--- Log opened Sat Mar 21 00:00:28 2020
--- Day changed Sat Mar 21 2020
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06:08 < fenn> the pomeranian with coronavirus died 2 days after testing negative? huh?
06:27 < fltrz> fenn, link?
06:56 < kanzure> .title https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.03296
06:56 < saxo> [2003.03296] Memory-Safety Challenge Considered Solved? An Empirical Study with All Rust CVEs
07:00 < fenn> fltrz: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3075650/first-dog-found-coronavirus-has-died-after
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07:18 < lsneff> I'm honestly starting to think we might have a total collapse after all.
07:19 < lsneff> The virus is one thing, but the economy is absolutely going to plummit.
07:19 < lsneff> >50% unemployment
07:19 < lsneff> *>
07:19 < lsneff> I'm quite worried
07:24 < mrdata> grocery store shelves were at half capacity today on opening
07:25 < mrdata> ontario has an excellent supply chain, but the US border is now closed
07:26 < mrdata> they only had one skid of toilet paper
07:26 < mrdata> as i left a guy was shouting 'i got the last one!'
07:27 < mrdata> my buddy who does uber deliveries said business is down
07:27 < lsneff> I think it'll probably emerge stronger and more compassionate, but it may be a rough couple of years.
07:28 < fltrz> if we ramp up UV-C LED production we can restart the economy
07:28 < lsneff> That's a lot of leds
07:28 < mrdata> fltrz, how many lumens for what length of time, to destroy pathogens?
07:29 < fltrz> lsneff, think of income tax a citizen pays each year, ... it's nothing to buy some LEDs if we can continue the economy
07:30 < fltrz> mrdata, it depends on a lot of factors, but the biological measure are the fluence doses for N log reductions (decimations)https://iuvanews.com/stories/pdf/archives/180301_UVSensitivityReview_full.pdf
07:31 < mrdata> ty
07:31 < lsneff> I mean, maybe it'll be a good thing in the end
07:31 < lsneff> Change for the better requires a catalyst
07:31 < fltrz> mrdata, it contains fluences in mJ/cm^2 for many pathogens including viruses
07:32 < fltrz> mrdata, I still haven't found an N log reduction fluence measurement for sars-cov-II yet, but one could just select a desired log reduction, and take the maximum value from these tables
07:32 < mrdata> other coronaviruses will be similar
07:32 < mrdata> so, common cold
07:33 < mrdata> they are not so robust, compratively
07:33 < mrdata> hantavirus is pretty robust i think
07:33 < fltrz> mrdata, to be honest I am not familiar with the tree of viruses, so I didn't immediately recognize if there was another coronavirus in those tables, but I did check that there was an RNA virus
07:35 < fltrz> mrdata, I also noticed a price rise for at least one UV-C LED on farnell
07:36 < mrdata> a friend asked me if they should be used in hand driers
07:36 < fltrz> mrdata, the UV-C LEDs?
07:36 < mrdata> i told him i thought the intensity required to be effective would also cause skin damage
07:36 < fltrz> mrdata, bad idea, its cataractorgenic and carcinogenic
07:36 < fltrz> yep
07:48 < fenn> .tw https://twitter.com/caitlinlong_/status/1240844492195807232
07:48 < saxo> I FRICKIN' LOVE BITCOINERS!!! Here's 1 of 3 open-source #HackThePandemic projects started by #bitcoin OGs, incl @OGBTC, @kanzure & @brucefenton. There must be others too--pls share in the thread. LOVE THE ENGINEERS who are solving real problems & will rule the world that emerges! https://twitter.com/3DGBIRE/status/1240590499137929218 (@CaitlinLong_)
07:49 < fenn> kanzure this mask is utter bullshit and serves primarily as an advertisement for Cu3D's pAtEnTeD fIlAmEnT, the actual mask does not work and it's sucking up huge amounts of attention that should be dedicated to something useful instead
07:49 < fenn> and they are out of filament so you could not even make it if you wanted to
07:53 < fenn> OGBTC's design with the big honkin square filter on the front looks better, but it still needs, you know, actual testing before being promoted to literally millions of terrified people and potentially causing them to get infected because it didn't work
07:54 < adlai> mrdata: pallet probably worth much more than the rolls anyway... drying the squares after disinfecting takes forever
07:56 < fenn> fltrz: why haven't you switched to small fluorescent UV-C tubes?
