--- Log opened Sun Feb 09 00:00:33 2020
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01:00 < jrayhawk> does modafinil not destroy your sleep?
01:14 < jrayhawk> as gwern goes into some detail about in https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil , the modafinil black market is largely unmolested by law enforcement and you can get cheap Indian generics all over the world (e.g. buymoda.org )
01:22 < jrayhawk> noopept hits the same monoamine pathways as all the other traditional ADHD-treatment pharmacology, so i don't see why it wouldn't work, but i also don't see how its effects on blood pressure would be dramatically different
01:25 < jrayhawk> https://darktka.github.io/
01:40 < jrayhawk> ironically a lot of my input on dietary stuff is going to involve a lot of scaremongering about peptides
01:56 < jrayhawk> https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00003.2008 first and foremost, partial proteolysis of the nitrogen storage protein in wheat called 'gliadin' is extremely well-established to interact with CXCR3 and induce permeability on barrier membranes. Judging from the giant pile of randomized control trials demonstrating that various kinds of autoimmunity and manifestations of the
01:56 < jrayhawk> metabolic syndrome (e.g. hypertension) can be reversed by grain-free diets, it's probable these effects generalize to other grains, and conditionally to a few other specific things as well (casein in dairy, various glycoalkaloids in nightshades, peanut agglutenin).
01:56 < jrayhawk> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24476345 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28394724 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25661189 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28440046 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24473459 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23414424 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23890471
01:57 < jrayhawk> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25828624 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25304296 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27216013 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27235022 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27223304 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118562 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17583796
01:57 < jrayhawk> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003334 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26786351
01:57 < jrayhawk> plus some interesting single-arm prospective stuff https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6373464 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29173519 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28858071
01:57 < jrayhawk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1hQQglrV4 some of the researchers running trials focus specificly on kidneys (mmmkay)
02:00 < jrayhawk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f2jKbzPSr8 was also an interesting demonstration of how important and sensitive vascularization is in the kidneys
02:03 < jrayhawk> https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource adequate intake of calcium management molecules is also critical to good vascular health
02:32 < jrayhawk> eating large quantities pastured egg yolks and/or grass-fed liver would also be an effective way to raise monoamine levels (serotonin for mood stability, dopamine for confidence of inductive signals within the focus/attention control system in the basal ganglia, norepinephrine for alertness/wakefulness) by raising the concentration of what is typically the ratelimiting reactant (choline), but that
02:32 < jrayhawk> would potentially be limited by how much ammonia your kidneys can safely clear.
02:33 < jrayhawk> which you would know better than anyone else
02:39 < jrayhawk> i find it a little weird nobody's brought over any of the russian anxiolytic stimulants yet, such as https://cosmicnootropic.com/products/afobazole
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04:51 < sbp> this saxo is a gift from me to this channel
04:51 < sbp> but this saxo is maintained by nsh, not me
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04:52 < nsh> .botsnack
04:52 < nsh> saxo!
04:52 < saxo> nsh!
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05:59 < fenn> no grain, no milk, no potatoes, no sugar, what's left? just a big pile of cows
06:00  * fenn eats his oat waffle and grumbles
06:05 < kanzure> that's what the bitcoin carnivory diet is based on.
06:05 < kanzure> only meat.
06:05 < fenn> switch to babies, it's healthier
06:05 < fenn> jrayhawk: what, if anything, does choline have to do with serotonin and dopamine levels?
06:10 < jrayhawk> It's pretty common for people with ADD to have MTHFR defects that force methyl donation from choline.
06:11 < fenn> that's something you can test for with DNA analysis right?
06:11 < kanzure> yes.
06:11 < jrayhawk> Yeah.
06:12 < fenn> i remember looking at this and there were like 6 different SNPs with various shades of red yellow and green
06:12 < fenn> the redness or greenness of a particular SNP doesn't lead to an immediately obvious decision of "this is the cause" or not
06:13 < jrayhawk> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347607005513 odds ratio of 7.4 for A1298C and inattentive type
06:14 < fenn> websites like promethease should have implemented some simple multi-SNP decision-making algorithms
06:14 < fenn> otherwise people will just implicitly have to do it themselves anyway, and probably get it wrong
06:15 < jrayhawk> well, it typically doesn't hurt to experiment anyway
06:16 < jrayhawk> especially with monoamine issues, there's a bajillion moving parts and not every relevant defect has been well-characterized
06:16 < jrayhawk> TAAR1 is still a very active area of research
06:18 < jrayhawk> kanzure: you like to overdisclose things... what are your MTHFR/COMT/MAO/TAAR1 genetics like?
