--- Log opened Wed Dec 18 00:00:40 2019 00:13 -!- meese [uid127561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihrgxsgyshonizlh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:36 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@31.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@31.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:21 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:22 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:24 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181182.unknown.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:36 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:36 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:41 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:50 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:55 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:04 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:07 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:11 < nmz787> phase: EmmyNoether is a bot 02:11 < nmz787> EmmyNoether: who are you? 02:11 < nmz787> .wik Emmy Noether 02:11 < EmmyNoether> "Amalie Emmy Noether[a]| (German: ['no:t?]; 23 March 1882 - 14 April 1935) was a German mathematician who made important contributions to abstract algebra and theoretical physics." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether 02:11 < phase> thanks, nmz787 02:12 < nmz787> .wik you're welcome 02:12 < EmmyNoether> "Gratitude, thankfulness, or gratefulness, from the Latin word gratus 'pleasing, thankful', is a feeling of appreciation felt by and/or similar positive response shown by the recipient of kindness, gifts, help, favors, or other types of generosity, towards the giver of [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_welcome 02:13 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:17 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 < phase> i'll share this for entertainment and consideration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBs0AHgps7E 02:22 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:31 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:36 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:50 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:58 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:03 < phase> not trying to scare users of this chan off... at all 03:04 < phase> best thing i should do is zip my lip and stay and observe - which i will do unless i get nick pings 03:05 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:10 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:22 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:27 -!- aeiousomething 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[mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04 < docl> kanzure: yes, I've seen eric hunting around. he's big on telerobotics, as I recall 08:05 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12 -!- jenelizabeth [~JenElizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:18 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181182.unknown.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:18 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:20 < kanzure> docl: also the living universe foundation stuff 08:20 < kanzure> or tmp2 08:23 < docl> haven't seen that 08:24 < kanzure> https://tmp2.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page 08:24 < docl> the millennial project rings a bell 08:30 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:52 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:56 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:05 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:15 < fenn> thanks for getting luf-team kanzure 09:15 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:15 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:21 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:21 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181182.unknown.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:26 < fenn> is there a .zip of luf-team as well? 09:39 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:39 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 09:39 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 < adlai> thank you for the pointer towards kanji, fenn 09:41 < adlai> symmetries of a single glyph are less concerning than distinct glyphs converging due to application of a symmetry operation 09:42 < fenn> well that also never happens 09:42 < fenn> the stroke appearance is based on how a brush behaves when held in the right hand 09:43 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:43 < adlai> one of the purposes of this line of thought is that recognition of a glyph should be independent of the relative angle between the reader's line-of-sight and the writer's implement 09:44 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:45 < adlai> e.g., a lecturer could be writing on a transparent surface, using an opaque marker, and audience members would follow the lecture from both sides of the writing surface 09:45 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:53 < fenn> unfortunately that's not how the human visual system works 09:55 < adlai> recognizing glyphs that have been reflected or rotated is an entirely learnable skill 09:55 < adlai> you are correct that humans do not usually acquire this 09:55 < adlai> at least, not in the modern era 09:55 < adlai> .wik boustrophedon 09:56 < EmmyNoether> "Boustrophedon /?bu:str?'fi:d?n/ (Ancient Greek: ????????????, boustrophedon 'ox-turning' from ????, bous, 'ox', ??????, strophe, 'turn' and the adverbial suffix -???, 'like, in the manner of'; that is, turning like oxen in ploughing) is a [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon 09:57 < adlai> relevant part of tl;dr, missing from EmmyNoether's summary: ancient greeks used to write lines of text in alternating LTR-RTL directions, to shorten the total path length of both the stylus and the reader's eye 09:57 < adlai> they'd write the actual letters backwards, too 10:04 < kanzure> fenn: here you go https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/luf-team-archive.zip 10:07 < fenn> thx 10:28 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:13 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 11:28 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:32 -!- Guest5005 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:01 -!- sektor [~sektor@95.87.234.241] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:07 -!- sachy [~sachy@91.146.121.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16 -!- meese [uid127561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjsqbzhnnfptrzgs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:22 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nginjwabdubdklpt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:35 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nsh 13:37 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:43 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 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bsm117532 [~mcelrath@104.129.205.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:51 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@31.