07:57 < fenn> li-ion batteries are ridiculously awesome and widespread
07:57 < mrdata> adlai, eh?
07:59 < adlai> mrdata, i understand the image you're trying to paint, but i'm not gonna call the plank assemblies from which toilet paper packets get sold a 'skid'
08:00 < adlai> my favorite uselessism for those is "raft", because they're made of wood, and lots of air, so they must float, right?
08:00 < fenn> the plastic ones do
08:02 * adlai hasn't heard of hanta for ... at least as long as it's been since first wondering what those things are called in english
08:03 < mrdata> adlai, the word 'skid' was used by the store manager who was addressing the line up of shoppers on opening today
08:04 < mrdata> so i'm not trying to paint anything
08:04 < mrdata> just reporting
08:04 < fenn> fltrz looks like you should shoot for 200 J/cm^2, although i don't think that's the right dimensionality on the units since you're moving a fluid through a volume
08:05 < fenn> is 4 log reduction enough?
08:06 < adlai> if it can skid, it's too floaty... also, i don't think you can recycle the broken plastic ones to make toilet paper
08:06 < fenn> i'd feel much more confident in a standard filter mask that has been disinfected and reused
08:06 < adlai> although it could be that my understanding of the sources of toilet paper is lacking.
08:07 < fenn> .title https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-masks-reuse.html
08:07 < saxo> coronavirus-masks-reuse
08:07 < fenn> no, saxo
08:07 < mrdata> well, no one here is yet talking about DIY TP
08:07 < adlai> fenn: saxo is just repeating the article's headline; isn't that how twitter works?
08:07 < fenn> nmz787 had a DIY "ass blaster" design - basically a kitchen sink sprayer
08:08 < fenn> adlai: what's twitter got to do with it
08:08 < fenn> saxo should have found this tag in the html and output it here: As Coronavirus Looms, a Hospital Begins Sterilizing Masks for Reuse - The New York Times specifically with this article? not much; although the .tw you linked earlier leaves the referent of "Here's" shrouded in a cloud of capsids^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmystery until your next message
08:09 < adlai> what is saxo executing, anyway?
08:10 < fenn> "here's"?
08:10 < fenn> ack i nuked my scrollback
08:11 < fenn> who am i
08:11 < fenn> what are you people doing in my house
08:11 < fenn> aaaaa
08:11 < adlai> and where is your scrollback?
08:12 < fenn> the shitty 3D printed "mask" "design" was apparently sponsored by either kanzure, brucefenton, or OGBTC. i'm guessing the latter
08:12 < fenn> i assume all bitcoin people know each other :P
08:12 < adlai> fenn: the tweet you linked is... a photo caption, that doesn't describe what is pictured, only ... why people got paid, although who knows whether they did
08:13 < adlai> .wik dunbar (unit)
08:13 < saxo> " / Dunbar's number is a suggested cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships—relationships in which an individual knows who each person is and how each person relates to every other person." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
08:13 < adlai> no, i don't want the number, ffs
08:14 < adlai> maybe the unit shouldn't have a name collision with its rounded-upwards-exponentiation into the dimension of people
08:14 < fenn> i've never heard of the unit "dunbar" and don't see any evidence that it exists
08:14 * adlai was going to say: "bitcoin is somewhere between two and three dunbars, way too many people to recognize reliably"
08:19 < adlai> it does now, unless you don't understand what is meant by "this bunch of people is sufficiently more numerous than one person asking the other 'who are you-singular' for there to be any hope of an entire answer delivered by one speaker"; that level's probably around two of this unit, i.e., much much closer to 22500 than 150, and comfortably distant from the millions
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08:20 < rianima> @search wylie
08:20 < adlai> there's a downright idiotic recursion in that wikipedia blurb, although it's probably got enough citations to not be worth an edit.