06:21 < kanzure> 23andme seems to disagree with snpedia's rs1801133.. hrm.
06:22 < kanzure> and rs2274976...
06:22 < kanzure> for rs1801133 23andme says the variants are A and G, and snpedia says that's not true
06:22 < jrayhawk> Yeah, I was a little surprised C677T wasn't more correlated with attention deficit, given that it's the way more severe one.
06:24 < kanzure> COMT Val158Met rs4680(G/G)
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06:41 < jrayhawk> My mental model of attention deficit disorder is that hyperactive type is about the signal-to-noise ratio of tonic-to-phasic dopamine in the basal ganglia being too low to sustain attentional focus on any one thing for very long, and that inattentive type is about more general dopamine deficiency in the basal ganglia causing in inability to focus attention on much of anything at all.
06:41 < jrayhawk> COMT seems to be a major determinant of the ratio.
06:42 < jrayhawk> I don't have a good grasp on how e.g. TAAR1 agonists alter that ratio.
06:43 < jrayhawk> Or why MAO-B/TAAR1 exists independent of MAO-A
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07:02 < fenn> .botfight
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07:59 < kanzure> what's our best idea on aging
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08:40 < fenn> do you mean "how does aging work" or "how to stop aging"
08:40 < fenn> or "this clue points at..."
08:41 < fenn> harold katcher makes the excellent point, "as shown in heterochronic transplantation using mammalian tissues, the environment, and basically signaling alone will rejuvenate old tissues and organs should show that cellular aging is not cell-autonomous. The very fact that cells can be rejuvenated refutes the notion that aging is damage and that goes for induction to pluripotence as well."
08:51 < fenn> TIL walking is an olympic sport
08:52 < fenn> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_walking
08:52 < saxo> "Racewalking, or race walking, is a long-distance discipline within the sport of athletics. Although it is a foot race, it is different from running in that one foot must appear to be in contact with the ground at all times." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racewalking
08:52 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (wik:99)
08:52 < fenn> emmy!
08:52 < fenn> shut yo mouf!
08:58 < kanzure> nsh: let's retire EmmyNoether ?
08:59 < kanzure> on another note, i finally saw blade runner.
09:00 < jrayhawk> which one
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09:01 < kanzure> jrayhawk: half of "the final cut"
09:04 < kanzure> we need better arguments against the "anti-aging investment but only if it benefits me, not nextgen progeny" crowd..
09:06 < kanzure> i mean, i'm not one to tell people that they shouldn't be focused on  self-anti-aging interventions... it's a noble goal for sure... but i'm pretty sure we have no great ideas for this.
09:06 < kanzure> and on the other hand, we have much more powerful ideas for anti-aging in germline modification
09:08 < fenn> we do/
09:08 < kanzure> "grow superintelligent children to figure out adult therapies"
09:08 < fenn> ?
09:08 < fenn> lol what
09:08 < kanzure> fenn: basic stuff like increase p53 copies
09:09 < fenn> ... to delay cancer in old age?
09:09 < kanzure> is that bad
09:09 < fenn> why do we need to use germline engineering to do that?
09:10 < kanzure> because it's the only method for delivering genetic modifications to every cell in the body.
09:10 < fenn> and it doesn't solve the problem of aging, which is the bigger issue
09:10 < yashgaroth> it delays the death part, which is what they're trying to do until something better comes along
09:12 < fenn> i'm going to stick with "try to cure aging" then
09:12 < kanzure> any of your gene therapies is going to be more effective as a germline intervention anyway....
09:12 < fenn> there are a lot of life extension therapies that don't involve gene therapy
09:13 < fenn> do mice die of cancer in old age?
09:13 < yashgaroth> rarely, unless they've been engineered to
09:15 < fenn> if katcher is right, and aging is an extracellular signal, then we don't need to transform every cell in the body
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09:16 < yashgaroth> if
09:16 < kanzure> aging seems to be a million things.
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09:23 < fenn> 'the first mitochondrial-coded protein to be discovered was named Humanin, because it was found to improve cognitive function to dementia patients, restoring some of their "humanity".  In addition to being neuroprotective, humanin promotes insulin sensitivity.  Humannin's action is not confined to the mitochondrion in which it was produced, but in fact it  circulates in the blood as a
09:23 < fenn> signal molecule.  Blood levels of humanin decline with age.'
