--- Log opened Fri May 08 00:00:18 2020
00:46 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@88.125.182.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:46 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@88.125.182.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:09 -!- Azitrex [~Azitrex@unaffiliated/azitrex] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:12 < nsh> wondering if you can use the solar wind as a lens somehow
01:12 < nsh> ie it's bunch of charged particles, can you make the jiggle in such a manner that harvestable solar radiation is condensed to a useful extent
01:12 < nsh> *them
01:13 < nsh> if they had a lattice structure then yes trivially, but they don't and whether you can simulate a lattice through giving them induced mutual resonances is not clear
01:14 < nsh> in any case it would probably take more power than it would yield by focussing
01:38 < fenn> .wik bussard ramscoop
01:38 < saxo> "The Bussard ramjet is a theoretical method of spacecraft propulsion proposed in 1960 by the physicist Robert W. Bussard, popularized by  Poul Anderson's novel Tau Zero, Larry Niven in his Known Space series of books, Vernor Vinge in his Zones of Thought series, and referred [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramscoop
01:40 < fenn> it results in more drag than the momentum you'd gain by fusing the hydrogen
02:04 < L29Ah> probably should carry a black hole with me to grab the hydrogen via gravitation
02:20 < nsh> never go anywhere without a towel and a black hole
06:07 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lfntxecczcddvafh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:37 -!- Azitrex [~Azitrex@unaffiliated/azitrex] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
06:44 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
06:44 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:02 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlzmxphbvmjnsknw] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:05 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:06 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:09 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:13 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
08:14 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin
08:20 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
08:34 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:40 < lsneff> .title https://www.wired.com/story/nasas-emdrive-leader-has-a-new-interstellar-project/
08:40 < saxo> NASA's EmDrive Leader Has a New Interstellar Project | WIRED
08:40 < L29Ah> lol
09:04 < mrdata> L29Ah, whats funny?
09:06 < L29Ah> "oh no, not these freaks again"
09:09 < fenn> lsneff: emdrive is a total waste of time to even think about
09:09 < lsneff> I agree, I think it's been shown to not work multiple times.
09:10 < lsneff> The mega drive stuff is a little more interesting I think, but also very touch and go
09:14 < fenn> i've never heard woodward's stuff referred to with that acronym
09:19 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.22.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:33 < lsneff> I saw a nasa release in which they referred to it as the *MEGA DRIVE* a few months back.
09:44 -!- dongcarl [~dongcarl@unaffiliated/dongcarl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:37 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@188.146.97.244.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:08 < Llamamoe> Meow
11:44 < lsneff> I'm not sure you're in the right channel
11:49 < Llamamoe> lsneff: Why not?
11:50 < Llamamoe> What's more transhumanism than to become a catgirl?
11:52 < lsneff> You know, you're entirely right
11:53 < lsneff> You'll fit right in
11:54 < Llamamoe> And what does the journey with nekodom start with if not cackling manically while designing bizarre plasmids targeting your skin and hair cells?
11:58 < Llamamoe> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC130596/ (=^ ◡ ^=)
11:58 < Llamamoe> (=^-ω-^=)
11:59 < lsneff> Glowing hair would be pretty dope
12:01 < Llamamoe> lsneff: Or even better, imagine injecting three sets of genes, each activated by a different co-activator, so you can tune the RGB of your hair
12:02 < Llamamoe> But I guess that kinda long term thing would require CRISPRing the cells, and uhh, I don't really think CRISPRing living cells is a great idea
12:02 < Llamamoe> Like there's Cas9-es with extreme accuracy, but that goes a little outta the window once you start actually slicing and dicing the DNA
12:08 < lsneff> At the very least, that'll be possible once we have nanotech.
12:09 < Llamamoe> lsneff: What are proteins if not nanotech? ;)
12:09 -!- ffranr [~ffranr@79-64-220-223.host.pobb.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:13 < L29Ah> ^, we are unlikely to have nanotech that is more precise or efficient tha biological stuff any soon, and probably improving the biological stuff is more effective for the decades to follow
12:13 < Llamamoe> Yuupp
12:13 < Llamamoe> We already have tons of funky modified enzymes and combination proteins
12:15 < lsneff> That's true enough. We'd need fairly mature nanotech to be better than biology here.
