--- Log opened Tue Mar 17 00:00:24 2020 00:07 < maaku> fenn: but if the stock market goes down $1Tn, that doesn't mean $1Tn changed hands 00:08 < fenn> right 00:09 < fenn> i just skimmed a list of traditional chinese medicine herbs that supposedly help with coronavirus, and spotted one i knew quite a bit about already, cordyceps 00:09 < maaku> Apple stock is currently worth $242.21 with a market cap of $1.06Tn. If I sell you 1 share for $200, and that's the new market price, then $184bn "disappeared" 00:09 < maaku> but only $200 changed hands 00:10 < maaku> That's an extreme version of what happens when liquidity vanishes in a recession. 00:10 < fenn> cordycepin is a modified form of adenosine that prematurely terminates mRNA chain synthesis by lacking an attachment point to grow the chain, and it's claimed to slow the growth of RNA viruses 00:10 < fenn> makes sense to me 00:10 < maaku> fenn: any serious medical studies on that? chinese traditional medecine is pseudoscience 00:10 < maaku> (but a broken clock is right twice a day) 00:11 < fenn> cordyceps is actually not all that expensive anymore, after various companies in the US developed ways to grow it on rice in big vats vs hand picking dead caterpillars in tibet 00:11 < fenn> dunno i just thought of it 00:11 < fenn> cordyceps absolutely does something. it feels like a stimulant that makes you breathe deep 00:12 < fenn> can cause anxiety 00:15 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31 < fenn> i'm seeing some studies about influenza but they're paywalled and sci-hub not working in these specific instances 00:32 < fenn> .title http://pub.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0721287 00:32 < saxo> URLError: (title:74) 00:32 < fenn> .title http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0721287 00:33 < fenn> saxo! 00:33 < saxo> fenn! 00:34 < fenn> "An acidic polysaccharide (APS) was isolated from the extract of Cordyceps militaris grown on germinated soybeans. ... When the polysaccharide was intranasally administered, it decreased virus titers in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid and the lung of mice infected with influenza A virus and increased survival rate." and affected the levels of a whole slew of immune-modulating molecules 00:35 < fenn> .title http://cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/20113042483 00:35 < saxo> CAB Direct 00:37 < juri_> fenn: any idea who reads that google doc? 00:37 < fenn> this new fucking internet, i swear to god if i ever get a chance to go back in time i'm murdering brendan eich 00:37 < fenn> juri_: presumably hospitals who are running out of plastic medical components 00:37 < fenn> that seems to be the intent anyway 00:38 < fenn> i have no idea where it is being promoted originally 00:38 < juri_> welp, i'll just wait to be contacted, then. 00:40 < fenn> make sure your scripts to do high quantity production actually work 00:41 < maaku> fenn: write a better js-less browser 00:41 < fenn> now is probably a good time to contact an individual at a local hospital and let them know you can help 00:42 < fenn> and link to the google doc 00:43 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:44 < juri_> fenn: how do i link to the doc itsself? 00:45 < juri_> (you just gave me a link to the form that places input into the document) 00:45 < fenn> the previous research paper on cabdirect, "Antiviral activity of Cordyceps guangdongensis against influenza virus infections in mice. H9N2 treated at a dose level of 0.25g/kg (that's a ludricously huge amount) had a significant antiviral effect (P<0.05) and inhibited the pulmonary index by 22%" higher doses were less effective 00:45 < fenn> oh sorry i thought the form linked to the doc 00:45 < fenn> and stupid google urls are so long i can't just type it in 00:46 < fenn> .g "3D printer crowdsourcing for COVID-19 (Responses)" 00:46 < saxo> Nae result, g'soz 00:46 < fenn> wrong 00:47 < fenn> .title https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QE1vzezYdf6QJwxaMMLrWIks5AYAPUeSRWXxaYd3yK8/edit?usp=sharing 00:47 < saxo> 3D Printer Crowdsourcing for COVID-19 (Responses) - Google Sheets 00:47 -!- Guest37900 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:56 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:57 < fenn> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22796203 00:57 < saxo> Protective roles of Cordyceps on lung fibrosis in cellular and rat models. - PubMed - NCBI 00:58 < nmz787> TMA: oh, if you're using lakh, then I guess you're indian or been living in india for a while ? 