09:27 < yashgaroth> surely some anti-ager has had that synthesized and injected it? it'd be quite cheap
09:32 < fenn> pinchas cohen and nik barzilai have started a company to do something with humanin
09:32 < fenn> "If humanin were a patentable drug, there would be much excitement and multiple clinical trials for AD"
09:35 < kanzure> GRG has emails on humanin going back to 2010 (seems to mention barzilai too)
09:35 < fenn> HNG Peptide (human) - also called S14G-Humanin is a mitochondrial derived peptide. It is a more potent neuroprotective factor than native humanin. HNG is around 1,000 times more potent than Humanin. Sequence: H-Met-Ala-Pro-Arg-Gly-Phe-Ser-Cys-Leu-Leu-Leu-Leu-Thr-Gly-Glu-Ile-Asp-Leu-Pro-Val-Lys-Arg-Arg-Ala-OH"
09:40 < kanzure> got anything else?
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09:41 < fenn> of course, but i'm not feeling like listing over 9000 therapies
09:44 < fenn> jeez why is C60 over $100/g
09:44 < fenn> it's basically lampblack, the stuff they use in car tires
09:51 < kanzure> what do i pay you people for
10:09 < jrayhawk> hosting
10:09 < kanzure> fffffff
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10:55 < maaku> fenn: if you want *just* C60, and not a bunch of other stuff in a black goop, you gotta pay for it
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11:28 < kanzure> okay here's one of my wacky ideas,
11:29 < kanzure> someone should do iterated selection of implanted organoids for total rejuvenative effect
11:29 < kanzure> just slap the organoid into some well-chosen tissue and call it a day
11:29 < kanzure> check back later to make sure it got vascularized and that the cells are still doing celly things.
11:29 < kanzure> harvest cells that have positive effect, and repeat in iterated cycles until the effect is strong.
11:30 < kanzure> also introduce radiation and mutation or other genetic engineering in between each cycle...
11:31 < kanzure> this could be done in animal models too, which is sort of nice
11:32 < fenn> ahem cancer
11:36 < kanzure> yeah i mean i don't think they care about so much about cancer as the dying part
11:39 < fenn> i think regular old thymus organoids would extend lifespan, if not rejuvenation
11:40 < fenn> by increasing natural defenses against cancer
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11:45 < kanzure> fenn: context is GRG called me asking what my best idea is and offering money
11:47 < kanzure> and that, after a request for proposals, apparently my germline rant was the best candidate (although evidently they are exclusively focused on adult aging interventions)
11:47 < juri_> no "get the hell out of these meat machines"?
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11:49 < kanzure> they are also against brain uploading, which sounds stupid but yeah....
11:56 < juri_> I'd accept an intermediate state; put me in a rack, as long as i get the time to solve the rest of the problem...
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12:54 < lsneff> Do they say why they're against uploading?
12:57 < kanzure> "it's not me"
12:59 < lsneff> Right, I shouldn't be surprised
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13:03 < kanzure> goal is to survive through an entire singularity where we can't generally predict we'll come through 100% in tact, and their concern is "well it's not 100% me"....
13:03 < kanzure> voldemort1: be greeted
13:09 < voldemort1> Thanks for the welcome kanzure, but to be honest I'm not really sure I'm I on the right channel.
13:10 < voldemort1> @search reinforcement learning and optimal control
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13:13 < lsneff> kanzure: Yeah, but I can still understand why they'd like to keep their "humanity".
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13:19 < lsneff> There's an interesting post on project rho that talks about future shock
13:20 < lsneff> Most people can only comprehend one level above where they currently are, and any more makes them ignore it.
13:21 < lsneff> http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/scisociety.php#futureshocklevels
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13:42 < lsneff> https://web.archive.org/web/20190428221355/https://sl4.org/
13:42 < kanzure> no it's identical. so nevermind.
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13:54 < kanzure> .title https://security.googleblog.com/2020/01/say-hello-to-opensk-fully-open-source.html
13:54 < saxo> Google Online Security Blog: Say hello to OpenSK: a fully open-source security key implementation
13:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/google/OpenSK
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14:16 < lsneff> How do you all keep notes? I've recently set up a digital note keeping system for myself gives me a new file every morning to use as a notepad and then at night, it moves the contents into a single file that contains every day's notes and creates a new one for the next day.
