--- Log opened Mon Dec 23 00:00:46 2019 00:29 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:31 < TMA> sometimes, the only political "advancement" since middle ages seems to be the for-profit corporation replacing the landed gentry as the puppetmaster behind the throne 00:35 < TMA> nsh: there is a tv station here running russian 00:37 < nsh> as in russian-speaking programming? 00:38 < TMA> nsh: there is a tv station here running russian "documentaries"; while the overt message was changed from the times of the USSR, the general propaganda tone is exactly the same 00:38 < TMA> nsh: nay, they've got dubbing 00:39 < nsh> media-based public relations is pretty innocuous on the continuum of statecraft tbh 00:39 < nsh> the USA runs "liberty"-themed radio and television/satellite stations in most of the world 00:40 < nsh> through various levels of indirection 00:40 < nsh> the BBC world service is not a million miles removed either 00:41 < TMA> nsh: I remember that 'Molotov-Ribentrop pact was a desperate measure by Stalin to avoid Hitler and Churchill team up against the Soviets. They managed like one or two days before the talks in London were finalized.' 00:43 < nsh> TIL :) 00:44 < TMA> nsh: what I am arguing is that the alternatives to the current orange-head dumbfuck run clusterfuck (aka USA) are possibly several orders of magnitude worse, based on my assessment of the selfsame _innocuous_ public relations 00:44 < TMA> *orange-head-dumbfuck 00:44 < nsh> yes, i would really aim for an optimal of zero global hegemons rather than trying to pick the least awful one :) 00:45 < nsh> *optimum 00:45 < nsh> people seem to forget that the former is a perfectly aspirable option 00:45 < nsh> as with governments and bosses 00:45 < TMA> that would be optimal. but it is one of those instable equilibrium 00:46 < nsh> nah, you just change the rules of the game 00:46 < TMA> *equilibria [sorry, not awake enough] 00:46 < nsh> how many players on a soccer or baseball pitch get to boss everyone else around 00:46 < nsh> well that's not a great example because you have captains 00:46 < nsh> but in terms of the rules of the game they don't have any special powers of privileges 00:46 < nsh> the rules are just set sensible and enforced 00:46 < nsh> it's eminently possible 00:46 < nsh> people are just shit at (a) imagination; (b) trying hard at anything 00:47 < nsh> *sensibly 00:47 < nsh> *or 00:47 < nsh> we're just used to the idea that the rules of global civilisation do not prevent abuses of power 00:47 < nsh> because nobody's really tried very hard or applied much intelligence to trying 00:48 < nsh> the calculus of possibility in that regard changed significantly thanks to satoshi 00:48 < nsh> all that remains is the thinking and the trying 00:48 < nsh> which i'm hoping eventually someone will get around to 00:50 < nsh> .wik Borsuk-Ulam theorem 00:50 < EmmyNoether> "In mathematics, the Borsuk-Ulam theorem states that every continuous function from an n-sphere into Euclidean n-space maps some pair of antipodal points to the same point." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk%E2%80%93Ulam_theorem 00:52 < TMA> nsh: I think that Sallust (Gaius Sallustius Crispus) wrote some 2000 years ago that 'most men do not want freedom, they want a sensible master' 00:53 < nsh> or a not-especially-cryptically racist one, as we just found out in the UK 00:54 < nsh> designing things around what people want over what's good for them isn't really a good idea until they learn to want what's good for them 00:54 < nsh> which often takes more one human lifetime 00:54 < TMA> nsh: the 'de duobus malis minum eligendum est' is at work again :) 00:55 < TMA> nsh: exactly. therefore it is a futile endeavour 00:56 < nsh> .wik Thomas a Kempis 00:56 < EmmyNoether> "Thomas a Kempis (c. 1380 - 25 July 1471), was a German-Dutch canon regular of the late medieval period and the author of The Imitation of Christ, one of the most popular and best known Christian devotional books." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_a_Kempis 00:57 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57 < nsh> he also said 'In omnibus requiem quaesivi, sed non inveni, nisi in hoexkens ende boexkens", "I have sought everywhere for peace, but I have found it not, save in nooks and in books."' 00:57 < nsh> which is relatable :) 00:58 < nsh> choosing the lesser of two evils is not especially a terrible thing to do, but first one should discharge the possibility that the dichotomy is false 00:58 < TMA> nsh: the majority of people will not want the good until they are about to die; the only way out might be to extend lifespan so that the ages below 80 are just a negligible part thereof 00:58 < nsh> and that some better analysis retains other options than the the evils 00:59 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 < nsh> i find 8 year olds have a better intrinsic sense of what's good than 80 year olds 01:01 < nsh> without the maintenance of both neural plasticity and innate childlike innocence/grace, the extension of human lifespan is dubiously beneficial 01:01 < nsh> not everyone gets cumulatively wiser 01:01 < nsh> perhaps vanishingly few 01:01 < nsh> and the correlation of these few with the means to utilise expensive and exclusive technologies is not especially fantastic either 01:02 < TMA> nsh: they lack the ability to generalize though - they do correctly sense that it is bad when they are bossed; they do correctly sense that it is good when they boss someone else -- but they lack the generalization whether bossing is ok or not based on those two observations 01:02 < nsh> the sense of individuality may be the problem to be solved, not the mortality of the individual organism 01:02 < nsh> hmm 01:03 < nsh> yes, i suppose that much is true 01:04 < TMA> the sad thing is that many people do not progress much further 01:05 < TMA> some develop rules of the type 01:05 < TMA> "I am punished when I boss other people, punishment is not good for me, therefore I will not boss others" 01:07 < TMA> but that's still far away from the "golden rule" - treat others as you wish to be treated 01:07 < TMA> and even the golden rule stated this way is lacking 01:08 < nsh> i think it's just a milestone along the way to the development of a substantial ethic 01:08 < nsh> take for example a painter, who might start by learning various principles 01:09 < nsh> but eventually