [813b7a12@129.59.122.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:36 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:41 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:06 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:13 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:19 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:32 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:21 -!- luwl [~luwl@cpe-2606-A000-4806-E500-355D-9546-5FDA-8A3D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:29 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.139.6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:30 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@172.58.139.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:30 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:35 < fenn> docl: does once per orbit from the launch site actually make sense according to orbital mechanics? you can only get so much plane change per orbit from precession 20:35 < fenn> if this were possible, there'd be much less reason to go to GEO 20:36 < fenn> a sun synchronous orbit only rotates around the earth once per year 20:55 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@46.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:10 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24 < maaku> lsneff: $50/kg is close to the cost of fuel per flight. $200/kg adds in reasonable margins for amortized capital costs and maintenance comparable to commercial airliners, and a healthy profit margin 21:35 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:39 -!- Guest75767 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@cpe-76-176-31-235.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07 -!- jtimon [~quassel@22.133.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:55 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:55 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Oct 03 00:00:28 2019