--- Log opened Sun Mar 08 00:00:16 2020 00:09 < maaku> kanzure: base64 00:09 < maaku> >>> codecs.decode(b"MjAwOS42Mi4zMiwyMDIwLTAzLTA5LDRTOTU5NTAyQk40NTA1MjVZLGthbnp1cmVAZ21haWwuY29tLGYxYjlkY2RkNjM1OWY3MDIzODA2ZjZmYTc1MWFlOGY5", "base64") 00:09 < maaku> b'2009.62.32,2020-03-09,4S959502BN450525Y,kanzure@gmail.com,f1b9dcdd6359f7023806f6fa751ae8f9' 00:10 < maaku> .py import codecs; codecs.decode(b"MjAwOS42Mi4zMiwyMDIwLTAzLTA5LDRTOTU5NTAyQk40NTA1MjVZLGthbnp1cmVAZ21haWwuY29tLGYxYjlkY2RkNjM1OWY3MDIzODA2ZjZmYTc1MWFlOGY5", "base64") 00:10 < saxo> (no output) 00:10 < maaku> .py import sys; print(sys.version) 00:10 < saxo> 3.5.2 (default, Jun 28 2016, 18:49:03) 00:11 < maaku> .py import codecs; print(codecs.decode(b"MjAwOS42Mi4zMiwyMDIwLTAzLTA5LDRTOTU5NTAyQk40NTA1MjVZLGthbnp1cmVAZ21haWwuY29tLGYxYjlkY2RkNjM1OWY3MDIzODA2ZjZmYTc1MWFlOGY5", "base64")) 00:11 < saxo> b'2009.62.32,2020-03-09,4S959502BN450525Y,kanzure@gmail.com,f1b9dcdd6359f7023806f6fa751ae8f9' 00:11 < maaku> there we go 00:56 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:04 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:27 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:30 < adlai> maaku: "So it's more about goal unification than a compound goal with distinct accomplishments. Does that make sense?" << yes, it does. I stand by my point that typos and their grammatical equivalent do not primarily hint at malicious intent, rather at the document in question being a draft :) 05:32 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-epvlgtpbmesplfls] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:13 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:03 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 07:26 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gcjbdfeujsbpqart] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:29 < kanzure> maaku: thank you 07:42 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-epvlgtpbmesplfls] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:46 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:3092:7169:2a22:9e8d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:42 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:3092:7169:2a22:9e8d] has quit [] 08:59 < lsneff> Have any of you read Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Charles Sheffield? 09:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 < superkuh> Yes. 09:27 < superkuh> In 2015, I'd have to refresh my memory (what I'm doing now). 10:47 < docl> .title https://foresight.org/the-weather-machine/ 10:47 < saxo> The weather machine - Foresight Institute 10:53 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fcrfslhhkqurqhss] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:24 < docl> JS Hall (utility fog guy) proposing reflective flat balloons as a way to control weather or concentrate power 11:26 < docl> setting up gigawatt scale power stations would be a lot smaller scale though. concentrated solar is already a thing, and balloon reflectors would use a lot less material per unit area. 11:27 < docl> could be refractive (fresnel lens approach) instead of reflector (mirrors) 11:29 < docl> can't get 24/7 power like a satellite reflector swarm can, but can do 12/7 without having to dynamically tilt panels or any other complex apparatus on the ground 12:14 < archels_> DEATH RAY 12:19 < kanzure> life ray 12:19 < kanzure> causes involuntary livelihood 12:20 < kanzure> a much more sinister weapon 12:22 < lsneff> for a more sinister age 13:13 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fcrfslhhkqurqhss] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:28 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/JMRothberg/status/1236289160253767681 13:28 < saxo> Thinking about a low cost easy to manufacture home test kit for #Coronavirus. Outline: #Nasal_swab (Q-tip) w/ freeze dried reagents for isothermal #DNA amplification with #COVID19 primers. Colorimetric readout by #iOS or #Android #App w/ #geolocation & #HIPPA compliant reporting. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESguakIWkAAInUv.jpg (@JMRothberg) 13:29 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/JMRothberg/status/1236314436534710272 13:29 < saxo> Still in tube 2, reverse transcribe the COVID-19 generic material into DNA. DNA is super stable and easy to amplify so we can detect it. Move swab to 3) and use an isothermal amplification method that doesn’t need a machine and produces a color change. Use camera to read color. (@JMRothberg, in reply to tw:1236313002783244288) 13:30 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vuxewujntspyqrvm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:31 < kanzure> rothberg is the 454/iontorrent person 13:43 < fenn> is that a cruise ship or a hotel or something? 