14:16 < lsneff> Curious to see what you all have come up with
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14:29 < fenn> i write yaml in a text file with nano, one per project
14:34 < lsneff> yaml? my condolences
14:39 < kanzure> lsneff: i have a 6 MB yaml file where i track every person and every conversation i've had with them since january 2009
14:39 < fenn> it was very similar to the plain text format i was using before, so i figured i might as well make it computer-readable
14:40 < kanzure> lsneff: and as you know, i also take notes by typing in real-time at conferences https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/
14:41 < lsneff> kanzure: Of course, yeah
14:41 < kanzure> i also use jotmuch for tagged bookmarks. but it's deprecated and i think everyone else migrated to buku.
14:42 < kanzure> https://github.com/jarun/buku
14:48 < lsneff> How in depth are you with recording your conversations?
14:49 < kanzure> i try to pick at least 10 descriptive tags
14:49 < superkuh> I've used a single text file since 2004.
14:50 < superkuh> Before that I used a proprietary rich-text note taking application and lost pretty much everything.
14:50 < lsneff> superkuh: Any specific formatting?
14:50 < lsneff> Ah, yeah, that's why I didn't want to use an app or website
14:51 < kanzure> xentrac also uses a big plain textfile.
14:53 < superkuh> Not really. The only formatting that I do is "!!!" at the start of the line meaning this is something I have to do.
14:53 < lsneff> I'm partial to markdown, but it'd be nice if it had some way to tag things
14:53 < superkuh> Tagging comes naturally when everything you're doing is in the entry.
14:55 < lsneff> Everything?
14:56 < kanzure> just grep the text for the tag that you naturally typed.
14:56 < superkuh> Right.
14:56 < kanzure> just grep the text for the tag that you naturally typed. advice lsneff plaintext productivity
14:56 < lsneff> Ah, yeah that makes sense
14:56 < lsneff> What about dividing by date?
14:57 < lsneff> Do you just do that naturally, or use some file structure to do it?
14:57 < fenn> version control?
14:57 < superkuh> My technique for that is a bit lax. I basically read back from the top of the file till I get to a point where I don't identify with the person who wrote the statements anymore.
14:57 < superkuh> Then I put in a divider made out of ????????...
14:57 < superkuh> On average that makes it cut up into 1 to 2 month sections.
14:58 < fenn> suddenly i feel like one of those polygons in flatland seeing a 3 dimensional finger coming out of nowhere
14:59 < kanzure> https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/115015843628-I-m-Transgender-Will-This-Impact-My-DNA-Test-Kit-Experience
14:59 < lsneff> Yeah, i've got it in git, it backs up every evening, guess it makes sense to just rely on that to date specific notes to a date
14:59 < fenn> i think git-blame can show you the last modified date of each line
15:00 < superkuh> Generally I'll write the dates for things that have dates and then can date between separators vaguely.
15:05 < maaku> lsneff: I would like to use my phone and wearables to record all conversations I make, 24/7
15:05 < maaku> i haven't gotten around to actually implementing this though
15:05 < lsneff> Interesting idea, though I'm not sure how I like the sound of it
15:05 < lsneff> Storage is pretty cheap these days
15:06 < maaku> battery life is the bigger issue
15:06 < lsneff> True
15:06 < lsneff> Maybe it'd still be okay as long as you just stored it locally on the phone until it was plugged in?
15:07 < maaku> no nefarious intent, rather for productivity reasons (real-time transcription to a grep'able log, parse for actions, etc.)
15:07 < kanzure> lsneff: also another thing i do for organizing tidbits that will otherwise be lost to time is https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki and http://gnusha.org/logs/
15:08 < maaku> just engaging the mic and recording takes a bit of juice, especially on something like the Apple Watch
15:08 < maaku> the thing barely makes it through the day on a single charge.. with recording it might go dead in the afternoon
15:09 < maaku> also, would love to capture all the cute things my kids say within earshot of me throughout the day
15:10 < maaku> I did find a chinese made device that looks like a fitbit and can record for 8hrs straight, but I think most of the benefit will come from real-time trancription, not batch at the end of the day
15:12 < lsneff> What's the difference between real-time transcription and batch transcription?
15:12 < lsneff> You want to be able to refer to things during the day?
