--- Log opened Mon Mar 02 00:00:12 2020 00:11 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:10 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:36 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:58 < fenn> vitamins degrade into inactive compounds, fats oxidize and become pro-inflammatory, moisture changes texture, mold and bacteria grow. fats, sugars, starches, and proteins are ok for very long periods 04:59 < fenn> in short "poor people food" is already made from the things that store longer and cost less to store 05:00 < fenn> er, the second "fats" shouldnt be there 05:01 < fenn> saturated fats last much longer but it's rare to find a fat that's entirely composed of saturated fatty acids 05:02 < fenn> omega-3 fats are the worst, followed by omega-6, followed by monounsaturated fats 05:03 < fltrz> fenn, are there typical decay curves? will gamma irradiated foods admit mold / bacteria to grow? 05:03 < fenn> most dried vegetable good like, say, corn meal, contain enough residual fat to go bad over a couple years 05:04 < fenn> it is possible to completely sterilize food to prevent mold growth 05:04 < fenn> i think irradiation does give a head start to oxidation processes, which are exponential chain reactions 05:05 < fltrz> I see, iodine addition number 05:05 < fenn> usually food that's irradiated is also nitrogen purged and hermetically sealed 05:05 < fltrz> I thought it was CO2, not nitrogen, thanks for pointing out 05:06 < fenn> CO2 can affect the flavor and pH 05:06 < fenn> in nature it's an indication that fermentation has happened 05:07 < fltrz> yeah, makes sense 05:07 < fenn> i think nitrogen is cheaper too 05:09 < fenn> your policy proposal is just one in a long line of things that could be done better. having spare hospital capacity for emergencies is an obvious example 05:10 < fenn> just entire wings that are normally shut down and off limits until needed 05:10 < fenn> stockpiles of particulate masks is another no brainer 05:11 < fenn> the real problem is at an earlier point in the process 05:20 < TMA> usually the "protective atmosphere" is a N3 + CO2 mixture according to labels showing composition 05:24 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25 < fenn> what fraction CO2? 400ppm? 05:29 < fltrz> fenn, I certainly agree about the list being long, and the mistake being the lack of proper preparations in the past... 05:39 < fenn> i mean earlier in the process of deciding what policy ought to be 05:39 < fenn> how all of society is arranged and so on 05:56 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:22 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:50 < archels_> grr, no more business trips to France now 06:50 < archels_> I'm fearing for my trip to Cambridge next week 06:51 < kanzure> fear is the mindkiller 06:57 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:34 < TMA> fenn: for meats/dairy products the ratio is reportedly 20-30% CO2 rest N2 (O2 "contamination" allowed <1%) 07:34 < TMA> fenn: source: https://www.svscr.cz/ochranna_atmosfera_neochranuje/ 08:03 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.214] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:54 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:05 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:16 -!- shmeebegek [6884015f@104.132.1.95] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:16 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:17 < shmeebegek> some rumors around that COVID-19 is a retrovirus. anybody know if that's at all credible? 09:21 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:28 < yashgaroth> it would need both an integrase and reverse transcriptase enzyme, neither of which are in its genome...I'm guessing the rumor is related to the reports of cryptic reinfection? 09:29 < shmeebegek> yeah - but herpes recurs, and it's not 09:30 < shmeebegek> that's good to know, thanks 09:33 < yashgaroth> a virus needs a stage where its genome is encoded in DNA to have a chance at remaining inside a cell's genome, which is true for herpes and retrovirus but not covid 09:43 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:19 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30 < shmeebegek> yashgaroth: really clear explanations, thanks so much 11:33 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:08 < lsneff> kanzure: Have you ever considered switching to matrix? 12:23 < kanzure> yes, and then i realized i hated change and sworn myself to never make such an error 12:25 < juri_> kanzure: you be you. 12:25 < juri_> also, when are we getting conciousness backups? I ain't getting any younger. or smarter. 12:26 < kanzure> nectome 12:34 < lsneff> Yeah, you could probably do it right now. Just don't expect to wake up anytime soon. 12:34 < juri_> welp; back to work then. 12:39 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:46 < darsie> Why does Ken suggest ASC at -135 C? I can't find a refrigerant boiling at that temperature at 1 bar. 12:47 < kanzure> probably mcintyre's thesis publication? 