--- Log opened Thu Oct 10 00:00:36 2019
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05:03 < kanzure> 19:43 < kanzure> .title https://youtube.com/watch?v=BErsLhDlvfQ
05:03 < kanzure> 19:43 < kanzure> .title https://youtube.com/watch?v=BErsLhDlvfQ
05:03 < kanzure> 19:43 < kanzure> .title https://youtube.com/watch?v=BErsLhDlvfQ
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05:07 < kanzure> uh.. keyboard error.
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06:49 < fenn> .title
06:49 < EmmyNoether> Knowledge Aggregation & Propagation - Bryan Bishop - CES Summit '19 - YouTube
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07:38 < kanzure> https://guide.fatcat.wiki/
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08:10 < andytoshi> had an interesting conversation with ethan heilman regarding your comments in that talk about librarian failing in their duty
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08:10 < andytoshi> ethan more-or-less argued that libraries have been continually squeezed out by govts, schools, industry, etc., and the number of libraries has continually gone down (i.e. they keep getting fired)
08:10 < andytoshi> so basically everyone left is selected for not rocking the boat .. and they are powerless to effect their goals even to the extent that they have them
08:13 < andytoshi> and so basically there is nothing at all that is filling the role in society that libraries should
08:13 < andytoshi> which is why it's left to random individuals like scihub
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08:22 < andytoshi> this also led to a conversation about there being no visible/named political movement about access to information
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08:39 < kanzure> yeah it's not exactly the fault of the librarians but they had a moral responsibility to warn society that copyright law was stupid etc
08:52 < kanzure> .wik dna digital data storage
08:52 < EmmyNoether> "DNA digital data storage is the process of encoding and decoding binary data to and from synthesized strands of DNA. /  While DNA as a storage medium has enormous potential because of its high storage density, its practical use is currently severely limited because of its [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_digital_data_storage
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09:13 < kanzure> andytoshi: why were libraries allowed in the first place?
09:14 < kanzure> i guess there was the one where it was mandated that every book from every ship passing through port get copied and stored at the central library, which was by mandate
09:14 < kanzure> before the printing press it must have been more of an issue of scarcity and resource sharing i suppose
09:14 < andytoshi> i believe that was alexandria, yeah
09:15 < andytoshi> alexandria would also do shit like "borrow" books, with some bond attached, then copy them
09:15 < andytoshi> ..or sometimes just keep the original and forfeit the bond
09:15 < andytoshi> but the point was to pull information from other societies into your own
09:22 < andytoshi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_libraries
09:23 < andytoshi> this suggests that the british museum was the first thing like what we'd call a library
09:23 < andytoshi> it doesn't say what its goals were. "aiming to collect everything"
09:24 < andytoshi> kinda sounds like it was a way to brag about how many books your country could afford
09:24 < kanzure> i wonder if virtual reality would get around the digital copyright library issues
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09:27 < andytoshi> i think it would worsen the issues in https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/the-danger-of-ebooks.html
09:28 < andytoshi> not mentioned there are that publishers charge libraries ridiculous prices for ebooks and put conditions on them that no library should ever accept (but they do)
09:28 < andytoshi> e.g. giving the publisher the ability to yank it, restricting how many people can access it, etc
09:29 < andytoshi> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20982315
09:29 < EmmyNoether> E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians | Hacker News
09:29 < kanzure> and they limit the number of ebooks that can be "checked out" at a time, it's absurd
09:30 < petercommand> "checked out"?
09:30 < kanzure> yeah.... it's stupid but that's what they are doing.
09:30 < petercommand> what does that even mean with ebooks?
09:31 < kanzure> it means DRM
09:31 < petercommand> Ah
09:31 < kanzure> have you ever checked out an ebook at your local library? go try it.
09:31 < andytoshi> i think i have. it was really shitty. had to use this gimped up pseudo-pdf-reader in my browser with defective navigation and no search
09:31 < petercommand> I have downloaded ebooks from my university library
09:32 < petercommand> I just get ordinary pdf files
09:32 < andytoshi> yeah, with my university library, for textbooks (but only very few of them), i think that's how it worked
09:33 < petercommand> um, I don't think the files are provided by my library, but rather the library probably paid the publisher and I get access to the pdf at the publisher's website or something
09:36 < kanzure> andytoshi: what about this, a library where you can only gain access by committing all of your written works to the library. so it becomes a self-reinforcing entity.
09:37 < petercommand> I tried "Types and Programming Language", and I am able to download pdf files, albeit section by section
09:37 < petercommand> which is very annoying
09:38 < andytoshi> kanzure: oo very interesting idea
09:38 < petercommand> kanzure: all sounds a bit extreme perhaps?
09:38 < kanzure> okay here's an idea-- in virtual reality you could argue there's only one ebook, it's just that everyone is crowded around it and looking at the ebook just like a crowd looking at a physical book in a library.
09:39 < petercommand> kanzure: yeah?
09:40 < andytoshi> trying to understan dthe end of https://www.publishersweekly.com/binary-data/ARTICLE_ATTACHMENT/file/000/004/4222-1.pdf ... they say "library's need for perpetual access" but in the same breath as "you have to renew every 2 years"
09:40 < andytoshi> this is an internal doc from macmillan about library ebooks
09:41 < kanzure> back to the virtual reality multi-viewer idea: it's similar to an auditorium in a library with a book placed under a projector, with a thousand people reading it at the same time.