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08:29 < fenn> "the good news is that the Mass Department of Public Health has now started onboarding academic labs to help with the testing efforts. One such effort is being coordinated through the Broad Institute."
08:37 < kanzure> fenn: thanks for letting me know, tell me how to fix things
08:38 < kanzure> eg what should i tweet
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08:39 < adlai> "whas is saxo executing, anyway" should parse as "how do i send ~this~ saxo a pull request, without spamming the entire channel about it"
08:44 < fenn> kanzure i don't know how to do twitter
08:44 < fenn> in order for a tweet to reproduce it has to be just awful enough that half of the people love it and half of the people hate it, and they retweet it in order to signal which half they're in
08:45 < fenn> something something patents openwashing
08:45 < fenn> the important thing is that it doesn't work
08:46 < fenn> the recommended procedure to use a hair dryer to soften the mask will cause the filter puck to warp and then the threads won't engage
08:46 < fenn> however, the whole design is just bogus
08:47 < fenn> the puck is too small, it won't seal around the edges, there's not enough cross sectional area for air flow in the mask itself, and i'm pretty sure the mask itself is not airtight unless you coat it in something, thereby negating the special copper nano inflused filament
08:47 < fenn> its primary function is as a surface upon which to put the Cu3D logo
08:47 < fenn> which it does admirably
08:48 < fenn> but it's the wrong time for that
08:49 < fenn> i think 3D printed mask people should be focusing on a DIY PAPR instead
08:49 < fenn> "PAPR system uses a blower instead of lung power to draw air through the filter. This lets you breathe more naturally while feeling a constant airflow in your headtop while working in hot and humid environments"
08:50 < kanzure> it has been tweeted; the dark deed you requested has been done.
08:50 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1241391402338201606
08:50 < saxo> @CaitlinLong_ @OGBTC @brucefenton Some feedback- The recommended procedure to use a hair dryer to soften the mask will cause the filter puck to warp and the threads won't engage; puck is too small, it won't seal around the edges, not enough cross sectional area for air flow in the mask itself; not airtight. (@kanzure, in reply to tw:1240844492195807232)
08:50 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/OGBTC/status/1241391627782033409
08:51 < saxo> @kanzure @CaitlinLong_ @brucefenton I just noticed this myself. // Did you try the other variant? The FFp2 style? (@OGBTC, in reply to tw:1241391402338201606)
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08:53 < fenn> if people just need masks, you can make them out of vacuum cleaner bags or https://www.canvasetc.com/product/nonwoven-dust-cover-fabric/
08:57 < fenn> i suggest PAPR if you are in an actually hazardous environment (not walking down the street) because you can use a real HEPA filter which gets >99% of particles, much better than even the 95% masks that are used by healthcare professionals
08:57 < fenn> downside is it needs batteries
08:58 < fenn> but any hardware hacker these days has a drawer full of dead laptops to extract 18650's from
09:00 < fenn> those awful reusable shopping bags seem to be made of the same non-woven material
09:04 < kanzure> i don't understand why we need physical coins with a face value of $1 trillion https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1241381460558389250
09:09 < kanzure> https://www.mghfoundation.com/en/news/code-life-ventilator-challenge/
09:24 < adlai> why should a particle filter be airtight ?
09:25 < adlai> regardless of whether you dump or clean used masks, they shouldn't be on the face long enough for a clogged mask and a hyperventilating professional to have a bad time
09:29 < fenn> the filter material creates a restriction in the airflow. if there are gaps around the edges or seams the air will go through those gaps instead of the filter
09:29 < fenn> i don't know if you noticed but nurses are working 12 hour shifts without changing masks
09:29 < fenn> it's "not recommended"
09:44 * adlai saw some photos on the internet of people with bruising bordering on laceration from the mask edges ... not recommended at all
09:45 < fenn> i'm pretty sure people are just getting dumber during this crisis as time goes on
09:45 < fenn> chronic stress or something
09:46 < fenn> please let me know if i start sounding dumb
09:47 < adlai> your text reads just fine; my criticisms about airflow stem from the fact that airborne contagion other than ballistic is allegedly nonexistent; if this is a reasonable allegation, then these masks shouldn't be airtight.