12:16 < Llamamoe> Tbh,
12:16 < Llamamoe> We're probably just gonna use ML to design proteins
12:16 < Llamamoe> What else could have more abundant and versatile building blocks?
12:17 < Llamamoe> We literally have fucking gigawhatthefuckillions of tons of amino acids on Earth, and uncountable cells that can run em
12:20 < L29Ah> rhibosomes go brrrr
12:20 < L29Ah> those fucking nano-assemblers are everywhere
12:23 < Llamamoe> So what kinda stuff goes on in this channel?
12:24 < L29Ah> see topic
12:25 < Llamamoe> No I mean, what kinda chats and topics usually happen in the channel?
12:25 < lsneff> You can check out the chat logs if you want
12:25 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
12:29 < Llamamoe> I don't wanna dig through hours of chat logs to find out what hypothetically could be approximately summed up in two or three sentences :-(
12:32 < docl> nano stuff, bio stuff, space stuff, self replicating machines
12:33 < Llamamoe> docl: Do projects or theorycrafting thereof happen, or is it more commentary on advances in science ?
12:33 < docl> little of each
12:34 < docl> isaac arthur stuff but less normie friendly is how I'd think of it
12:36 < Llamamoe> Hm.
12:36 < Llamamoe> Do you have any open/citizen science/technology platforms/communities/resources/etc. to link?
12:39 < L29Ah> ##chemistry, Cochrane
12:42 < Llamamoe> I find that this exchange is only slightly illuminating as to the value of this channel
12:45 < Llamamoe> So like what kinds of things can and/or should I talk about here?
12:47 < docl> nano stuff, bio stuff, space stuff, self replicating machines <- great examples of things you can/should talk about here
12:49 < docl> using ML to design proteins would be a good thing to talk about, sounds interesting
12:50 < L29Ah> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7uQteSWT5k btw nice song about space travel, life extension, interstellar expansion and hedonism
12:50 < Llamamoe> Has anyone here done any real genetic engineering?
12:50 < Llamamoe> What about neurochem stuff?
13:43 < juri_> there's also me reminding everyone to do productive stuff, not talk all day. ;)
13:46 < Llamamoe> Alas, literally impossible for me. For the time being, at least.
13:47 < juri_> it's never impossible. there's always software to write.
13:47 < ffranr> Why is that? Do you work in a wet lab?
13:48 < Llamamoe> I'm a sad dysfunctional excuse of a human being with one of the worst cases of ADHD I've seen and a decade of severe depression and social isolation and counting so far
13:48 < Llamamoe> IDK. I want to be productive, but like... it's such fucking agony
13:49 < docl> productivity is hard
13:49 < ffranr> "Swing by First Methodist Tuesday nights. See the guys with testicular cancer. That's pain." :)
13:51 < Llamamoe> Anyway, I'm not just giving up on being productive.
13:51 < Llamamoe> I'm for now trying a very unusual for ADHD medication. If that fails to work, I'll try the usual suspects, and then there's several investigational drugs on my radar.
13:52 < Llamamoe> If some help but not enough, I kinda want to try doing a human version of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4264057/ | https://www.cell.com/stem-cell-reports/pdfExtended/S2213-6711(15)00100-9 some day anyway
13:53 < Llamamoe> But I guess I would first need to function to even consider that.
13:53 < Llamamoe> Sigh. The world sucks and we should just end it
13:55 < docl> what meds have you tried so far?
13:57 < docl> do you tend to hyperfocus sometimes? or more like can't stay on one thing very long?
13:58 < Llamamoe> docl: I'm trying the first one now, and like I said, it's not a med that is typically prescribed for ADHD, Selegiline. Bupropion is a little beyond my pocket, and the classical stimulants have contraindications (not great mental stability, family history of schizophrenia)
13:58 < Llamamoe> Honestly I have virtually every symptom, most as severe as they get. Probably severely exacerbated by my degenerate lifestyle.
13:59 < Llamamoe> Trying Selegiline was my own idea, and a classical example of ADHD style novelty seeking.
13:59 < docl> yeah adhd + depression makes it hard to have a good lifestyle
14:00 < Llamamoe> Because the information online about it was extremely limited.