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:52 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:52 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: unplugging] 14:52 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 < nsh> .t https://7news.com.au/technology/science/stone-age-chewing-gum-reveals-microbiome-of-girl-who-lived-5700-years-ago-c-611322 14:58 < EmmyNoether> Stone Age 'chewing gum' reveals microbiome of girl who lived 5,700 years ago | 7NEWS.com.au 15:25 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill/status/1207403939911622656 15:26 < EmmyNoether> @lsparrish @MarkFriedenbach @Daniel_Plante @dude313123123 @wingod @Hermetec @EvanWard97 @robinhanson @kanzure @robert_zubrin @RokoMijicUK @ZachWeiner OTOH, there's the economic problem of finding business cases that provide near-term revenue, before a fully-established, scaled-up, off-earth supply chain exists. I think that's the only real problem, but from what I see it is being solved fairly quickly. (@DrPhiltill, in reply to tw:12074027605 15:26 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:31 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nginjwabdubdklpt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:41 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:02 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:02 < kanzure> fenn: was it eric hunting or was it paul fernhout that was talking about hobbyist robotics as a way to bootstrap space industrialization? 16:02 < fenn> hunting 16:03 < kanzure> where could i find this email? 16:03 < fenn> it's on the tmp2 wiki probably 16:04 < kanzure> i think the email had the phrase "space advocacy" and "hobbyist" 16:04 < kanzure> oh found it 16:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:06 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/luf-team-what-can-we-do.pdf 16:08 < fenn> his space pessimism no longer seems accurate 16:10 < kanzure> er, part 2 is more interesting: https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/luf-team-what-can-we-do-part-2.pdf 16:15 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16 < fenn> yes this is why i spent several months studying blender 16:22 < fenn> luf gradually went downhill and was basically just eric hunting at that point 16:23 < fenn> apparently they actually accomplished stuff in the late 90s and had a research facility in bastrop county texas 16:24 < fenn> the cornerstone of marshall's vision was "seacrete" architecture based on carbonate minerals extracted from seawater, but it turns out it didn't actually work, and then everyone slowly lost interest 16:29 < superkuh> So sad. I was super hyped about mineral accretion in high school. 16:37 <@jrayhawk> just channel all your hype into https://mods.factorio.com/mod/SeaBlock 16:38 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o jrayhawk] by ChanServ 16:39 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gocohlisbiltfbhl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:13 -!- meese [uid127561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kxvpahiwqcaupnqa] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 < docl> robotics may be a good idea, but honestly I think open source physics modeling tools has more of a shot at bootstrapping it. if the higher end multiphysics stuff like elmer had as good of a front end as say blender, that could make a huge difference. 17:21 < superkuh> jrayhawk, heh. That's mostly what I do in my friend's factorio servers. landfill and making patterns. 17:23 < docl> maybe the first srs will evolve through ever more sophisticated factorio mods 17:24 < fenn> seablock enables a complete production chain from seawater by growing algae and refining the crud left over from electrolyzing seawater 17:25 < fenn> and you can make landfill from mud 17:25 < docl> downloading it as we speak :) 17:25 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:26 < fenn> hunting's point with robotics is that there's a lot of space colonization work to be done on the ground ahead of time, and it also happens to be useful here on earth 17:27 < fenn> and so it's a potential revenue stream 17:28 < fenn> open source software is a hard sell 17:28 < fenn> house 3d printers would be easier to sell 17:29 < fenn> then there's a ginormous ecosystem of manufacturing parts and equipment that needs to be manufacturable in space 17:29 -!- StanleyY [~DerfChigl@71.215.111.47] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:30 < fenn> need reusable supercritical CO2 filters? Asgardian CIC has got you covered 17:32 < docl> thing about software is it is cheap to run, cheap to do iterative testing, and cheap to back up/share. so if you want to design a robot, having a physics engine is kind of like having infinite metals, energy, prefab parts, and so on. 17:33 < fenn> sometimes it takes ten hours to describe a test in a computer that would take ten minutes to do in the lab 17:33 < fenn> and in the end you still don't know whether it will actually work 17:34 < docl> in *principle* at least, you can do all the inventing in code, tweak until it functions, then fab it once in realspace, and it works. 17:35 < docl> the fact that you can't tells you something about the crummy interface. and maybe limited algorithms, although I think that is a secondary issue at this point. 17:38 < docl> I mean, yes *some* things should be near impossible in code. perhaps some fluid modeling (although that's getting better now I hear). but that 10 hours setting up a code based test is probably mostly struggling with an inintuitive interface. 17:39 < kanzure> fenn where is your physics simulator writeup 17:39 < kanzure> or was that maaku's? 17:39 < fenn> since i don't know what you're talking about i'll assume it was maaku 17:42 < kanzure> your cad game thing 17:42 < fenn> since i don't want anyone nagging me about it, there's no writeup 17:43 < fenn> also compiling on windows is pissing me off 17:46 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 < fenn> stupid joe's o's have wheat starch in them now 17:46 < fenn> what's even the point 17:54 -!- StanleyY [~DerfChigl@71.215.111.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:10 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:34 < lsneff> .title https://scitechdaily.com/beyond-moores-law-3d-silicon-circuits-take-transistor-arrays-into-the-third-dimension/ 18:34 < EmmyNoether> Beyond Moore's Law: 3D Silicon Circuits Take Transistor Arrays Into the Third Dimension 18:34 < lsneff> cool stuff huh? 18:53 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:09 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30 -!- soju [uid403160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcrquuktobvkxqmf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 -!- undead [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:16 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:40 -!- soju [uid403160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcrquuktobvkxqmf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:44 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57 -!- meese [uid127561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kxvpahiwqcaupnqa] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 22:01 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:03 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:37 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@249.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:39 -!- LeoTal1 [~Adium@18.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:42 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@249.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gocohlisbiltfbhl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:01 -!- LeoTal1 [~Adium@18.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@18.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Dec 19 00:00:41 2019