09:48 < fenn> CDC is putting out a lot of BS
09:48 < adlai> WHO?
09:48 < fenn> i haven't looked
09:50 < fenn> if all you need is a face shield then why the controversy about masks
09:50 < fenn> obviously masks are needed
09:50 < fenn> masks filter out aerosols
09:51 < fenn> therefore, the medical establishment believes non-ballistic particles carry contagion
09:51 < fenn> er.. not controvery. complaints about shortages of masks
09:53 < fenn> bigger particles carry more viral load and also sink to the floor faster
09:54 < fenn> also bigger particles take longer to dry out
09:54 < fenn> drying seems to have a destructive effect, depending on ... things. like surface texture.
09:56 < adlai> so are the masks supposed to be worn by: [ ] probable cases [ ] suspected cases [ ] medical personnel [ ] anyone who wants to share voice peripherals e.g. microphone, standing-closest-to-bulletproof-glass-of-ticket-counter, [ ] __your__reason__here___
09:56 < fenn> what masks
09:56 < adlai> checking all the boxes is equivalent to checking none of the boxes
09:56 < fenn> which*
09:58 < adlai> for starters, the masks that are supposedly improvisable using the contents of Lesotho without sending a container ship of toilet paper pallets to the nearest port
09:59 < fenn> i don't think the toilet paper would help all that much
09:59 < adlai> the joke about toilet paper masks is intentionally stupid, because any scenario where the mask would be most helpful, would probably involve a sufficient distortion that the only remaining function of the paper would be, "in case you didn't notice, you have a billion barns of sars"
09:59 < fenn> in that case, the medical personnel probably don't have anything better. i don't know much about lesotho really.
10:00 < adlai> "a billion barns of sars" is probably a physical impossibility; how about a billion sars per barn.
10:00 < fenn> a barn full of sars?
10:00 < adlai> .wik barn cross section
10:00 < saxo> "A barn (symbol: b) is a non-SI metric unit of area equal to 10|−28| m|2| (or 100 fm|2|). Originally used in nuclear physics for expressing the cross sectional area of nuclei and nuclear reactions, today it is also used in all fields of high-energy physics to express the [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_%28unit%29
10:00 < fenn> yeah yeah i know
10:01 < fenn> card carrying metric zealot here
10:01 < adlai> yeah but now saxo knows, too!
10:02 < fenn> the card is 3"x5" because that A4 stuff gives me the willies
10:02 < adlai> probably the best one sentence of advice that i've encountered during this whole panic is that a simple mask should be worn if you are a probable case who has to go within ballistic range of improbable cases, and don't want to cough your probability into their face
10:03 < adlai> A4 cards are easier to fake! 3"x5" cards need special equipment to be milled precisely
10:04 < adlai> any kid can just fold a piece of paper, boom, A2.741232oops
10:04 < fltrz> fenn the mJ/cm^2 is just the total UV-C dose from the perspective of the the pathogen
10:04 < fenn> what does the area refer to
10:04 < fltrz> fenn, its just energy per area
10:04 < fltrz> like it rained X mm per day
10:05 < fenn> ok you have a tube with air flowing through it. there are several things corresponding to cm^2 that one could refer to. which one is it?
10:05 < fltrz> fenn, the reason I'm not using fluorescent UV-C tubes is because they produce some ozone
10:06 < fenn> oh, right
10:07 < fltrz> fenn, its just irradiance integrated over time
10:08 < fenn> .wik irradiance
10:08 < saxo> "In radiometry, irradiance is the radiant flux (power) received by a surface per unit area. The SI unit of irradiance is the watt per square metre (W·m|-2|)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irradiance
10:08 < fenn> what's the surface
10:08 < fltrz> so the 200J/cm^2 could be 10 seconds in irradiance of 20W/cm^2 or 100 seconds in 2W/cm^2
10:08 < fenn> is it the surface area of the pathogen?