13:45 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:49 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 < fenn> "This is just too painful. It takes an hour to run a #RTQPCR test, a simple test for #COVID19. I can run these tests on my boat. 14:03 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:04 < juri_> saxo: phone cameras are bad for science, unless you want to colour calabrate them at the same time you're using them. there are standard colour patterns one could ship with your kit. 14:07 < fenn> just have 2 tubes to compare 14:08 < fenn> saxo is a bot 14:09 < kanzure> ion torrent was a dna sequencing method and company 14:10 < kanzure> and not a crise ship. 14:10 < kanzure> oh 14:10 < kanzure> yeah that's probably his super yacht 14:11 < fenn> sad to say that's the lamest battlestation i've seen 14:12 < kanzure> $500 million dollars and he doesn't even have 12 monitors 14:12 < kanzure> pathetic. 14:17 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:35 < jrayhawk> embarassing, really 14:39 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymmceynmgzwmzbkd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:54 < nmz787> so it seems the only reason people might (logically) be concerned about the coronavirus vs i.e. flu... is that we don't know the long term affects of being previously infected 15:55 < nmz787> such as birth defects, such as in pregnant zika sufferers 15:55 < nmz787> or other weird mutations 15:57 < lsneff> There are many reasons to be concerned about it that don't include personal safety. 15:58 < nmz787> such as? 15:59 < nmz787> I mean, interest rates are at historic lows, pollution levels are down in manufacturing zones... 15:59 < fenn> not spreading it to others who are at risk 15:59 < nmz787> isn't that just you complaining about natural selection? 15:59 < fenn> sure. i'm against natural selection from a moral standpoint 16:00 < nmz787> too bad nature is amoral 16:01 < fenn> humans past child rearing age are pretty much useless to evolution 16:01 < nmz787> except they consume resources that those rearables could utilize 16:02 < nmz787> (alternatively, they produce social wealth, such as scientific or engineering advances) 16:02 < fenn> yeah i don't know how much either effect mattered in the evolutionary environment 16:04 < nmz787> well, presumably a lot... old scientists are probably working on things like vaccines, which impacts selection directly 16:04 < fenn> if you're talking about vaccines we're already several thousand years past what i mean by "the evolutionary environment" 16:08 < maaku> nmz787: the threat profiles for covid-19 vs seasonal flu are vastly different 16:08 < lsneff> Covid could essentially be a ddos for the healthcare system. 16:08 < lsneff> That could have serious consequences. 16:08 < maaku> and nmz787, your social darwinist views are pretty repugnant 16:10 < nmz787> .wik social darwinism 16:10 < saxo> "Social Darwinism is any of various theories of society which emerged in the United Kingdom, North America, and Western Europe in the 1870s, claiming to apply biological concepts of natural selection and survival of the fittest to sociology and politics." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_darwinism 16:10 < nmz787> how is a virus sociological or political? 16:11 < nmz787> lsneff: well yeah, but isn't that just due to mass hysteria? 16:12 < nmz787> maaku: example of differing threat profile? I've only seen the R0 compared 16:12 < lsneff> No, it's because 20% of all cases need hospitalization. 16:14 < lsneff> And I agree with maaku, these views have no place in modern society. 16:14 < nmz787> views? 16:14 < nmz787> what views? 16:15 < nmz787> I am asking for articulation of concerns, vs people just being xenophobic because it's new and from China 16:15 < nmz787> (and from bats) 16:15 < maaku> nmz787: 10-20% of cases require hospitalization, often ventiliation. 16:16 < fenn> .tw https://twitter.com/sethbannon/status/1236125593290276864 16:16 < saxo> American Hospital Association "Best Guess Epidemiology" for #codiv19 over next 2 months: // 96,000,000 infections / 4,800,000 hospitalizations / 1,900,000 ICU admissions / 480,000 deaths // vs flu in 2019: // 35,500,000 infections / 490,600 hospitalizations / 49,000 ICU admissions / 34,200 deaths https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESeXl_mWsAIlsDq.jpg (@sethbannon) 16:16 < maaku> if those beds & machines are occupied, than further infections and everyday risks (e.g. severe allergic reactions) become fatal 16:17 < kanzure> i feel like i'm in one of those SAT word problems: "what exactly is maaku objecting to? (a) nmz787's questions about corona (b) nmz787's views about ...." 