00:59 < nmz787> I've never known that to be anything but an indian term 00:59 < fenn> .cz i think 01:03 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:11 < archels_> trying to find out whether aspirin is counterindicated in COVID-19 due to ACE receptor interaction 01:12 < fenn> juri_: https://medium.com/@brucefenton/we-need-ventilators-we-need-you-to-help-build-them-30805e5ee2ea 01:12 < fenn> aspirin and other NSAIDs reduce fever, which is good in some circumstances and bad in others. fever helps ramp up yer immune system 01:13 < fenn> too much fever will kill you or cook your brain 01:13 < maaku> fenn: the context is the french government is claiming that NSAIDs provoke a severe covid-19 response 01:13 < maaku> and afaik there's no data to back that up, hence controversy 01:14 < archels_> ^ 01:14 < nmz787> personally I don't advocate NSAIDS for any family of mine 01:14 < maaku> nmz787: sure, but if you gotta bring down a fever... 01:15 < nmz787> ice and cold compresses are easily available for fever, though I've given a single dose of tylenol once each time my son's had a fever (twice ever) 01:15 < maaku> that's literally the only time I'd use them though 01:15 < nmz787> yeah, for fever it works, if you're about to boil your brains 01:15 < maaku> ah, yeah for boys especially that's true. I've got girls 01:15 < fenn> tylenol is not an NSAID 01:16 < archels_> any particular reason you advise against NSAIDs? (in peace or in wartime) 01:16 < nmz787> but it seems "pill culture" drives most of the NSAID craze 01:16 < fenn> also tylenol is super dangerous and it should only be administered under medical supervision imho 01:16 < nmz787> archels_: mostly just because inflammation *is* your immune response, and unless it's doing something autoimmune, I don't think I'm going to be more helpful than it will be 01:16 < maaku> fenn: many reasons, but here's one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5044981/ 01:17 < maaku> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5044981/ 01:17 < fenn> .title 01:17 < saxo> Prolonged exposure to acetaminophen reduces testosterone production by the human fetal testis in a xenograft model 01:17 < saxo> Prolonged exposure to acetaminophen reduces testosterone production by the human fetal testis in a xenograft model 01:17 < fenn> huh 01:17 < fenn> i meant liver damage 01:17 < archels_> fair enough, but sometimes it seems to do more harm than good 01:17 < archels_> such as loss of sleep 01:17 < nmz787> meh, fuck sleep 01:17 < fenn> no pills, no sleep, what do you do 01:17 < nmz787> if I wanna sleep and I'm sick, I'll drink some alcohol 01:18 < archels_> was mostly wondering if you had any reasons for aspirin specifically (compared to e.g. paracetamol) 01:18 < maaku> increased risk of stroke, for one 01:18 < nmz787> I won't take aspirin anymore, it seems to affect my blood too much 01:19 < nmz787> (or perhaps, the last few times I took it I just happened to have really dry sinuses, and it was pure coincidence that I had a nosebleed that was hard to stop) 01:20 < archels_> I'm aware of some mild adverse effects of long-term aspirin consumption on hearing 01:21 < fenn> long-term it causes lots of problems 01:21 < fenn> so don't do that 01:21 < nmz787> my dad pops a baby aspirin daily, I think 01:22 < nmz787> he did have a heart attack though, and some sort of vein/artery replacement surgery... so idk 01:44 < TMA> nmz787: no. neither British neither Indian neither affiliated there. I am just eclectic and pick words that I fancy. lakh is useful as is crore, I am still missing a word for 1e8. 1e4 is a myriad (of greek origin) [I am a Czech (that's in EU, not Chechnya which is on Caucasus in Russia)] 01:46 < TMA> fenn: also, when stocks are bought on margin (i.e. with borrowed money), repaying the debt destroys the money 01:47 < TMA> fenn: you put $1000 into a bank as a deposit. then someone else borrows $900, buys something and the seller deposits the $900 into a bank 01:49 < TMA> fenn: now the amount of money in existence is $1900, although the amount of cash is still $1000 01:50 < TMA> repaying the debt destroys the money created out of thin air 02:01 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20 < fenn> yes, well, creating dollars out of thin air is the reason there's not conservation of dollars 02:21 < fenn> banks are allowed to have something ridiculous like 10x leverage 02:22 < fenn> we've just been legally ordered to stay at home, here in the san francisco bay area 02:22 < fenn> (the whole bay area) 02:23 < fenn> .title https://xkcd.com/2276/ 02:23 < saxo> xkcd: Self-Isolate 02:34 < fenn> in japanese 10^8 is 億 - pronounced "oku" 02:34 < fenn> and they actually use it in common language 02:35 < nmz787> annnnnd then we have https://nypost.com/2020/03/16/woman-licks-plane-toilet-seat-for-coronavirus-challenge/ 02:35 < nmz787> fenn: is that because it costs 11 oku to buy milk or something? 