10:08 < fltrz> fenn, no
10:08 < fenn> is it the surface area of the tube walls?
10:08 < fenn> is it the cross sectional area of the tube?
10:08 < fltrz> its the density of photons per second per area
10:08 < fltrz> fenn, no
10:09 < adlai> fltrz, s/dose from the perspective of the pathogen/$0 density/
10:09 < fltrz> fenn, where you live, how do they express rainfall?
10:09 < fenn> it would seem to depend on the direction of the photons and the angle of the hypothetical plane you use to measure
10:10 < fltrz> fenn, the pathogens absorb like 0.2% of radiation, so light just passes through, orientation of a longish pathogen doesnt really matter
10:11 < fltrz> fenn, its the total for all directions
10:11 < fenn> say you have a perfectly collimated laser beam, and measure the number of photons passing through a plane that is exactly parallel to the beam, and is inside the beam
10:11 < fenn> how many photons do you measure? i'd think zero
10:11 < fltrz> i.e. if you have 2 beams of light one beam has irradiance 10W/cm^2, and other is orthogonal to it and 20W/cm^2, then in the overlapping region of 2 beams its 30W/cm^2
10:12 < fenn> so it's isotropic flux onto a spherical surface
10:13 < adlai> unless you're shooting photons one by one onto a viral monolayer, the surface is flat.
10:13 < fltrz> fenn imagine a spherical ball with cross section area A, then its the energy of all the photons that pass through the ball, now take the limit of energy / cross section for radius approaching 0
10:13 < fenn> ok
10:15 < fltrz> in context of UV-C disinfection, the wavelengths is assumed "UV-C", otherwise it would be one of the many other optical quantities
10:15 < fltrz> (dependent on waveelength)
10:24 < fltrz> btw, I predict that many (unsure how many) nations will either block crypto protocols, or failing that, open internet, "EARN IT" style access to through government internet
10:24 < fltrz> because they are going to "print" loads of money, and after a while populations will notice inflation of the fiat currencies
10:25 < fltrz> and the same population will already have experienced the grave consequences of being a good citizen / late hoarder
10:26 < fltrz> it seems way too late to start decentralized mesh networks, windows sink across the street optical communication networks
10:30 < adlai> let's take that solidus literally: good citizen earns fractional gdp, late hoarder pays increased prices, now you can sum+normalize and you get an ethic quotient for each nationstate.
10:31 < fltrz> so chronologically: early hamsters, "dont hamster!", late hamsters, "STOP HAMSTERING", printing money, shortages, , people start noticing price inflations, people start switching to crypto / word of mouth, governments are forced to protect their currency by blocking crypto, either works on protocol filtering and targeted hacking of exchange bottlenecks etc, if that fails, internet only works for whitelisted protocols /
10:31 < fltrz> software / ..., if that is bypassed with steganography governments block internet alltogether
10:31 < adlai> if you are being paid by your nationstate, just use the orthogonal space so that less negative is more steep.
10:33 < fltrz> it really looks like this is the final showdown
10:36 < adlai> isn't part of the strength of a mesh topology that you're less hindered while your buddy fiddles with the antenna location, window aperture, etc?
10:36 < juri_> fltrz: I doubt that. EARN-IT is an oddity that seems to be going nowhere.
10:36 < fltrz> and all we have to do to prevent it is ramp up UV-C LED production, start rewarding this valuable sector (I have no vested interests), instead of propping up passenger travel companies, and keeping bars/restaurants/... alive... I mean sponsoring the survival of bars? I can imagine quite a lot of drunks actually dropping the habit, thankful that they didn't have to do it alone and the bulk of their friends are clean at the same time
10:36 < fltrz> why do we have to ensure the survival of bars so they can relapse to drunks afterwards again?
10:37 < fltrz> thats like sponsoring big tobacco if it turns out lots of smokers quit smoking out of coronavirus health concerns
10:38 < fltrz> juri_, to me EARN IT looks like the older rules against using encryption on say amateur radio
10:38 < adlai> so you're telling me that "every day we make it, we'll make it the best we can" is actually just about surviving as farmmouse instead of barmouse?