16:17 < jrayhawk> i am not up to steving this today, you're on your own 16:17 < fenn> (c) views maaku has imputed to nmz787 16:18 < nmz787> fenn: thanks, that's useful 16:18 < maaku> not spreading it to others who are at risk 16:18 < maaku> isn't that just you complaining about natural selection? 16:18 < maaku> sure. i'm against natural selection from a moral standpoint 16:18 < maaku> too bad nature is amoral 16:18 < nmz787> well, you can't really argue with (bio)physics 16:19 < maaku> but philosophy is off-topic so I tried to move back to the facts 16:19 < kanzure> i forget if nmz787 is a deathist 16:19 < nmz787> I mean, we've been fighting for all of written history... but it's a fight for sure 16:19 < nmz787> how is physics and entropy philosophy? 16:20 < nmz787> .wik deathist 16:20 < fenn> if you're making a policy, you can decide whether the policy is to make an expensive intervention or not. if you just throw up your hands and say "well nature did it" you're actually taking a position 16:20 < saxo> "The following deaths of notable individuals occurred in 2020. Names are reported under the date of death, in alphabetical order by surname or pseudonym. / A typical entry reports information in the following sequence: / Name, age, country of citizenship at birth, [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_deaths 16:20 < nmz787> fenn: well I'm not in a policy making position any more than any other voter, outside of the domain of my household 16:21 < maaku> the quote from fenn was "i'm against natural selection from a moral standpoint" that's a statement of physics not philosophy 16:21 < fenn> eh? 16:21 < maaku> let's not get off-topic for this channel. take it somewhere else 16:21 < nmz787> maaku: seems morals is not physics, it's closer to philosophy 16:22 < nmz787> how is virus discussion and why the hysteria is/isn't meaningful offtopic for humanity-plus topic discussion channel? 16:22 < nmz787> it's certainly more on-topic than cryptocurrency 16:22 < kanzure> y'all are talking past each other. 16:22 < maaku> jeeze I think we're all saying the same thing for once. fenn & nmz787 had a disagreement about morals. I made one statement coming down hard on fenn's side, then thought better of it (channel topic!) and switched gears 16:23 < kanzure> i would like to have some sort of policy around prepping and hysteria for this channel, though 16:23 < maaku> to whit, there is legitimate concern over covid-19 because unlike the flu, vastly more cases require hospitalization 16:23 < kanzure> for example, we definitely did not want to tolerate eleitl's obsession with r/collapse 16:23 < maaku> that's a real infrastructure issue 16:24 < kanzure> but vaccine development, DIY testing, and other technical initiatives are somewhat interesting 16:24 < nmz787> maaku: I didn't know about the more hospitalization until you and fenn answered 16:25 < maaku> ah ok 16:25 < nmz787> I've legit just been assuming it's "something new and unknown, thus AGHHHHH" 16:25 < maaku> (also, reading scrollback I did mean "that's a statement of philsophy not physics" oops) 16:25 < fenn> right 16:26 < nmz787> the last numbers I read were a few weeks back, when it still seemed like flu was wayyy deadlier per year 16:26 < maaku> nmz787: that's mostly true. people shouldn't be freaking out, unless their in a public health capacity and its their job. 16:26 < kanzure> good job insulating yourself, i should take some notes about that because the rest of the internet is hysteric 16:26 < maaku> still shouldn't be panicking though. just calmly make adequate preparations 16:26 < nmz787> I have an ER doctor friend in Houston... 16:26 < lsneff> kanzure: you should write up some specific rules concerning this. 16:27 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah hysteric but without numbers just seems like B.S. to me tho, and thus I've ignored it 16:28 < fenn> there are lots of numbers though. too many different numbers, and not enough actual data to draw meaningful conclusions yet 16:28 < maaku> nmz787: basically the defining symptom of covid-19 is severe shortness of breath, to the point where left unattended you suffocate yourself 16:28 < nmz787> fenn: well that tweet seemed pretty straightforward 16:28 < kanzure> nmz787: yes but where did those numbers come from. and how. etc. 16:28 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:29 < maaku> healthy young people have enough strength to power through. people with cardiovascular preconditions or mere age need ventricular machines 16:29 < nmz787> yeah, pretty much only read up on kids getting it in the last few days 16:29 < nmz787> since my mom was thinking of