--- Log opened Thu Apr 02 00:00:40 2020 00:11 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@185.92.25.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:14 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@185.92.25.103] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:21 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.128.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:29 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has quit [Quit: killed] 00:39 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.128.91] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:40 -!- abetusk is now known as Guest38588 00:57 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@ip68-5-175-208.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@ip68-5-175-208.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:33 -!- Guest38588 is now known as abetusk 01:38 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:42 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:41 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 -!- Guest95740 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:44 < nsh> it's pretty neat tbh (the blockstream satellite broadcast system) 02:51 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@185.92.25.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:58 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:38 < fltrz> yeah it looks neat, but its more against localized web censorship? 03:39 < fltrz> in a global situation I don't see what prevents the 5 uplinks from colluding and allowing only a fraction of the original hashrate of miners mine, until it drops low enough for them to outhash the rest 03:41 < fltrz> not sure how full the verification is, whats the bandwidth used in bits per second? and whats the bandwidth of new full bitcoin blocks 03:55 < jrayhawk> the satellite system is intrinsically going to add several seconds of latency, so miners are unlikely to use it as anything other than a failsafe in the first place 04:01 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@85.203.34.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:06 < fltrz> jrayhawk, I mean in an internet lockdown scenario, those miners can not communicate 04:08 < mrdata> um, what 04:09 < nsh> .t https://twitter.com/PhilBeales/status/1245334800107540484 04:09 < saxo> Struggling to be heard! We’ve developed a SARs-Covid2 assay (qRT-PCR) that will be able test up to 2000 people a day - spent the last 2 weeks trying to get engagement from Govt! @Nonacus @Congenica (@PhilBeales) 04:10 < jrayhawk> partitioning reorgs onto the majority hashrate, not the minority 04:10 < nsh> (partitioning takes away the ability of a node to know if it's on a global majority chain) 04:11 < jrayhawk> partitioning as a minority is a way to waste an enormous amount of your own resources 04:12 < nsh> i would imagine it depends on the topological conditions you can create, but sure costs will be prohibitive usually/hopefully 04:12 * nsh reads https://sci-hub.tw/https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8884930 04:15 < nsh> "Through simulations,we show that an attacker with ≈30% hash power can mislead nodes that are behind the main chain." 04:17 < nsh> "could make a vaccine from the sequence; they didn't need the organism" 04:17 < nsh> - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfcKh-ZeY20 05:04 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:06 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:12 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@185.192.70.135] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:15 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@85.203.34.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:47 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:55 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:59 < kanzure> .itle 05:59 < kanzure> .title 05:59 < saxo> The quest for the coronavirus vaccine | Seth Berkley - YouTube 06:15 < nsh> SARS-CoV-2 Cell Entry Depends on ACE2 and TMPRSS2 and Is Blocked by a Clinically Proven Protease Inhibitor - https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30229-4.pdf 06:16 < nsh> (however, ACE2 regulation is clinically important, effects of protease inhibition may complication various diseases/syndromes) 06:16 < nsh> *complicate 06:53 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fa0b0053 Michael Folkson: Add AJ Towns on Stephan Livera >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/stephan-livera-podcast/2019-12-27-aj-towns-schnorr-taproot/ 06:53 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=08ede1f7 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #84 from michaelfolkson/add-aj-towns >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 07:46 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezizfkumtgpcatmw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:55 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:57 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:56 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezizfkumtgpcatmw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:10 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:10 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvdjdqlnyzaazprj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:15 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyvgrpprpbhptdkv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:33 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:39 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- traumschule [~traumschu@mehl.schokokeks.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:09 -!- faceface_ is now known as faceface 11:51 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:59 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:06 -!- ircnoob154 [~ircnoob15@217.138.203.176] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:08 -!- ircnoob154 [~ircnoob15@217.138.203.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:08 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:36 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:56 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:15 < lsneff> I’m glad the nasa worm logo is back. 13:24 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:29 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34 -!- jayoo1 [2bf192ba@43.241.146.186] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:37 -!- jayoo1 [2bf192ba@43.241.146.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02 < fltrz> jrayhawk, sure thats when everyone has internet access, but if nearly no-one has, and can only receive from satellite, then what? 14:02 < fltrz> or is that out of scope? 