15:12 < kanzure> when i publish conference transcripts people only care if i'm done within a few seconds, if i give it to them a week later they literally don't care
15:14 < kanzure> i think this is a locality effect, like people within earshot of the talk want a copy, but once they go home and spread out, they lose context and don't hear about the content as available
15:14 < lsneff> maaku: Do you think current transcription tech is good enough to be able to grep through it?
15:14 < kanzure> mozilla's deepspeech implementation is okay, better than mine (i had like 20% word error rate)
15:15 < lsneff> I have the google recorder app on my phone and it's pretty damn impressive
15:15 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/baidu-deep-learning-for-speech-recognition/
15:17 < maaku> lsneff: I've attended meetings that kanzure provided live transcriptions for. the google doc he was typing into was projected onto the wall
15:17 < lsneff> yes, but what about automatic transcription, like you were referring to?
15:17 < kanzure> oh yeah, that one was intense
15:18 < kanzure> there was a pile of chinese miners in the room that could read english very well, but spoken english was less understandable
15:18 < maaku> it was paradigm shifting to have meeting minutes being created live, with people editing changes. even more so since half the participants weren't native english speakers
15:18 < kanzure> and our translator became tired and couldn't continue (it was a lot of work to be fair)
15:19 < kanzure> i think this was it https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.html
15:19 < kanzure> no wait that's wrong. that was zurich.
15:19 < maaku> the automatic translation is to remove kanzure's fingers from the critical path
15:19 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/2016-july-bitcoin-developers-miners-meeting/cali2016/
15:19 < kanzure> there we go.
15:20 < maaku> *automatic transcription
15:21 < maaku> Deep Speech crossed the limit to being better-than-human error rates.
15:21 < maaku> in practice there's some weird reasons why kanzure's transcripts are still better though. he doesn't actually type literally every word that is said, which is often a good thing (although sometimes a s/Facebook/vampires/ creeps in)
15:22 < maaku> i have ideas for how you can merge a GPT-2 like language model with a Deep Speech like transcription service to provide automatic "corrected" transcripts, but that's a research project I don't have time for
15:23 < kanzure> there's also an aspect of technical familiriaty (i'm not typing out "You tea ex ohs")
15:23 < kanzure> familiarity
15:23 < lsneff> Have you thought about running deep speech on something like a raspberry pi that you stick in your backpack or whatnot to do the real-time transcriptions?
15:25 < kanzure> https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/op-ed:-want-to-learn-about-bitcoin-try-contributing-a-transcript-2019-11-26
15:25 < maaku> lsneff: just do it on the phone
15:25 < lsneff> Wouldn't drain the phones battery then
15:26 < lsneff> But sure
15:26 < maaku> newer phones have good inference hardware that would be a lower marginal power drain than the RasPi
15:27 < maaku> You'd have to keep your phone plugged into an external battery or something.
15:27 < maaku> But that's true of the Pi too
15:27 < kanzure> actually wait, 1.5m words divided by 150 wpm is 10,000 hours of typing
15:28 < kanzure> have i really spent more than a straight year typing?
15:28 < maaku> multiply that by your hourly rate
15:28 < kanzure> $7 million dollars
15:28 < jrayhawk> 1.5m words divided by 150 wpm is 10,000 minutes of typing
15:29 < jrayhawk> or 166 hours of typing
15:29 < kanzure> oh good
15:30 < kanzure> you pass butter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ht-ZyJOV2k
15:31 < lsneff> I feel like it'd be nice to somehow funnel a bunch of different sources into a single notes file
15:32 < lsneff> Like all the irc conversations that day, all the emails you got, the websites you accessed, etc
15:32 < kanzure> i think they have that in utah right?
15:33 < lsneff> in utah?
15:34 < maaku> lsneff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
15:34 < lsneff> Haha, I suppose they do
15:35 < jrayhawk> i know a guy who uses a google drive unlimited account for that. i think they're up to a bit over 2 petabytes.
15:35 < lsneff> That's not too bad
15:36 < lsneff> I bet we'll have hard drives with that much space in a decade or two
15:36 < jrayhawk> that's a bit ambitious
15:36 < lsneff> memristors were supposed to get there
15:36 < lsneff> 1 petabit per cm3
15:39 < jrayhawk> commercial memristor memory is less dense than NAND
15:40 < lsneff> Yeah, unfortunately
15:40 < lsneff> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memristor#cite_ref-95
15:40 < lsneff> anyhow
15:40 < lsneff> I appreciate the advice about note taking
15:41 < kanzure> optimal thing to do is to structure things such that when you learn new information you can incorporate it into your tools and then forget it about instead of having to read notes
15:45 < lsneff> Yeah, I think I'm just going to go to the single-file route
15:49 < kanzure> what's the largest dose of galantamine i can buy
15:52 < lsneff> Might be possible to synthesize it?