flying to visit for a month in April 16:29 < nmz787> but I think we'll skip that trip for now 16:29 < fenn> see that's what i meant as an example of an expensive intervention 16:30 < nmz787> her husband is on immunosuppresants already, and is quitting his job (well going to part-time as a delivery driver only) 16:31 < fenn> gotta deliver grocery packages to all those people in quarantine 16:31 < nmz787> but he was planning to quit in August anyway when he turned 70, so quitting (partially) now isn't that big of a jump 16:31 < nmz787> car parts actually 16:31 < fenn> i didn't even realize you could get car parts delivered 16:31 < nmz787> I think it's more store to store 16:32 < nmz787> or warehouse to store 16:32 < maaku> .title https://www.propublica.org/article/i-lived-through-sars-and-reported-on-ebola-these-are-the-questions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus 16:32 < saxo> I Lived Through SARS and Reported on Ebola. These Are the Questions We Should Be Asking About Coronavirus. — ProPublica 16:32 < nmz787> mayyybe store to auto shop 16:32 < maaku> one of the more sensible articles I've read recently 16:36 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnsgpcxlcjvkhwqi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:44 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:49 < kanzure> who would be a good person to appear on podcasts to talk about a DIY vaccine project? 16:53 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03 < fenn> like, a paid spokesperson? huh? 17:03 < fenn> andrew hessel has that charming stage presence that's all the rage 17:06 < kanzure> he doesn't want to do it, he thinks the idea is stupid and harmful 17:07 < kanzure> unpaid; just need someone who is willing to take the liability in exchange for some of the fame. 17:07 < kanzure> journalists are already crawling all over it 17:09 < fenn> i don't even know who's active in diybio anymore 17:11 < kanzure> well the resident crazy is josiah but he is a clown or intentionally torpedoes biohacking 17:12 < fenn> after his interrogation by the government i doubt he'd be interested 17:12 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:13 < fenn> he can't be doing diy vaccines on the one hand, and running a business selling "definitely not practicing medicine without a license" kits 17:14 < kanzure> right.. right.. 17:15 < kanzure> lsneff: sooo how are you with public speaking? 17:18 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:18 < lsneff> kanzure: Haha, not terrible. I did a talk about that os I wrote. 17:18 < lsneff> Why do you ask? 17:18 < kanzure> lsneff: need a face guy for a corona vaccine willing to talk on podcasts and whatever 17:19 < kanzure> https://xkcd.com/2276/ 17:27 < lsneff> I'm not sure why I'm an option, really. I don't exactly have any credibility outside of niche software circles. 17:27 < kanzure> willingness is the primary criteria at the moment. and you have to be able to read technical information and succinctly summarize it to know-nothings. 17:30 < maaku> it's not credibility they're looking for but a talking head 17:34 < kanzure> i mean, you need to not say wrong things, but yeah 17:37 < lsneff> It's an interesting idea. 17:37 < lsneff> It'd be quite risky for me. 17:37 < nmz787> if I had better looking hair, I might be up for it 17:38 < fenn> there's an app for that 17:43 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vuxewujntspyqrvm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:44 < lsneff> kanzure: You don't want to do it? 17:46 < lsneff> Honestly, I'm open to it. 17:47 < lsneff> I'm a little worried that I could screw up, but otherwise, it sounds fun. 17:51 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:55 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 18:02 < fenn> ok this is definitely some weird irritating next-level shit but it's possibly on topic http://twitch.tv/thesushidragon 18:11 < lsneff> The effects on that stream gave me supercovid 19:14 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:18 -!- Guest22901 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40 < kanzure> hm 20:11 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:42 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fxnawqelvlxkhkea] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:56 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:03 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:20 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnsgpcxlcjvkhwqi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:58 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymmceynmgzwmzbkd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] --- Log closed Mon Mar 09 00:00:17 2020