--- Log opened Wed Apr 15 00:00:52 2020 00:49 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23 < nsh> meanwhile: https://www.quantamagazine.org/does-time-really-flow-new-clues-come-from-a-century-old-approach-to-math-20200407/ 01:24 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:26 < nsh> i suppose the degree of symbiotic co-evolution will depend on factors affecting the stability and heritability of microbiomes, presence of absence of genes/proteins/mechanisms for garnering utility from the codependence, the degree of overlap of environmental niche suitability properties between endosymbiants and hosts, etc. 01:28 < nsh> (carefully) taking analogy from the world of software, there are classes of programs/toolsets/suites that are highly symbiotic autonomous-code-assemblages of a smaller scale and there are monolithic non-symbiotes 01:28 < nsh> +with 01:28 < nsh> but variation within e.g. ants is harder to inform by that analogy 02:02 < nsh> not sure how reliable this is but scary in principle: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective 02:02 < nsh> .t 02:02 < saxo> Coronavirus could attack immune system like HIV by targeting protective cells, warn scientists | South China Morning Post 02:09 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/zrzCYgNnHfI 02:09 < saxo> Dog Off on ICRA 2019 in Montreal - YouTube 02:10 < fenn> 8 minutes of robot dogs sniffing each others' butts 02:11 < fenn> is this about the CD147 receptor? 02:12 < nsh> fusion with cell membrane allowing the virus to hijack and disable killer T-cells responding to cell infection 02:13 < nsh> suggestions of total immune system failure 02:14 < nsh> might explain why e.g. my dad has had steady infection markers and consistently high temperature despite various antibiotic and antifungal treatments over a fortnight on ventilation 02:15 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:17 < nsh> .t https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.18.20024364v1 02:17 < saxo> Reduction and Functional Exhaustion of T Cells in Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | medRxiv 02:17 < fenn> is that the paper (not) referenced in the article? 02:18 < fenn> your dad's in the hospital? 02:19 * nsh nods 02:20 < nsh> i think that's the paper, i searched the author's name and covid19 and T-cells 02:21 < nsh> i wonder if stem cell / bone marrow donations would help treatment 02:21 < nsh> probably not possible to expedite under UK NHS though 02:21 < fenn> doesn't that usually include killing the patient's own immune system first? 02:21 < nsh> for stem cell donations there's a stimulation phase to increase the count, not sure how long that takes 02:22 < nsh> don't know 02:22 < nsh> there are complete immune system transfers 02:22 < nsh> but there might be a less complete variant, not sure 02:22 < nsh> i guess the issue is conflicts 02:22 < fenn> i think otherwise they will fight 02:22 * nsh nods 02:22 < fenn> and if the immune system is already fighting some infection, and you kill it, then you die of the infection before the new one can get up to full strength 02:23 < fenn> "It may be autologous (the patient's own stem cells are used" 02:23 < fenn> that would solve some problems 02:28 < nsh> can stem cells be culture ex-vivo? 02:28 < nsh> *cultured 02:29 < fenn> yeah 02:29 < nsh> that seems viable then aye 02:29 < nsh> may become commonplace that people have their own stem cells removed and kept frozen for emergency situations like this 02:29 < nsh> as with germ line cells 02:29 < fenn> it's a new type of therapy, i doubt any hospital would actually do it, even if you asked nicely 02:29 * nsh nods 02:30 < nsh> kanzure's dodgy eastern european labs to the rescue 02:31 < fenn> on one hand the medical establishment complains about dodgy stem cell clinics, and on the other hand they refuse to provide any sort of treatment 02:32 * nsh nods 02:32 < nsh> some risk/caution/conservatism calculus may be reconsidered due to this pandemic 02:33 < fenn> so far all i've seen is massive system-wide incompetence 02:34 < fenn> "wear a scarf" is not the sort of relaxed regulations i'm looking for 02:39 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:48fa:d283:233c:70de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:10 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:28 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:31 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:51 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:26 < TMA> fenn: I have understood that you should be happy that you are still permitted to breathe at all. Do not criticize the government or your oxygen rights will be revoked. 05:37 < fenn> heil Trump 05:37 < fenn> do i get access to a ventilator now? 05:42 < juri_> no. you're not rich enough. 05:42 < TMA> fenn: due to massive system-wide incompetence there are not enough for your ilk 05:48 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f2052cc1 Michael Folkson: Add Kostya on fuzzing >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/cppcon/2017/2017-10-11-kostya-serebryany-fuzzing/ 05:48 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f1796fc2 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #95 from michaelfolkson/add-kostya-fuzzing >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 06:44 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgwnbfmfarwmyvkm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- N-time [~Mark@212.225.172.