09:42 < kanzure> (these workarounds are so fecking stupid)
09:42 < andytoshi> i suspect that projecting a physical book is illegal
09:42 < kanzure> oh come on
09:42 < andytoshi> similarly there are rules about playing movies in public spaces
09:44 < kanzure> yeah i'm aware of that one... but in a library, they don't regulate the number of people looking at a single book at a time.
09:45 < andytoshi> right but i think the act of projecting it would be distribution in a manner that violates copyright. (IANAL ofc, and i'm just extrapolating from similar laws about movies that i'm aware of)
09:45 < andytoshi> but if like, you gave everyone a telescope so they could read a book across the room, would that still be projection?
09:45 < petercommand> it's legal to read a book with glasses
09:46 < petercommand> even if projecting the book is legal, I wouldn't want to read a book like that
09:46 < petercommand> *a
09:47 < petercommand> people read books at different paces
09:47 < kanzure> in virtual reality you can have a page that is long enough to contain the whole book
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09:47 < kanzure> so the pace thing doesn't matter
09:47 < petercommand> yeah
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09:51 < petercommand> kanzure: btw, is there any off-the-shelf vr headset that you think is good enough to the point where it would be pleasant to read a virtual book in it?
09:52 < petercommand> with enough resolution etc
09:53 < kanzure> i know nothing about this and i'm talking out of my ass
09:53 < kanzure> i'd just use a computer instead of a vr headset
09:54 < petercommand> well, the way I think about it is that if there is a good enough vr headset, it would be like having an infinitely large computer screen
09:55 < petercommand> which, is contingent on there being a good enogh vr headset on the market
09:55 < maaku> petercommand: ipad pro. no vr headset is going to offer better or more ergonomic reading than that
09:55 < kanzure> according to https://www.slj.com/?detailStory=tackling-copyright-concerns-when-taking-storytime-online  physical storytime at a library is not explicitly lawful and yet librarians are doing it anyway-- so why aren't they pushing boundaries in other ways?
09:57 < kanzure> (because the copyright owner holds the exclusive right of public performance)
09:57 < kanzure> viewing a book is not explicitly performance, though
10:01 < petercommand> a performance should be an active act
10:03 < petercommand> and viewing a book is not
10:03 < petercommand> (intuitively)
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10:42 < andytoshi> that storytime article is super weirdly written
10:42 < andytoshi> it seems to imply that fair use includes "for the social good"
10:43 < andytoshi> it reads like childish propaganda for the IP industry, "these laws are your friend, they are there to make the world safe for you"
10:44 < andytoshi> lots of stuff liek "who would sue a library or teacher for digital storytime? The case would be thrown out of court" with no justification given
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10:51 < petercommand> I also don't see why cases like that would be thrown out of court
10:51 < kanzure> well a jury would probably find storytime to be okay
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12:07 < superkuh> Woo! After months of bugging ADS gave in. "We have a "light" version which does not require JavaScript to be enabled. It does not have full functionality with settings and libraries, but will work will for basic searching.  We expect to enable this next week, at which time, it will automatically detect if you do not have JavaScript enabled and behave accordingly."
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16:56 < kanzure> an interesting argument that it's extremely difficult to get access to modern-equivalent competence in healthcare and therefore we shouldn't be so picky about unlicensed unregulated things https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217206
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17:13 < kanzure> .title https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-10/mali-man100919.php
17:13 < EmmyNoether> URLError: <urlopen error [SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed (_ssl.c:600)> (title:74)
17:13 < kanzure> https://home.liebertpub.com/publications/the-crispr-journal/642
17:14 < kanzure> "In this Perspective, Kerry Macintosh, author of Enhanced Beings, offers three reasons she opposes the imposition of a moratorium: the danger of a temporary ban becoming permanent; a disincentive to support appropriate research to make the technology safer and more effective; and the potential stigmatization of children born with edited genomes. Nations should regulate germline editing for ...
17:14 < kanzure> ...safety and efficacy only, Macintosh says, without distinguishing between therapeutic applications and enhancement."
17:14 < kanzure> Contact: Kerry Lynn Macintosh (kmacintosh@scu.edu) (Santa Clara University School of Law, CA)
17:15 < kanzure> https://www.amazon.com/Enhanced-Beings-Human-Germline-Modification/dp/1108457290
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17:41 < kanzure> an interesting argument that regulating away IVF because of the increased risk of birth defects is actually eugenics (denying disabled people from reproduction technologies) https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1043&context=facpubs
17:45 < kanzure> https://www.liebertpub.com/toc/crispr/2/5
17:47 < kanzure> .title https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/crispr.2019.0016
17:51 < kanzure> .title https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/crispr.2019.0019
17:51 < kanzure> "Future children would be the beneficiaries. It could be argued that an arbitrary moratorium does not further or foster their best interests or health, or respect their right to benefit from the advancements of science."
17:53 < kanzure> why are they asking me to sell them insulin https://twitter.com/MichaelHawaii/status/1182452543365890048
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23:08 < nmz787> superkuh: what is ADS?
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 11 00:00:37 2019