develops an aesthetic and an instinct and can create a work without the conscious application of some set of principles, as they have been distilled into a more sophisticated program 01:09 < TMA> 'treat others as they wish to be treated' might be even better 01:10 < nsh> but this requires a certain degree of empathy which is not currently especially culturally developed 01:12 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:15 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:26 < TMA> we (as a culture/civilization) do not have a reliable way to instill some more advanced concepts into the new generation 01:33 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gjntjuagxrrcqcbv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:40 < TMA> there seems to be some method among the old gentry to instill family values 01:44 < TMA> but that's neither all that reliable or systematic 03:31 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- FriendComputer [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:26 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:28 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:28 < kanzure> yeah i mean if i was russian intelligence i would definitely want to see what articles every country is pulling up through scihub 07:28 < kanzure> hell, i'm not and i still do 07:29 < kanzure> "she has demonstrated significant hacking skills by collecting log-in credentials from journal subscribers" .... which she pays for. 07:43 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 -!- JenElizabeth2 [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:04 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:56 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:02 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@172.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:28 < andytoshi> .title https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/science/dna-testing-kit-present.html 11:28 < EmmyNoether> dna-testing-kit-present 11:28 < andytoshi> lol "To what extent is giving a DNA test also a present for law enforcement? 11:28 < andytoshi> " 11:30 < andytoshi> many of these DNA sites allow people to upload their own data; it is probably a worthwhile project to figure out how to chaff them 11:30 < andytoshi> though e.g. 23andme do their own lab work so they'd be harder to fake out 11:32 < kanzure> unfortunately even if you corrupt their database with poison, another member of your close family is going to do something stupid which will defeat your poison attempt 11:32 < kanzure> iirc it takes only like 30-40 mutations to uniquely identify anyone 12:36 -!- permafleek [permafleek@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/permafleek] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:38 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24 < kanzure> https://github.com/opentimestamps/opentimestamps-client/pull/109 13:26 < nmz787> eddie murphy made a joke about 23andme on Saturday Night Live recently 13:27 < nmz787> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whfQf3Pd5bU 13:27 < nmz787> .title 13:27 < EmmyNoether> Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood 2019 - SNL - YouTube 13:28 < kanzure> https://urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.html 13:30 < kanzure> eh nevermind 13:31 < kanzure> from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21866297 13:36 < nmz787> .title 13:36 < EmmyNoether> Researchers have identified 100 mysteriously disappeared stars in the night sky | Hacker News 13:40 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:42 < archels> Rapidly Exploring Random Trees http://msl.cs.uiuc.edu/rrt/gallery.html 14:21 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:30 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:30 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:30 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:30 < andytoshi> yeah, that's the impression i got from reading articles about it 14:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:30 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [] 16:15 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:37 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:47 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:22 -!- namespace [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe7b:227f] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:29 -!- namespace [~user@li72-90.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:30 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@172.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:42 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:49 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:02 -!- Guest7498 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10 < lsneff> Has anyone here heard about that theory that most massive bodies have tiny cores of stable, superconducting quark matter? 20:10 < lsneff> Trying to find the paper 20:10 < lsneff> And they can be converted into antimatter pretty easily apparently, if they exist of course 20:13 < lsneff> Found it 20:13 < lsneff> .title http://vixra.org/abs/1310.0215 20:13 < EmmyNoether> Sorry, page isn't HTML 20:14 < lsneff> "Powering Starships with Compact Condensed Quark Matter" 20:17 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/black-holes/Are%20black%20hole%20starships%20possible%3f.pdf 20:17 < kanzure> and other things in https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/space/ 20:19 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:20 < kanzure> unrelated not sure if i have shown you this one yet https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/space/Self-deployed%20extremely%20large%20low%20mass%20space%20structures%20-%202007.pdf 20:28 < lsneff> Oh wow, that's fascinating actually. I don't think I've seen that one 20:32 < lsneff> I suppose those don't count as megastructures? 21:17 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@172.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:24 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@172.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@172.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:35 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:36 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 23:48 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Tue Dec 24 00:00:46 2019