10:39 < fltrz> adlai, I dont understand the last question? could you paraphrase?
10:42 < fltrz> I'm not saying we should ban bars, just that we shouldn't inflate our currency to ensure the self-fulfilling prophecy of addiction afterwards
10:43 < fltrz> to be clear I like to get drunk... occasionally
10:43 < adlai> the quote is from a sealed bottle of amber-colored fluid, the cheapest bottled by its distillery, but it was probably sealed before the first covideath in hamburg so maybe i should keep it forever thus: "last bottle of whisky from before everything got germs"
10:43 < fltrz> not addicted to alcohol, but I see alcoholics... I am addicted to tobacco however
10:44 < fltrz> adlai, lol, ok that was a reference I couldn't fetch
10:44 < adlai> (fwiw, there is nothing more alcoholic than "don't open that bottle, i'm saving it for the next State of the Union speech")
10:45 < fltrz> adlai, I don't save any bottles at all, and never feel a need to drink at home
10:45 < adlai> have you disambiguated between behavioral addiction to tobacco, vs nicotine ?
10:45 < fltrz> adlai, not sure if I interpret correctly the question: physical addiction of nicotine vs the psychoogical addiction / habits of smoking?
10:46 < adlai> you wrote tobacco; nicotine is the chemical dependence, although people often attest to being behaviorally dependent rather than chemically
10:47 * adlai has also encountered the other claim, and the "i stop more often than Mark Twian"
10:47 < fltrz> I can clearly separate the two, the physical addiction is like 2 days or so, and after that its remarkably easier
10:48 < fltrz> I want to be able to occasionally smoke, as I am able with alcohol to occasionally drink
10:48 < adlai> how are your moietal senses doing after the worst days are past ?
10:48 < fltrz> I accept the hangover after drinking and it naturally prompts me to stay away from alcohol
10:49 < fltrz> adlai, what are moietal senses?
10:49 < adlai> moietal = smell and taste, rolled into one sense group, named thus since it doesn't quite identify molecules unambiguously
10:49 < fltrz> is it taste and smell? thats like after a week or two
10:50 < fltrz> I remember the first time I quit smoking, this amazing rediscovery of taste and smell
10:50 < adlai> there's something wonderful about that... almost worth quitting smoking rather than never having smoked at all !
10:50 < fltrz> adlai, secretly agree
10:51 < fltrz> did I tell you about my approach to try and treat nicotine like I treat alcohol?
10:52 < fltrz> with alcohol I am intuitively repulsed with hangover, and also having had drunk parents
10:53 < fltrz> but with smoking I dont feel a hangover... so my approach right before coronavirus pandemic was to quit smoking a few days for the hard part, and then start smoking again for a few days, and repeat this hard part of quitting smoking
10:53 < adlai> i do recall that this is not the first time i've read your description of being able to stop for long enough to have shifted perspective
10:54 < fltrz> so as to associate smoking with having to quit, I hope I will then 1) be acquainted with quitting and its feasibility 2) regard the painful quitting as just the smoking equivalent of hangover (my own fault "shouldn't have lit that third cigarette on that party")
10:54 < fltrz> this was working quite well
10:55 < adlai> cigs lessen your hangover ??
10:55 < fltrz> but now with coronavirus I decided to continue smoking because ex-smokers seemed to have higher mortality than smokers...
10:55 < fltrz> adlai, no cigs don't lessen hangover
10:56 < fltrz> adlai, I just want to mentally associate the punishing feeling of having to quit smoking as the smoking equivalent of having a hangover due to having drunk too much
10:56 < diginet> adlai: so how's it feel to have lost the presidency twice?