14:00 < Llamamoe> Less than 10 studies/trials, some inconclusive most with methodological limitations, maybe three dozen people that I could find across the internet who used it for ADHD, no opinions from psychiatrists that I could dig up
14:01 < docl> I'm currently on nicotine gum and coffee. I had some modafinil a while back, which seemed like it was helping but I was worried about my blood pressure so I stopped.
14:02 < Llamamoe> docl: Aren't both nicotine and coffee both weak and party to severe tolerance buildup?
14:03 < docl> yeah although nicotine supposedly doesn't build tolerance, I seem to have a high tolerance now. definitely high caffiene tolerance.
14:04 < ffranr> I'm sorry to hear of your situation Llamamoe. I don't have experience with what you're going through but it's clearly very difficult.
14:04 < Llamamoe> docl: Want to hear about Selegiline? In theory it should be very nearly tolerance free. And I have several other substances that I want to try at some point that are relevant to ADHD as well.
14:05 < docl> sure, nootropics is on topic here anyway
14:05 < juri_> knowledge is power. ;)
14:06 < Llamamoe> Like there's several selective D2Sh(dopamine autoreceptor) antagonists out there, the main one I've looked at so far being A-412,997, which literally act through a mechanism opposite to the one responsible for dopamine tolerance. They're poorly researched and therefore more of a "last resort", but if all else fails I can try paying a Chinese lab via Alibaba to synthesize and ship me a kilo of one of those
14:07 < Llamamoe> I also want to try NSI-189, which acts through an unknown mechanism of action unrelated to neurotransmission that promotes a high degree of synaptogenesis, and has been reported by people online as useful for anhedonia relief, and reversal of cognitive issues caused by long term depression
14:08 < Llamamoe> Another one is IDRA-21, which is a positive allosteric modulator of AMPA. It does not include any tolerance, but supposedly the impact on cognition is huge enough that people feel stupid by comparison off it. And like, science.bio sells 1g for $45, and 5mg/2d is on the high end of doses for this substance.
14:10 < ffranr> Have you considered the ketogenic diet? It has a significant effect on ADHD in dogs. See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357645/
14:10 < Llamamoe> By which I presume animal model of ADHD?
14:11 -!- pixeldust [~pixeldust@50-39-183-114.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:11 < ffranr> yes
14:11 < Llamamoe> Tbh, at some point I might, but ugh. I already have huge appetite issues, and I've had a bout of trying to eat enough on a restricted diet, and... ugh.
14:16 < docl> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-412997
14:16 < saxo> "A-412,997 is a drug which acts as a dopamine agonist that is used in scientific research. It is the first drug developed that is a highly selective agonist for the D4 subtype, with significantly improved selectivity over older D4-preferring compounds such as PD-168,077 and [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-412997
14:17 < Llamamoe> Oh wait sorry that's the wrong one
14:17 < docl> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI-189
14:17 < saxo> "NSI-189 is an experimental, potential antidepressant that is under investigation by Neuralstem, Inc. for the treatment for major depressive disorder (MDD), as well as for cognitive impairment and neurodegeneration.  /  A phase II clinical trial for MDD failed to meet the [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI-189
14:17 < Llamamoe> That's the D4 agonist
14:17 < docl> wiki says it's slightly similar to methylphenidate
14:17 < Llamamoe> The D2Sh antagonists areeeee: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2880302
14:17 < docl> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDRA-21
14:17 < saxo> "IDRA-21 is a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor and a benzothiadiazine derivative. It is a chiral molecule, with (+)-IDRA-21 being the active form. /  IDRA-21 shows nootropic effects in animal studies, significantly improving learning and memory." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDRA-21
14:17 < Llamamoe> docl: Methylphenidate is a reuptake inhibitor, A-412,997 is a selective D4 receptor agonist.
14:18 < docl> ahh
14:18 < Llamamoe> The efficacy is comparable to MPH, but mechanism of action is vastly different. IMO, in a slightly worrying way, I don't like the idea of significantly messing with patterns of neurotransmission in ways the brain is not "designed" for
14:20 < Llamamoe> Anyway docl, Selegiline is a weird substance for ADHD, but in theory it has every basis to work. Its most well-known property is inhibition of MAO-B, the enzyme that metabolizes some share of dopamine, and most of phenethylamine.
