--- Log opened Wed Jan 29 00:00:23 2020
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08:10 < kanzure> seeder stats https://phillm.net/libgen-stats-table.php
08:14 < kanzure> this seems to crash the wayback machine page saver.
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08:27 < nsh> hmm
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10:09 < archels> all our institute's business trips to China have been cancelled until further notice
10:11 < lsneff> That seems prudent.
10:21 < lsneff> There's going to be a huge market in a few years (10+ or so) for space suits printed custom for each person.
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10:45 < kanzure> why do we have like zero telomerase things here https://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
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10:50 < kanzure> yashgaroth: why not just inject genetically modified pre-differentiated telomerase-modified stem cells throughout the body?
10:51 < yashgaroth> stem cells already express telomerase, or do you mean all their descendant cells would also express it?
10:52 < yashgaroth> also getting the stem cells where they need to go and integrate successfully, and compete with pre-existing stem cells for production of tissue - short of church's hunter-killer stem cells that actively replace the existing ones
10:53 < kanzure> would a partial mosaic be useful?
10:53 < kanzure> like for aging rejuvenation reasons
10:54 < yashgaroth> man it'd be weird to see a 90 year old where their skin is patchily youthful, like vitiligo but with wrinkles instead of melanin
10:54 < kanzure> someone was pitching me this a few moments ago. my objection was "show me that they have done this in mice" and that the stem cells can live next to (or outcompete, but not necessarily outcompete) the existing tissue
10:54 < kanzure> should be easy, add some fluorescent market to the new stem cells
10:54 < kanzure> ... fluorescent marker, rather.
10:54 < nsh> are undifferentiated stem cells actually histologically useful for anything?
10:54 < yashgaroth> the only successful stem cell replacement technology so far is bone marrow, with the death rate at 50% last I checked
10:55 < nsh> i likes them odds
10:55 < nsh> oh right cause the telemers get shortened and then things get old
10:55 < nsh> is the story
10:55 < yashgaroth> you could excise or selectively kill non-modified tissue after a time, but outside of the liver (and even in the liver) it ain't easy to remove existing tissue
10:56 < nsh> so if you have telemorase being expressed higgledypiggledy everywhere then we live forever
10:56 < nsh> got it
10:56 < nsh> *telomeres
10:56 < nsh> generally spellings
10:56 < yashgaroth> the reason why the newer breast and prostate cancer therapies work is because they kill off that entire tissue, it's only possible with non-essential organs
10:56 < yashgaroth> yes your constant cancer will live forever in that case
10:57 < nsh> i'm long on cancer anyway so it's quids in for me
10:57 < nsh> what we need to do is transfer out consciousness into immortal tumours
10:57 < nsh> *our
10:57 < nsh> (i may have nothing useful to contribute, as usual)
10:58 < nsh> what is the overall mean cell turnover period though i wonder
10:58 < yashgaroth> I feel like accumulated mutations, epigenetic silencing, protein aggregates and dysfunctional mitochondria are at least as responsible as telomeres for aging
10:58 < nsh> well, it would be death by a thousand cuts
10:58 < nsh> because if you were optimising you'd balance the factors resulting in senility roughly equally asymptotically
10:58 < nsh> i had a story for this
10:58 < yashgaroth> transfering consciousness to immortal tumors was a plot point in gibson's count zero novel actually
10:59 < nsh> henry ford sent out his engineers one to go visit all the junkyards and look for ford cars and find the least worn parts
10:59 < nsh> the engineers wondered if he was going to try and get the other parts to be just as long-lasting
10:59 < nsh> when they got back he just said "make those to a lower spec"
10:59 < nsh> so it goes
10:59  * nsh notes to read count zero
11:00 < yashgaroth> or ww2 planners looking where surviving bombers didn't have damage to identify critical areas, or the soviets building tanks that'd only run for about 500km before breaking
11:00  * nsh nods
11:00 < kanzure> but really, why do we not have telomere stuff on that page
11:00 < nsh> poor tanks, knowing they aren't gonna make the return leg
11:00 < nsh> : ' ((
11:01 < nsh> http://book.bionumbers.org/how-quickly-do-different-cells-in-the-body-replace-themselves/
11:02 < nsh> thanks, cold war
11:02 < yashgaroth> the focus on telomerase in the anti-aging community has annoyed me since they think it alone is the fountain of youth, but we can put some of the more rational research on the page
11:02 < nsh> for that c14 spike in the late sixties
11:02 < kanzure> i mean there has to be at least one non-stupid thing from the telomerase fanatics
11:03 < yashgaroth> I think inducible telomerase engineered via germline is a lot more sensible than inducible yamanaka factors, which is the latest craze
11:04 < kanzure> well let's see... surely the hplusroadmap logs will save my crazy ass.
11:05 < kanzure> yashgaroth: http://gnusha.org/logs/telomerase.log
11:06 < kanzure> ah yes, perfect:
11:06 < kanzure> 2019-11-13.log:18:19 < kanzure> did you search the logs or is it just assumed that telomerase-modifying enzymes have never been discussed in here
11:06 < kanzure> 2019-11-13.log:18:20 < kanzure> er, telomere-modifying and telomerase-modifying
11:06 < kanzure> 2020-01-29.log:10:45 < kanzure> why do we have like zero telomerase things here https://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
11:10 < yashgaroth> I'd still like to see telomerase studies in longer-lived animals than mice, natural mice are far less likely to get cancer than humans
11:15 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=760ae82a Bryan Bishop: need telomerase things too >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
11:18 < nsh> .wik Yamanaka factor
11:18 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (wik:99)
11:19 < nsh> .wik Induced pluripotent stem cell
11:19 < EmmyNoether> "Induced pluripotent stem cells (also known as iPS cells or iPSCs) are a type of pluripotent stem cell that can be generated directly from a somatic cell." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_pluripotent_stem_cell
11:19 < nsh> mmm, soma
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11:39 < kanzure> .wik yamanaka factors
11:39 < EmmyNoether> "In biology, reprogramming refers to erasure and remodeling of epigenetic marks, such as DNA methylation, during mammalian development or in cell culture." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamanaka_factors
11:40 < nsh> +1
11:54 < lsneff> David sinclair's lab is apparently using 3/4 of the yamanaka factors to induce cellular rejuvenation.
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14:19 < kanzure> "Patents on the first synthetic insulin expired in 2014, but these newer forms are harder to copy, so the unpatented versions will go through a lengthy Food and Drug Administration approval process and cost more to make. When these insulins come on the market, they may cost just 20 to 40 percent less than the patented versions, Riggs and Greene write."
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20:07 < fenn> .tw https://twitter.com/mccormick_ted/status/1222200483047182336
20:08 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (tw:17)
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20:08 < fenn>  O RLY
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 30 00:00:24 2020