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16:26 < fenn> should have called it "death lily extract" or similar
16:27 < fenn> hm strange someone deleted that name from wikipedia
16:27 < fenn> or i fell through another time portal.. sigh
16:29 < fenn> i guess i'll have to settle for "hell flower"
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16:30 < fenn> "this flower has more than 1000 names"
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16:31 < kanzure> you may be thinking of the 1000 names of vishnu
16:31 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_Sahasranama#The_Thousand_Names_of_Lord_Vishnu
16:32 < fenn> buddhism seems to have a general fascination with stonkin huge numbers
16:33 < kanzure> no let's go back to counting how many hubble volumes i can count
16:39 < fenn> it's probably saturation boosted but still looks pretty cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lycoris_radiata_-_Kinchakuda_Plateau,_Hidaka,_Saitama.jpg
16:41 < fenn> is there a reason to take galantamine instead of huperzine?
16:42 < kanzure> i remember having to shovel a lot of huperzine out of a tub
16:42 < kanzure> probably bought it wrong
16:42 < fenn> iirc the standard dose is in micrograms
16:42 < fenn> are you thinking choline?
16:43 < kanzure> i think it was huperzine A, but you might be right
16:43 < fenn> same thing
16:44 < kanzure> welp anyway, i had better results (dreams) with galantamine
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16:47 < lsneff> Are you using it for memory enhancement?
16:48 < kanzure> no
16:48 < fenn> well this sounds interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladostigil
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16:51 < fenn> do any of these drugs actually work for treating alzheimer's disease?
16:56 < fenn> in 2020 academic papers shouldn't be using initials for author names
16:56 < fenn> there's more than enough bits to write your full name
16:59 < fenn> why did i think galantamine was structurally similar to adamantane.. they're not similar at all
17:00 < fenn> ah..
17:00 < fenn> .wik memantine
17:00 < saxo> "Memantine is a medication used to treat moderate-to-severe Alzheimer's disease. It is less preferred than acetylcholinesterase inhibitors such as donepezil." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memantine
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17:08 < lsneff> Are taking it as a preventative measure then?
17:20 < fenn> for lucid dreaming, apparently
17:24 < kanzure> yes
17:24 < kanzure> well, just dreaming in my case
17:24 < kanzure> it's not necessarily lucid dreaming
17:26 < lsneff> Ah, that's interesting
17:26 < lsneff> I don't really dream much
17:27 < kanzure> take galantamine
17:27 < lsneff> Is dreaming beneficial?
17:27 < kanzure> beats the hell out of staying still bored for 6 hours/night
17:28 < lsneff> I mean, I don't really experience consciousness while I'm asleep, so I wouldn't say I'm bored during it
17:29 < superkuh> You probably do and just don't remember it.
17:29 < lsneff> Yes, people say that when I mention I don't dream. Could definitely be the case
17:30 < kanzure> https://xkcd.com/269/ https://blog.xkcd.com/2007/05/28/tools-for-dream-typing/comment-page-1/
17:33 < lsneff> Randall is joking, right?
17:33 < kanzure> was i joking when i did sleeptyping?
17:33 < kanzure> well it's sort of a half-truth thing.
17:34 < kanzure> people really do sign language in their sleep
17:34 < kanzure> so it's not inconceivable... but in practice i'm not sure i have really confirmed sleepfulness and typing at the same time.
17:35 < kanzure> http://aslsafari.blogspot.com/2006/05/do-deaf-sign-in-their-sleep.html
17:42 < fenn> lsneff: i've read kanzure's actual dream transcripts. it's not a joke. but it is hilarious
17:44 < lsneff> How do you even train yourself to type in your sleep?
17:44 < fenn> you just put your hands on the keyboard
17:45 < fenn> they can get shifted by 1 key which is a problem that ought to be easy to fix with software
17:49 < lsneff> I'll give it a try someday
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18:38 < lsneff> kanzure: how often do you add a new disclaimer to this channel? I swear there are a few since the last time I checked
19:14 < lsneff> ^ in the topic, that is
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