--- Log opened Sun Mar 01 00:00:10 2020 00:00 < fenn> .title https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/science/metal-plants-farm.html 00:00 < saxo> metal-plants-farm 00:00 < fenn> no saxo, bad bot. 00:01 < fenn> Down on the Farm That Harvests Metal From Plants 00:01 < fenn> Hyper-accumulating plants thrive in metallic soil that kills other vegetation, and botanists are testing the potential of phytomining. 00:01 < fenn> a sap that oozes a neon blue-green. This “juice” is actually one-quarter nickel 00:02 < fenn> .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0375674218302620?via%3Dihub 00:02 < saxo> The first tropical ‘metal farm’: Some perspectives from field and pot experiments - ScienceDirect 00:03 < fenn> maybe they're doing cold fusion 00:06 < fltrz> "The father of modern mineral smelting, Georgius Agricola, saw this potential 500 years ago. He smelted plants in his free time. " is his name where "agriculture" comes from? 00:06 < fltrz> cant be can it 00:06 < fenn> agricola means farmer 00:07 < fltrz> oh, I expected the word to be shorter than 4 syllables in most languages... one or two at most.. 00:13 < fltrz> fenn, thx for the article, its nice to read some potentially good news some times 00:16 < fltrz> https://www.jstor.org/stable/41146725?seq=1 < is this the essentially verbatim writing of Agricola, almost 500 years old, charged for $45? 00:16 < fenn> his name is appropriate. Antony van der Ent 00:16 < fltrz> sounds implausible, ... who owns the original Agricola writings? 00:17 < fenn> it's someone writing about agricola. contains very few to no actual quotes 00:26 < fltrz> fenn, does it have references to original writings? 00:26 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:27 < fenn> just add sci-hub.tw/ to the front of the url 00:28 < fltrz> fenn, imagine a plot of land has metal X but the phytomining plant needs metals X and Y... would it be necessary to add metal Y as a kind of fertilizer, to have the plant thrive in order to absorb X (and Y)? 00:29 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29 < fltrz> also, its not entirely clear what the lifecycle of these metal are in a "steady state" ecosystem sense? 00:30 < fenn> presumably when the plant dies it goes back into the soil nearby 00:30 < fltrz> animals feed on the plants, or do they die and decompose for the next generation? 00:30 < fenn> the metals may be protective of the plant because they're toxic to animals 00:31 < fenn> presumably this is why sea slugs concentrate e.g. uranium and vanadium 00:31 < fltrz> fenn, I was thinking the same, but I suspect there's other loops in the lifecycle diagram we are not aware of... 00:34 < fltrz> fenn, is it then a coincidence or somehow logical that the same plant stands out with 2 relatively uniques strategies, which BOTH effectively amount to decreasing interaction with other organisms: one is thriving where the competition doesn't thrive, other is being poisonous for predators... 01:09 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:19 < nmz787> kanzure: I never thought of Corona Discharge as a disgusting combination of words, since it's basically just a form of lightning bolt / plasma... but I guess I can put myself in the gutter where your mind must be lurking ;) 01:19 < nmz787> .wik corona discharge 01:19 < saxo> "A corona discharge is an electrical discharge brought on by the ionization of a fluid such as air surrounding a conductor that is electrically charged." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge 02:20 -!- crockwork_ [~crockwork@66.205.192.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:20 -!- crockwork_ [~crockwork@66.205.192.50] has quit [Client Quit] 05:59 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:19 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:22 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:24 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:20 < lsneff> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17236700 07:20 < saxo> We are developing a matter compiler. We are working on designing molecular Lego ... | Hacker News 07:47 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.214] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:12 < kanzure> lsneff: yes we have a few lisp obsessed people in here as well. i forget which one of us was particularly obsessed with his lisp compiler. 08:13 < kanzure> unfortunately he seems to be mostly focused on lisp compilers than molecular lego 08:13 < kanzure> maybe eudoxia.... 08:14 < lsneff> I might email the professor who posted that to see what he's up to these days. 08:14 < kanzure> he's in uh.. what's his channel on here.. 08:15 < kanzure> it's #clasp 08:15 < kanzure> that's where he's active. 08:20 < lsneff> The github for the project doesn't appear to still be active. 08:23 < lsneff> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22457340 08:23 < lsneff> .title 08:23 < saxo> It's going well. I'll post something soon. We've just been working on it quietly... | Hacker News 08:34 < lsneff> Odd that he happened to post on hn for the first time in 9 months on the day that I found a post of his from two years ago... 09:22 < justanotheruser> molecular lego is more important 09:27 < fltrz> lsneff, perhaps his/her comments are born? 10:14 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:17 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:01 < juri_> haskell? 11:20 < lsneff> maaku, kanzure: thirdlaw.tech, they're designing structures with rigid spiroligomers. Similar to protein blocks, but smaller and more rigid. 11:21 < lsneff> Potentially, could be use to make motors and mechanical arms at the nanoscale. 11:29 < kanzure> see http://gnusha.org/logs/2016-10-03.log http://gnusha.org/logs/2017-08-28.log http://gnusha.org/logs/2018-06-05.log http://gnusha.org/logs/2018-07-25.log etc.. 11:30 < kanzure> all praise the mighty logs, logger of.. logs. 12:05 -!