14:34 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49 < jrayhawk> I'm not sure what the question is. There are intrinsic tradeoffs between serializability and availability. Bitcoin makes defection on eventual-serialization an easily estimable expense in terms of opportunity cost (censorship or reversal costs ~$500,000 per hour at present rates, potentially diminishing at a rate by limited difficulty adjustment), and is usually reasonably easy to identify after 14:49 < jrayhawk> the fact, so there are reputational costs on top of defection. Collusion is also an extra cost on top of reputation and defection costs in coordination overhead. Connectivity has a cost/benefit in increasing collusion requirements. 14:50 -!- galambo [galambo@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/galambo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:59 < jrayhawk> Does Blockstream or Telstra or the U.S. Government have a $500,000/hr incentive to defect? There's a non-zero likelihood of that being the case, so you get to do expected value calculations based on your use-case. 15:00 < jrayhawk> Or the Australian government. 15:07 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:17 < fltrz> jrayhawk, I agree with those deductions in the sense of them being conditioned on the premise being true that "it is too expensive for governments to shut down internet"; this ignores conditions 1) where this is no longer true or 2) the expense is amortized over a primary reason to shut it down due to say civil unrest due to hunger or rising food prices due to CV 15:19 < fltrz> an example of 1) is when due to price inflation and mass migration to cryptocurrencies, the government finds itself unable to reward the members of arm of the law, i.e. police / military 15:20 < fltrz> or if people start ganging up and proposing to "rob the super markets in big crowds" as is being proposed by the hungry underbelly in Italy currently 15:21 < fltrz> it's not because a certain premise which holds most of the time was true most of this time, that it is guaranteed the government will keep a hands off approach to cryptocurrency 15:22 < jrayhawk> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/WA50-Standings/Distance-Records-1-Dec-2019.pdf good luck shutting down long-distance communication 15:22 < fltrz> everyone who thinks about these things know theres a bunch of domino's set in place, think of our signed bootloaders and playground platforms on smartphones, think of our reliance on internet, think of ... 15:23 < fltrz> but if the masses don't think about these things, and do a dumb move, we might all lose internet 15:24 < fltrz> jrayhawk, but can we pipe 7B peoples transactions like that? 15:25 < fltrz> jrayhawk, can we expect 7B people to build a trustworthy computer from scratch? bake their own processors? 15:25 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:25 < jrayhawk> No reason to. Most people don't have any reason to pay for 5-10m average settlement speed. 15:26 < fltrz> jrayhawk, to be clear, I think cryptocurrencies are good progress for humanity, but this doesn't mean we have won the decentralization game yet 15:26 < jrayhawk> There is no winning the decentralization game. There are intrinsic tradeoffs between availability and serializability. 15:27 < jrayhawk> Bitcoin is a very expensive way to navigate that tradeoff, one that most people have no reason to use. 15:27 < fltrz> jrayhawk, consider the following: government does undercover tests of shops and distributors, asks to pay with crypto, if possible, place is shut down... 15:30 < fltrz> jrayhawk, how much power does one of the 5 uplinks to the satellite consume? 15:30 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:30 < fltrz> jrayhawk, is it optical or radio? 15:31 < fltrz> in theory a satellite could randomly point at different spots for registered uplinks... 15:32 < fltrz> when registering as an uplink, you can notify the sat in advance a future location of choice so the government can't predict uplink locations 15:33 < fltrz> this all assumes the sat wasn't compromised... 15:34 < fltrz> I believe there is possibility of winning the decentralization game, its just a long and arduous process, and its not won yet 15:37 < jrayhawk> http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol7/p181-bailis.pdf No, there is no winning decentralization. 15:37 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:38 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvdjdqlnyzaazprj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:43 < fltrz> jrayhawk, do you also keep up to date with algorand developments? 15:50 < jrayhawk> I have nothing polite to say about proof-of-stake. 16:17 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:20 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@185.192.70.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:22 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:22 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:26 -!- superjen96 [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:30 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:53 < kanzure> fltrz: https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/pos.pdf 16:56 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:09 < fltrz> kanzure, thats too shallow for me tbh 17:13 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:17 < fltrz> btw im not defending PoS 17:17 < fltrz> which is a pretty ill defined concept 17:18 < fltrz> "skin in game algorithm" 17:21 < fenn> same thing 17:26 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:31 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15 < nmz787> fltrz: why the question of optical vs radio? they're the same medium 18:20 < fltrz> nmz787, thats true, I just wondered what was used 19:11 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyvgrpprpbhptdkv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:23 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:32 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:34 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:03 -!- galambo [galambo@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/galambo] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 20:04 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:25 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:30 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:52 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:49 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:52 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:24 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:24 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:27 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:31 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:37 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:147b:bb49:5c9b:67f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Apr 03 00:00:41 2020