12:47 < kanzure> wait i mean his manuscript it wasn't a phd thesis 12:48 < darsie> https://youtu.be/ejIKy5R4uGM?t=477 Mhm, it's McIntyre 12:49 < darsie> "Once 65% w/v ethylene glycol was reached, we vitrified brains at -135 °C for indefinite long-term storage." 12:50 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:50 < darsie> I wonder how long South pole temperatures would preserve a brain. 12:51 < kanzure> darsie: https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/nectome-1517-2018/ 12:51 < darsie> −25.9 °C - −60 °C 12:53 < darsie> I thought of a cold storage in central Australia powerd by the day/night temperature difference. Or in an asteroid wrapped in IR emitting and VIS reflecting foil. 12:57 < maaku> if you're eeking environmental temperature differences, maybe ocean thermal energy conversion between the antarctic deep interior and the antarctic ocean (~0C) 12:59 < darsie> Too far apart. Cold air and cool water at the could could work, but that location is too unstable. 12:59 < darsie> at the coast* 12:59 < maaku> but it may be more reliable to pick an equatorial site with proper thermal insulation and do OTEC there 12:59 < darsie> otec? 12:59 < maaku> ocean thermal energy conversion 13:00 < maaku> https://www.makai.com/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion/ 13:00 < darsie> No, anything ocean is too unstable. 13:00 < darsie> It should be a facility running autonomously for 1000 years. 13:09 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:32 < lsneff> Speaking of brain preservation, I haven't seen anything about preserving the mapping between nerves in the body and output neurons in the brain stem. 13:34 < maaku> lsneff: whole body cryopreservation 13:35 < lsneff> What about for simulation? 13:48 -!- shmeebegek [6884015f@104.132.1.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17 < fltrz> is it conceivable that a virus can sense the size of its viral reservoir? 14:19 < fltrz> so this is a weird thought: given that viruses tend to turn *somewhat* benign or at least less malign as a viral reservoir continues hosting it, and assuming that a virus can sense the size of its reservoir, could it increase its mutation rate if it detects a decrease in the size of its viral reservoir? 14:20 < fltrz> what if viruses perform the role of preserving species during large population decreases? 14:20 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20 < fltrz> by jumping to its predators / competing species? 14:21 < fltrz> it seems in the interest of both itself (both jump ship, and preserve old ship), as in the interest of its host (preserve ship, decrease predator/competition population) 14:23 < fltrz> perhaps pandemics serve the function of diversity in ecosystems? 14:25 < fltrz> why do we consider hosting oligodynamic poison a valid strategy for the phytomining plants, but hosting biological organism as a poison not a valid strategy? 14:28 < fltrz> observe how a cat likes to catch the mouse, let it go, catch it again... 14:28 < fltrz> there is the obvious hunting exercise part 14:30 < darsie> Only 9 ppl watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y524FbBaVHM 14:30 < fltrz> but perhaps part of this behavior is to sometimes let the mouse accidentally fully escape, after contaminating it with your disease... this seems stupid because you don't want your food source to shrink due to an outbreak,... but if the virus is already hosted by both cat and mouse reservoirs, then this could update the mouse viral reservoir with a new version, contaminating competition 14:30 < darsie> Robert McIntyre on Cryopreservation at the 1517 Social 14:31 < darsie> Ahh, no, 663 views, 9 likes. 14:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:14 -!- TC [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:14 -!- TC is now known as Guest60371 15:18 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:29 -!- yashgaroth_ [~ffffffff@172.58.19.169] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:31 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58 < lsneff> I had a conversation today with some of my friends about life extension. I don't think I'll ever understand why everyone is so viscerally against it. 19:38 -!- lsneff[m] [lsneffmozi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ctxykbfyyhsmgqik] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:30 < heath> .title https://twitter.com/Dr_Alex_Crimi/status/1234530460098756610 20:30 < saxo> Alessandro Crimi sur Twitter : 'I recently discovered .@syGlassVR #VR for scientific # microscopy https://t.co/NhsgeIWXn0 this is a video of cleared tissue of a mouse #brain 🧠 easily navigable with #HTC Futuristic #neuroscience 🔬🔬🔬🔬🩺🩺🩺… https://t.co/RNs5rgfTnj' 20:30 < heath> or .tw 20:49 -!- yashgaroth_ [~ffffffff@172.58.19.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53 < maaku> lsneff: denial 21:35 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:50 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:20 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:13 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] --- Log closed Tue Mar 03 00:00:11 2020