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:52 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:37 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:39 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- urkk_ [~urkk@228.136.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:25 -!- urkk [~urkk@207.131.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:30 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:25 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fojovwjlugvhdjxr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:36 -!- sektor [~sektor@46.252.59.175] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:13 < lsneff> I wonder if university attendance in the fall will drop dramatically 11:45 < mrdata> depends whether fashion covid-19 masks are available 11:54 < jrayhawk> wolfram is doing daily livestreaming discussions of his unified model of physics https://twitch.tv/stephen_wolfram 11:55 < jrayhawk> https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/04/finally-we-may-have-a-path-to-the-fundamental-theory-of-physics-and-its-beautiful/ 12:03 < archels> > Journals have retracted or flagged more than 40 papers from China that appear to have used organ transplants from executed prisoners 12:06 < archels> hm https://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/resources/ethics/the-ethics-of-organ-donation-from-condemned-prisoners/ 12:09 < archels> > notable attention following two highly publicized events: an editorial by condemned prisoner Christian Longo published in The New York Times advocating for the right of fellow death row inmates to donate their organs, and the request by death row inmate Gregory Scott Johnson to have his execution stayed until he could donate a portion of his hepatitis-infected liver to his debilitated sister. 12:11 < archels> tl;dr https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388804/ 12:11 < kanzure> .title 12:11 < saxo> Prisoners on Death Row Should be Accepted as Organ Donors 12:40 < fenn> but muh ethics 12:42 < fenn> i bet everyone thought this was a stupid product until about a month ago https://www.iphoneness.com/wearables/fitair-on-the-go 12:42 < fenn> this is what a DIY PAPR should look like 12:42 < fenn> maybe even bigger filters 12:43 < fenn> depends on the exact physics of the hepa filter being used 12:43 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fojovwjlugvhdjxr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:52 < superkuh> re:"Prisoners on Death Row Should be Accepted as Organ Donors" ... do you want the beast with two heads? Because that's how you get the beast with two heads. 12:52 < superkuh> And one of the greatest chase scenes in the history of film. 12:52 < fenn> chase scene? 12:53 < superkuh> 15 minutes of moped antics and a dozen cop cars destroyed. 12:53 < fenn> is this the plot of logan's run or something like that 12:53 < superkuh> Oh, I misremembered the name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_with_Two_Heads 12:55 < lsneff> jrayhawk: What do you think of his theory? 13:04 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbmsrwsblydpuhun] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:06 < fenn> the question is whether they would have killed those falun gong prisoners if not for their organs 13:07 -!- urkk [~urkk@127.133.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:07 -!- urkk_ [~urkk@228.136.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:08 -!- sektor [~sektor@46.252.59.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-103-159-2.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:24 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-103-159-2.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:28 -!- jazzrichards [~jazzricha@184.75.223.219] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:30 -!- jazzrichards [~jazzricha@184.75.223.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:48fa:d283:233c:70de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hswvcjhovxgbwyka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:24 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:33 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:23 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbmsrwsblydpuhun] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:29 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hswvcjhovxgbwyka] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:32 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgwnbfmfarwmyvkm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:00 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: [init refresh daemon..... ]] 23:04 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:04 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:11 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19 -!- temp [ba54589e@186.84.88.158] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:20 -!- temp [ba54589e@186.84.88.158] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 23:22 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:36 -!- gwillen [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37 -!- gwillen [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- LarchOye [nonmoose@spaceweed.spacetechnology.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] --- Log closed Thu Apr 16 00:00:53 2020