14:20 < Llamamoe> Phenethylamine is an endogenous stimulant, that positively modulates NA and DE release, and antagonizes dopamine autoreceptors, increasing dopamine sensitivity. And reduced PEA levels are one of the most consistent biomarkers of human ADHD.
14:20 < Llamamoe> On its own, aside from MAO-B inhibition, the molecule gets weird. It significantly elevates dopamine transporter levels, while actually reducing dopamine reuptake, and positively modulating its release, and it antagonizes dopamine autoreceptors though this might just be PEA.
14:20 < Llamamoe> It also significantly reduces brain oxidative stress, upregulates synaptogenesis, is neuroprotective against multiple neurotoxins, stroke, neurodegenerative disease, and even brain aging itself, and consistently extends the lifespan of lab animals.
14:21 < Llamamoe> The studies related to its efficacy wrt/ ADHD seem slightly suspect but seem to conclude with "not statistically different from Methylphenidate, except there's no real side effects". User experiences seem to mostly be moderately positive, with the most common one being summed up as "it's not as powerful as stimulants, but it's far more tolerable and sustainable, with no tolerance buildup whatsoever at 5mg/d"
14:22 < docl> very nice!
14:22 < Llamamoe> Most people for whom it did not work seem to have had histories of substance abuse, wanting immediate results, wanting euphoria of amphetamines, etc.
14:24 < Llamamoe> My own impression at 2 weeks of 2x5mg/d is: I literally do not feel like I am on anything psychoactive, and while I still engage in numerous pathological habits, especially on PC, I have experienced enough improvement that I find it hard to credit to placebo. But it seriously just feels like I'm just having way better days than on anything psychoactive enough that I can't dismiss the possibility
14:24 < Llamamoe> Probably most "objective" measure of it doing something for my neurotransmission is significant improvements in previously dead libido
14:25 < Llamamoe> Other than that, I can only claim so far moderate subjective improvements to tolerating chores/non-stimulating tasks, prioritiziation, contextual and working memory, verbal fluency, attention, etc.
14:27 < docl> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline
14:27 < saxo> "Selegiline, also known as L-deprenyl and sold under the brand names Eldepryl and Emsam among others, is a medication which is used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease and major depressive disorder." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline
14:27 < Llamamoe> Like I have spent multiple days without getting on PC, and actually doing productive meaningful stuff in the past 2w, my mood has been significantly improved, the sourceless painful anxiety is 95% gone, but at the same time I've also spent the last 3.5h chattering away on PC.
14:28 < docl> relative improvement is still improvement
14:28 < Llamamoe> docl: The use for MDD btw, is at significantly higher doses, and ones that entail MAO-A inhibition
14:28 < Llamamoe> But yeah, we'll see how it works out at 2mo mark
14:28 < Llamamoe> It's definitely not an instant results thing.
14:29 < Llamamoe> It 100% has some stimulant-like activity on its own but it's really subtle, enough that after the first few doses, I can only vaguely tell the peak from the new baseline
14:31 < Llamamoe> The discoverer of the compound and several related ones called its stimulant-like property "catecholaminergic activity enhancer", since it does not change actual patterns of neurotransmission the way stimulants do. It just does a combo of strengthening DA/NE release when neurons fire, elevating background levels, and then having PEA do the same through its own endogenous mechanisms
14:32 < Llamamoe> But like, today I have done some thought exercises, because ordinarily my mind is just a huge, huge, useless mental bog of short snippets of useless thoughts that I cannot organize.
14:32 < Llamamoe> I have actually managed to work through several hypothetical problems, in the order I meant to, without forgetting the subsequent TODO entries.
14:32 < Llamamoe> But again, I'm still spamming wall of texts away on IRC, so....
14:32 < docl> hey this is good stuff
14:34 < Llamamoe> Like yeah, I can manage to just do shit away from PC without craving its stimulation, but *when* I get on it, I'm 95% back to my usual pathology.
14:34 < Llamamoe> docl: Anyway, now you tell me cool stuff :P
14:37 < Llamamoe> Or actually, crap, it's almost midnight.