02:36 < fenn> lol no it has something to do with very large numbers in buddhism 02:36 < nmz787> like when I went to colombia and exchanged something like a few hundred dollars and was suddenly in possesion of something like 100s of 1000s of their currency 02:37 < fenn> 1 yen is about 1 cent 02:37 < fenn> so 1億 yen is about a million dollars 02:41 < nmz787> ""The [San Francisco] order tells people to work from home unless they provide essential services such as public safety, sanitation and medical services. Pharmacies and banks will remain open. Restaurants will be open only for take-out"" 02:42 < nmz787> for 3 weeks 02:42 < nmz787> people living paycheck to paycheck in "non essential" jobs are possibly screwed 02:43 < fenn> the actual wording is sort of lacking in rigor. like you're still allowed to go outside "just to get out" 02:43 < fenn> it literally says that in the berkeley order 02:45 < fenn> hm nevermind that was in the FAQ, and it seems to be incorrect 02:46 < nmz787> on other unrelated topics: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2018/ph240/noland1/ 02:46 < nmz787> .title 02:46 < saxo> A Solution to Normative Biofuel Issues: Duckweed 02:46 < nmz787> "duckweed is known as one of the fastest growing plants and can effectively double biomass every twenty hours (when under appropriate environmental conditions.)" 02:47 < fenn> never turn your back on duckweed 02:48 < fenn> can they grow it in greenhouses 02:48 < fenn> water seems to be the limiting reagent 02:48 < nmz787> I can imagine a fine mesh chain conveyor belt dipped into a pond, with some sort of mass or camera feedback to know when to stop harvesting 02:49 < nmz787> basically from what I've read, the big idea is to just dry and burn it 02:49 < fenn> it would need a lot of sensors to keep everything in top condition 02:49 < fenn> thermal depolymerization is cool 02:49 < nmz787> well, if it doubles in a day... I'd think a camera to just roughly calculate when your conveyor has pulled half of the pond out, might be OK 02:50 < nmz787> at least for a DIY offgrid situation 02:50 < nmz787> I'd only heard of duckweed as a scourge on waterways before 02:50 < nmz787> so it must be pretty hardy 02:50 < fenn> you want to be utilizing the whole pond, so the conveyor should extract at a constant rate 02:51 < nmz787> might not make sense for the energy cost of driving the motor and sensors tho 02:52 < nmz787> it would be fun to experiment with on something like 1/4 or 1/5 acre pond 02:52 < fenn> knock yourself out 02:52 < fenn> what eats duckweed 02:53 < nmz787> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24985498 02:53 < nmz787> fenn: ducks 02:53 < fenn> koi maybe 02:54 < nmz787> "The researchers used a new DNA sequencing approach to study the genome of Spirodela polyrhiza, one of 37 species of the fast-growing aquatic plant duckweed. They discovered how the immune system of the duckweed species adapts to a polluted environment in a way that differs from land plants." 02:55 < nmz787> https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/18893.short?rss=1 02:55 < nmz787> .title 02:55 < saxo> Plant evolution and environmental adaptation unveiled by long-read whole-genome sequencing of Spirodela | PNAS 02:56 < fenn> Dried Lemna is used as cattle feed having up to 45% protein, 4% fat. Unfortunately, from the human point of view, it is also high in calcium oxalate. 02:57 < fenn> Wolffia is 20% protein (more than soybeans) 44% carbohydrates, 5% fat has vitamins C, A, B6, and Niacin. 02:58 < fenn> the calcium oxalate content of Lemna minor depends greatly on the calcium content of the water on which they are growing 02:58 < nmz787> none of that matters much if you're just burning this though 02:58 < fenn> why would you burn food :O 02:58 < nmz787> bio-fuel 02:58 < fenn> that's silly 02:58 < nmz787> trees are a food... for termites and fungus 02:58 < fenn> burning trees is also silly 02:59 < nmz787> well, idk, it works 02:59 < fenn> it's a major contributor to deforestation in the US. stupid germans importing wood to burn in their "carbon free" power plants 02:59 < nmz787> this guy at a property i visited a few weeks ago said his whole years heating supply was two cargo trailers of wood 03:00 < fenn> for home heating in rural settings it makes sense 03:00 < nmz787> and my aunt had 16 acres and never bought wood for their wood furnace, they just harvested downed trees or maybe did occaisional thinning 03:01 < nmz787> therefore I can see something faster growing as being a reasonable offgrid solution to electricity production as well 03:02 < fenn> i suppose it depends on how well the drying step works, and how much water you lose to that, and how available water is in the area 03:03 < nmz787> yeah, the place I looked at a few weeks ago had a year-round creek 03:03 < nmz787> sooo, seems like no biggie there 03:03 < nmz787> possibly you could do water recovery in a less wet environment 03:04 < nmz787> like, some sort of greenhouse water catcher thing 03:10 < fenn> https://www.carolina.com/aquatic-plants/duckweed-living-unit-of-100-150/161820.pr 03:18 < fenn> target for genetic engineering? 