- shmeebegek [6884015f@104.132.1.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43 < kanzure> .wik mushikago no cagaster 12:43 < saxo> "A list of anime that debuted in theaters between January 1 and December 31, 2020. / A list of anime television series that debuted between January 1 and December 31, 2020. / A list of original net animations that debuted between January 1 and December 31, 2020. / " - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_in_anime 12:44 < kanzure> hmph 12:46 < lsneff> Interesting that it mentions "December 31, 2020" in the past tense. 12:51 < kanzure> eh nevermind 13:32 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:53 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 15:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:36 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39 < lsneff> Just watched 2030, about FM-2030, sort of a docu-drama 15:40 < lsneff> .title http://2030thefilm.com/# 15:40 < saxo> No title found 15:52 < fenn> just read sylvia kronstadt's memoirs/extended suicide note 15:52 < fenn> http://kronstantinople.blogspot.com 15:52 < fenn> Honey, I advise against it." 16:00 < kanzure> .title https://rootsofprogress.org/epistemic-standards-for-why-it-took-so-long 16:00 < saxo> Epistemic standards for “Why did it take so long to invent X?” 16:01 < kanzure> https://rootsofprogress.org/progress-studies-a-moral-imperative 16:04 < kanzure> https://rootsofprogress.org/enlightenment-now 16:05 < kanzure> https://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Progress-Studies-Meetup-Group 16:18 < fenn> a bicycle does not _require_ ball bearings 16:19 < lsneff> I bet a clever person could make "ball bearings" out of wood as well, if they're necessary. 16:22 < fenn> i find it strange that someone with such a poor grasp of mechanical engineering would be writing such an article 16:27 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:27 < kanzure> perhaps go see if he can listen, if not by email then in person 16:46 < kanzure> "My favourite example of an "idea behind its time" is the torque amplifier, which enabled mechanical analog computers on invention in the early 1900s. It is made of nothing more complicated than a source of rotary power, a couple drums/pulleys, and string/rope." 16:46 < fenn> warner brothers actually animated this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son 16:46 < kanzure> yeah i've seen it 16:47 < kanzure> ah looks like they took it down from youtube 16:47 < kanzure> ah okay, there's two versions 16:47 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZjrOEs8Ss0 16:48 < fenn> no i mean a real animation, released in 2020 16:49 < fenn> that's pretty funny too 16:53 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:35 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22456700 17:55 < saxo> UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay | Hacker News 18:14 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:17 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:44 < fltrz> kanzure, weren't torque amplifiers in use for a long time on large sailing ships? to lift anchors or for loading wares on and off boats? 18:46 < fltrz> i.e. a vertical axle running through multiple floors of the ship, on each floor the axle would have 2 orthogonal bars through it, so per floor 4 sailors could apply torque, then on the deck the rope would be looped around the rotating pole with friction, so that if the controller pulls on his side of the rope 18:47 < fltrz> the rope would be pulled taut around the pole and the 4 x N workers are applying torque on the rope, and if the controller stopped pulling, a small amount of rotation by the sailor results in the rope loosening grip 19:06 < fltrz> hmm having EAN code to price and/location lookup of shows would be handy for consumers 19:06 < fltrz> of * shops 19:08 < fltrz> this could be crowd-sourced through an app: pay for more than X lookups per month, and Y extra lookups whenever you can locate a new EAN code in a shop at a GPS location... instead of kids hunting pokemon you can hunt products and prices... 19:10 < fltrz> once shops notice they are present on a level playing field platform, it is in their interest to go through a shop-facing portal for the app, so they can maintain accurate current pricing, instead of spamming citizens with paper advertising in their mail boxes... 19:11 < fltrz> the app can demote result ranking as a function of deceptive tactics (discounts for very low stock / product counts, etc) 19:13 < fltrz> you can get rewards for both finding new EAN codes in a shop, as well as for verifying new EAN codes / pricing submitted by others (to discourage one time offerings etc) 20:19 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: MAXIMUM SOFTCORE] 20:20 -!- Alchemical_ [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:28 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:38 < fltrz> how does nutrition content of specific foods change with food age? does the protein and or specific amino acid content decay? if so by which processes? 20:40 < fltrz> it seems like city level planning and policy would do well by stockpiling cheap nutritious foods, but this means the food nearing expiration would either be thrown away or have to be eaten in "normal times" as opposed to emergencies. this seems like a perfect fit for food banks for the poor 20:41 < fltrz> i.e. the poor can get very cheap or free food, and we have a stockpile of nutritious food in case of emergencies (outbreaks, sieges, ...) 20:42 < fltrz> the problem statement may be too expensive to calculate for a single city, but all the cities could chip in for the software and analysis for a scientifically sound emergency food stockpiling policy 20:59 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:32 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] --- Log closed Mon Mar 02 00:00:12 2020