--- Log opened Sat Jan 18 00:00:10 2020
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02:57 < cyber_punk> hi guys
02:58 < cyber_punk> are you think bio-immortality or digital-immortality?
03:22 < Urchin> either
03:25 < cyber_punk> die
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03:48 < jrayhawk> I guess the correct answer was "both".
03:49 < jrayhawk> Live and learn, I guess.
03:51 < LeoTal> I admire this person for their commitment to insulting a very specific group.
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04:23 < nsh> maybe invest a tiny bit of effort into understanding consciousness before wasting a lot of effort trying to make finite compounded organisms imperishable
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05:21 < kanzure> nsh: die
05:22 < nsh> on it :)
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06:01 < LeoTal> Well, there's always cryonics, but you have to move to California
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19:21 < docl> so I just had a bizarre thought. Mars has water in its geological history. so it probably has veins of stuff like copper and gold.
19:22 < docl> so maybe elon has a secret plan to get the cost of space launch low enough to harvest the easiest to get bits of gold and bring it home
19:24 < docl> since gold sells at $50k/kg, and methane is $0.40/kg, there's 5 orders of magnitude to play with there
19:25 < kanzure> because mars is easier target than other rocks?
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19:26 < docl> well, I'm thinking the because gold is pre-separated a little better, as the result of erosion processes
19:27 < docl> I'm not sure if solid gold asteroids exist? metallic asteroids come from protoplanet cores, which are alloys that contain gold but are mostly iron
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19:32 < docl> of course the moon has meteor fragments in its regolith. volcanic rocks on the moon are going to have gold mixed in as well. but these would tend to be mix of gold + other metals, without all that aqueous chemistry giving it the chance to precipitate out
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21:48 < maaku> docl: you don't need hydrolic action for precious metal deposits
21:49 < maaku> we look for gold deposited by water in rock veins, *because* we have a water cycle that disolves the stuff and runs it into the ocean
21:49 < maaku> on Mars, you just look around for meteorite fragments which have nuggets of the stuff sitting there in pure form
21:50 < maaku> and there's a lot on the surface *because* there's no water cycle or tectonic plate activity, and enough of the atmosphere to slow down rocks
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21:50 < maaku> (or just go to the source in the belt)
21:53 < maaku> what you might not be aware of is that metals of all sorts precipitated out of the interplanitary medium during planet formation in pure form in macro-sized nugget chunks
21:54 < maaku> which is a much better source of materials than what aqueous chemistry on Earth forces us to work with.. it's just been the best we had access to
21:57 < lsneff> I was trying to think of some way to cheaply do cargo and people transport between settlements on the moon or Mars and the best I can come up with is microwave beamed thermal rocket.
21:58 < lsneff> The main problem is that it requires about a gigwatt of continuous millimeter-wave per ton to orbit on earth apparently
21:59 < lsneff> I don't know if anyone has done the calculations with a different planet in mind
22:00 < maaku> lsneff: silane rocket hopper is probably easier
22:00 < maaku> for calculations on the efficiency of that, see Entering Space by Zubrin
22:01 < lsneff> Oh, that's interesting! Didn't know that existed
22:02 < lsneff> How hard is it to synthesize SiH4?
22:03 < maaku> start with silica, which is abundant in lunar regolith, and bubble hidrogen through it under heat with an electric catalyst
22:04 < maaku> SiO2 + 2H2 -> SiH4 + O2
22:06 < maaku> that's from memory.. could be wrong. Entering Space discusses it
22:07 < maaku> gah, The Case for Space. Sorry.
22:14 < lsneff> Ah, I have that book somewhere around here, will look at it tomorrow
22:17 < lsneff> A beamed thermal rocket can get somewhere around 800-900 isp with h2 reaction mass, might still be worth it over silane/etc due to payload fraction?
22:17 < lsneff> Power requirements might be significantly lower on moon or Mars
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22:20 < maaku> lsneff: how are you going to do the return burn though?
22:20 < maaku> liquid silane fuel requires less infrastructure
22:20 < maaku> and you can power other equipment with it too
22:21 < lsneff> that's definitely true, thermal rockets would only be possible after significant infrastructure
22:21 < lsneff> You put a base station where it lands too.
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22:25 < lsneff> I just like the idea of a thermal rocket using CO2 reaction mass for getting around on mars mostly because it seems very elegant to me.
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--- Log closed Sun Jan 19 00:00:13 2020