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10:57 < adlai> ah, important word there. i began wondering whether you drank less rapidly when you had ~that~ variety of psychoactives
10:58 < fltrz> fenn, if you want I can share my calculations for a specular reflecting "plenum" (box), with a UV-C LED, after I finally type it out
10:58 < adlai> diginet: loathe to time travel, unless i am unbound by namesake-reincarnation
10:58 < diginet> adlai: unfortunately I'm getting reports that you lose in all time lines
10:59 < diginet> it turns out that it *is* a rigid designator after all, fuck you kripke
11:00 < adlai> fltrz: now that is one nasty tangle of pharmacology and branding, and it makes me wonder about formal studies into maintaining nonzero BAC rather than tapering (as is done from benzodiazepines)
11:01 < fltrz> did you guys see the italian hospitals where they put bubbles over the patients head? they mentioned it hampered effective communication with the patient, doesn't seem too hard to put a microphone in the bubble
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11:01 < adlai> (allegedly, monks who forsake solid food during lent have offset the calorie loss by drinking beer, so it's not unheard of)
11:02 < fltrz> thats interesting
11:02 < adlai> save your microphones, just teach medical staff to read lips, speak by hand, and... ah crap.
11:03 < fltrz> oh, no need to think of situation specific device, just send bluetooth earpieces to the hospitals
11:04 < fltrz> what was I thinking for
11:04 < adlai> diginet, yeh revolving doors ain't what they used to be! be a civil servant, they said; make masks, not war, they said;
11:06 < adlai> ultimately it seems that the dude who spent his career competing and managing competitors, was good at winning competitions, even when he didn't have to wear stars and stripes
11:06 < diginet> weirdly, I did sketch a plot for a short story once that involved fucking with the UNIVAC that (correctly) predicted Eisenhower's win
11:06 < diginet> in a time travel scenario
11:06 < adlai> .wik return of william proxmire
11:06 < saxo> "'The Return of William Proxmire' is a short story by Larry Niven first published in 1989 in the anthology What Might Have Been? Volume 1: Alternate Empires, edited by Gregory Benford. / The short story was reprinted in Niven's collection N-Space, as well as the Robert A. [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_William_Proxmire
11:07 < adlai> what was the motive for bugging that computer?
11:08 < diginet> altering history, in the plot they needed to secure a Stevenson win. I dunno, it didn't make much sense. this was a long time ago
11:18 < adlai> for some reason, this conversation always stops short of the final question: "what is that name?" "... etc etc etc eventually dude lost to a retired general" "well then why didn't your parents name you CALIGULA????"
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11:26 < lsneff> Wish microsoft would just toss out the nt kernel and turn windows into a shell that runs on a linux kernel
11:28 < fenn> they did :(
11:30 < fenn> http://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows-10-linux-kernel-feature
11:31 < fenn> i don't suppose anyone knows someone working in the ethylene oxide gas sterilization industry
11:35 < fenn> some links re: making masks http://wiki.artisansasylum.com/index.php/COVID_masks
11:36 < lsneff> Well, WSL is one thing
11:36 < lsneff> But that's just a well-optimized linux vm at this point
11:46 < lsneff> They could port directx to linux, hire all the Wine people, and port the whole shell over
11:47 < lsneff> Would save them a lot of time and money in the long run
11:47 < adlai> http://wiki.artisansasylum.com/index.php/Shop_Safety_and_Etiquette#Basic_Shop_Rules -> "must always... must always... Hearing protection is *recommended*" i hear ya!
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12:01 < fenn> "the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask." bleh
12:01 < fenn> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic
12:04 < fenn> huh this is something i've never considered: "ALWAYS wear ear protection (earplugs or muffs) to prevent sparks from entering your ear canal. An eardrum punctured by a spark will instantly cauterize and never heal."
12:04 < fenn> sparks. in your ears.