03:19 < nmz787> hrmm, now I'm interested in knowing how to figure out if UPS/FedEx/USPS will delivery to any given location... or like, a map of where Amazon Prime services, etc. 03:19 < nmz787> like, it would suck to move somewhere that you couldn't get a delivery truck to come to 03:20 < fenn> amazon delivers to stores 03:20 < fenn> whole foods, seven eleven, etc 03:21 < nmz787> "Sometimes this product arrives with tiny bonus snails. I like the snails, but others may not." 03:21 < fenn> too bad US commercial drone policy is fucked 03:21 < fenn> no snails please 03:21 < nmz787> well the few properties I've been considering recently are like 30 mins from the nearest stores, driving 03:22 < fenn> rural delivery is usually like a big pile of mailboxes as the nearest intersection of county roads 03:23 < fenn> you may need to be properly zoned to get a mailbox 04:03 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:90fa:bd9f:718c:866b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:07 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:07 < kanzure> .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.20031096v1 06:07 < saxo> Sorry, title took too long 06:11 < kanzure> "Relationship between the ABO Blood Group and the COVID-19 Susceptibility" 06:15 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:36 < kanzure> https://www.etsy.com/listing/773164860/nuclear-explosion-bomb-diorama-model 06:56 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.249] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:00 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- Pompolic_ is now known as pompolic 07:43 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-czteyyrinftssavk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:15 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:90fa:bd9f:718c:866b] has quit [] 10:59 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:02 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:09 < kanzure> https://dropbox.tech/infrastructure/rewriting-the-heart-of-our-sync-engine 11:22 < lsneff> It's cool that they rewrote it in rust. 11:22 < lsneff> The meme has become reality. 11:31 < kanzure> https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/avanti-financial-group-announces-leadership-team-301025169.html 11:31 < kanzure> https://avantibank.com/announcement-leadership-team/ 11:35 < fenn> gratz. you are now officially The Man 11:35 < nmz787> not sure how it's on topic tho 12:01 < kanzure> just letting y'all know i guess. it's not particularly on topic. bitcoin itself is only slightly on topic. 12:04 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nanotube 12:16 -!- nanotube [~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 < nmz787> that was rude of me, I should have said congrats first 12:23 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:26 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 12:43 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:e899:b041:3610:2bad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:10 < maaku> fenn: actually as of next week, banks are allowed to have infinite leverage. there is no longer a reserve requirement :( 13:12 < maaku> "Avanti's technology partner, Blockstream" :( 13:28 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:44 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:02 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:52 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:05 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:21 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:38 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:42 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:44 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:e899:b041:3610:2bad] has quit [] 16:44 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:39 -!- Jay_Dugger [~Whickety@47.185.202.217] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:54 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:07 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-czteyyrinftssavk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:26 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-suwsmheakkjlocsx] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:51 < kanzure> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200316/14584244111/softbank-owned-patent-troll-using-monkey-selfie-law-firm-sues-to-block-covid-19-testing-using-theranos-patents.shtml 20:51 < kanzure> https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/labrador-diagnostics-will-grant-royalty-free-licenses-for-covid-19-testing/ 21:11 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:50 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:33 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:46 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:48 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:19 -!- facefaceface [~faceface@unaffiliated/faceface] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Wed Mar 18 00:00:25 2020