14:38 < docl> lol I know the feeling
14:39 < docl> I've been thinking today mainly about how to get to orbital altitude cheaply. once you get there, my idea is to use eddy current braking along a track to coast to orbital velocity
14:39 < docl> https://medium.com/@rokomijic/the-space-runway-faq-8e5b2cbd6f7e
14:39 < docl> .title
14:39 < saxo> The Space Runway FAQ - Roko Mijic - Medium
14:40 < Llamamoe> I'd love to commit to reading it, but I already have 1000 perma-open tabs as it is, so...
14:41 < docl> a friend wrote that up. anyway basically you need a rocket to get high enough. It's a lot less energy if you don't have to pay for orbital burn with chemical rockets
14:41 < docl> well, you still need the momentum for orbital burn but the idea is the track is slowed down a small fraction of its orbit temporarily, then boosts itself back to orbit with ion engines
14:43 < Llamamoe> If you'd like, we can chat about this another day, though I'm at the moment not interested in space-related stuff
14:43 < docl> so the problem I'm focused on today is how you can get your ship high enough as cheap as possible. at 200 km high, you need 2MJ worth of energy per kg
14:43 < ffranr> docl: the company Planet used atmospheric resistance to slow down satellites and bring them into a target orbit: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281670187_Orbit_Determination_and_Differential-drag_Control_of_Planet_Labs_Cubesat_Constellations
14:43 < Llamamoe> But for today, I need to log off, sorry. Good night
14:43 < docl> have a good one
14:43 < Llamamoe> Thanks ^^
14:44 < Llamamoe> Speaking of sleep, Selegiline's effect on it has so far been pretty minimal.
14:44 < Llamamoe> I sleep less, but better. Also I usually get supper sleepy at the 1h peak from administration
14:44 < Llamamoe> So then I nap :3
14:44 < docl> nice!
14:46 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@188.146.97.244.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:51 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlzmxphbvmjnsknw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
15:20 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihvsvosqvbfqykhh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
15:40 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:49 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:31 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihvsvosqvbfqykhh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
18:24 -!- ffranr [~ffranr@79-64-220-223.host.pobb.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:20 < kanzure> "Threshold ECDSA for decentralized asset custody" https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/498.pdf
19:27 < kanzure> "Storing and retrieving secrets on a blockchain" https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/504.pdf
19:41 -!- turona [~quassel@2a01:c22:ac23:9e00:c746:9aeb:4c67:f96a] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:43 -!- turona [~quassel@2a01:c23:600e:7100:1218:5071:7900:97e] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:29 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.22.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:32 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))]
20:32 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:36 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lfntxecczcddvafh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
21:20 < fenn> you can't use the app on a rooted device, but you must use the app: https://medium.com/@fs0c131y/aarogya-setu-the-story-of-a-failure-3a190a18e34
21:21 < fenn> need some good "oh, india!" memes
21:53 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:34 < jrayhawk> reminder that phenylethylamine+selegiline is essentially meth (combo TAAR1 agonist plus MOA-B antagonist) and should be approached with extreme caution
22:34 < jrayhawk> er, MAO-B
22:41 < jrayhawk> additionally, it's "irreversible", which is to say the changes in receptor expression take a *long* time to undo in the event that anything goes wrong.
22:44 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:11 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:33 < nmz787> jrayhawk: why not use a reversible one for a more controlled effect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_B#Reversible
23:33 < nmz787> "garlic" lol
23:33 < nmz787> gotta get my fix
23:35 < jrayhawk> Garlic's effects are non-trivial. It causes dry-mouth for a reason.
23:40 < nmz787> man, it's been many many years since I've had dry mouth
23:40 < nmz787> I can hardly remember it
23:40 < nmz787> in some ways, I wonder if the solution would have been my parents giving me a liter Nalgene bottle to carry water around
23:40 < nmz787> being more hydrated at least couldn't have been a bad thing
23:44 < jrayhawk> Wouldn't help with MAO or stimulant-induced downregulation of salivary glands.
23:44 < jrayhawk> It's a stress response to conserve fluids for sweating.
23:45 < jrayhawk> er, MAO-I
23:46 < nmz787> nah, but I guess it didn't impress me in any negative way
23:46 < nmz787> I guess the worst effect could have been on my teeth?
23:47 < nmz787> I honestly didn't know garlic causes dry mouth
--- Log closed Sat May 09 00:00:15 2020