12:05 < fenn> from http://wiki.artisansasylum.com/index.php/Basic_welding_safety_rules
12:06 < fltrz> fenn, its like those pictures of people staring down the barrel of their gun to troubleshoot why it won't fire... the welding equivalent is listening if you can perhaps hear the tiny spark if its there
12:12 * Urchin facepalms
12:12 < Urchin> I've never heard of that particular mode of f-ing up
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12:20 < adlai> after an eardrum is properly hosed, if you listen carefully enough, you can heard the tinnitus even from social distancing distance away
12:22 < adlai> staring down the barrel is a stupid cliche; the actual fuckup is thinking that if the gun went bang, the barrel can handle another
12:23 < adlai> also sticking your finger between the breech and spring-loaded locking mechanism, just to make sure there's nothing there
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12:23 < adlai> (naked finger in barrel is only useful when you lick it afterwards to show how clean the gun is)
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12:36 < TMA> kanzure: $1 trillion coins are a hack to circumvent some legal limit on government debt, because coin issuance is under separate law that permits minting at will without a limit
12:38 < TMA> burohackers in us. government machinery
12:40 < TMA> another historical burohacker was Charles I. of Englang which levied taxes without Parliament consent claiming the tax type was exempt from parliament meddling
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13:10 < kanzure> TMA: thanks
13:25 < adlai> .tw https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1241381460558389250
13:25 < saxo> OH. MY. GOD. https://tlaib.house.gov/sites/tlaib.house.gov/files/Automatic%20Boost%20to%20Communities%20Act%20.pdf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpF2lgWAAA0cf3.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpF2liWoAEgGab.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpF2lgWAAEiUA4.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpF2lpWoAc5yoQ.jpg (@TheStalwart)
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13:26 < adlai> it's almost as though the chirps expand to fill the bandtweetth
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13:34 < adlai> ... and instead of the context quoted by TMA, the latter chirps are each a clipping from the previous chirp! so instead of "fly on the wall at top kecret meeting of the mint", you get "this is the sound that the edge of a platinum coin makes when it hits your eardrum"
13:34 < kanzure> what has happened to this channel
13:40 < fltrz> kanzure, coronavirus happened
13:45 * adlai goes back to dreaming about scifi until the next day of "the world (from a social distance)"
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14:42 < archels_> .wik SR9009
14:42 < saxo> "SR9009, also known as Stenabolic, is a research drug that was developed by professor Thomas Burris of the Scripps Research Institute as an agonist of Rev-ErbA (i.e., increases the constitutive repression of genes regulated by Rev-ErbA) with a half-maximum inhibitory [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR9009
15:14 < archels_> my friend managed to mail order some chloroquine, dang
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18:24 < adlai> kanzure: since nobody has yet told me that it's "too soon" for jokes about SARS-nCOV-2109 i am already planning my earliest joke that is not about the latest pandemic, for once it becomes too soon to joke about it; should i take that kind of half-baked garbage to /r/jokes where it rightfully belongs?
18:25 < adlai> since it is allegedly an original composition, it is not funny at all, but at least it's not about suffocants either
18:27 < adlai> ... aaaaand it's not entirely original, just "inspired by xkcd 303"
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18:30 < adlai> latest https://xkcd.com/2283/ is promising, so far... "what if your merkle tree has a branching factor of exa?"
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18:38 < adlai> for the minimization of discontent, the doublequotes in that previous message are a paraphrase, rather than OCR
18:44 < adlai> on to less counterproductive distractions: some idiot was trolling #bitmex earlier about needing a public action from them about the pandemic, and that got me wondering about effective altruism for the case of international businesses that, while they may have offices and employees in specific locales, do not have a business that is rooted to any specific city state or continent; and i am wondering
18:44 < adlai> what you-all feel like volunteering, on this topic.
18:51 < kanzure> i wouldn't want to tell someone altruism is a good idea... plus that's verging on politics.
18:51 < kanzure> it is politics, really.
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19:29 < adlai> maybe by avoiding the polis, one can circumvent the urge to tell other people what to do with their resources in need of dispensation
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19:54 < Jay_Dugger> Good evening, everyone.
19:58 < kanzure> be greeted
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21:06 < dingo> i picked a bad time to look for work
21:06 < dingo> having a bit of unplanned staycation hehe
21:07 < dingo> its going to be a good year for FOSS
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22:32 < Hooloovo0> same
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22:33 < Hooloovo0> turns out my housemate might have some, but it might be a stretch
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 22 00:00:29 2020