--- Log opened Thu Aug 27 00:00:00 2020 01:03 < archels> what's Eugen Leitl up to lately? I heard cryonics in Germany is gaining traction 03:45 < fenn> cathal's "people living where viable alternatives exist" is literally no-one 05:27 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdrzoptvwmnntvas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:40 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52 < kanzure> archels: just pinged him, will update with reply 06:58 < kanzure> archels: he's exited the cryonics projects for now 07:04 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:06 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:08 < kanzure> https://www.city-journal.org/peter-thiel 07:12 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:59 < archels> ah, too bad 08:14 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.163] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 -!- saxo [~saxo@2001:19f0:6800:1102:5400:ff:fe11:39a1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31 -!- saxo [~saxo@2001:19f0:6800:1102:5400:ff:fe11:39a1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:40 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mbexsptktbxaapfl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:12 < kanzure> bostrom is basically evil https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf 15:18 < fenn> go on 15:20 < fenn> "that's not even an argument" 15:22 < fenn> fine, i'll have a go at it 15:22 < fenn> bostrom unfairly presupposes the negative externalities of novel technologies outweigh the positive externalities 15:23 < fenn> for example, in his "easy nukes" scenario, this also means easy nuclear power, and all players have a strategic deterrent to war in general 15:24 < fenn> in the "democratization of biowarfare" scenario, this also means "democratization of defense against natural diseases" 15:27 < fenn> he neglects to consider that it might be better and maybe even easier to create a fair and just world in which nobody is motivated to unleash weapons of mass destruction, instead jumping straight to absurdly dystopian levels of surveillance and control 15:28 < fenn> has bostrom been taking money from china recently? 15:38 < fenn> his "enabling technology" (e.g. DNA synthesis machines) vs "protective technology" (e.g. global surveillance) is a false dichotomy. all technology is enabling, and all technology is protective, when used to protect something 15:39 < fenn> we've enjoyed much less war since the invention of nuclear weapons 15:40 < fenn> bostrom's argument amounts to "tie your feet together, so you don't accidentally fall over when you are learning to walk" 15:45 < heath> https://sourcehut.org/ 15:45 < kanzure> we're in a world where the "future of humanity institute" is an organization dedicated to global surveillance and control-of-control, pretty wild 15:46 < fenn> heath: is that literally just ikiwiki? 15:50 < fenn> hmm looks like they wrote a markdown rendering tool for their docs and it ended up looking a lot like ikiwiki 15:50 < heath> fenn: not sure what their site is built with, but that's a github/cgit replacement 15:51 < fenn> sure i guess 15:51 < fenn> github is not necessary imho 15:51 < fenn> why was repository hosting so hard again? 15:52 < fenn> kanzure just wait until they literally become a terrorist organization 15:53 < fenn> "if you really believed that..." 15:54 < fenn> jesus christ he even calls it a "freedom tag" 15:55 < fenn> 1984 was not supposed to be a how-to manual 15:57 < heath> "The freedom tagis a slightly more advanced appliance, worn aroundthe neck and bedecked with multidirectional cam-eras and microphones. Encrypted video and audiois continuously uploaded from the device to thecloud and machine-interpreted in real time. AI algo-rithms classify the activities of the wearer, his handmovements, nearby objects, and other situationalcues. If suspicious activity is detected, 15:58 < heath> the feed isrelayed to one of several patriot monitoring sta-tions." 15:58 < fenn> i'm really hoping this is all some elaborate troll, but readers of Global Policy are not going to take it that way 16:04 < jrayhawk> repository hosting is easy, shared repository hosting is somewhat harder because the git developers are mostly in the pocket of Big Git Hosting 16:05 < jrayhawk> so supporting core.sharedrepository is not on their todo list 16:05 < jrayhawk> some stuff is broken on diyhpl.us as a result, such as pruned history checkouts 16:06 < jrayhawk> the modern solution, AFAICT, is "deploy gitlab" 16:08 < jrayhawk> the git-shell userspace-security paradigm (incl. gitolite) has a history of very dumb security vulnerabilities 16:20 < fenn> i find it bizarre how bostrom assumes that states are necessarily the good guys, and groups enabled by clever cryptoeconomic mechanism design are the bad guys intent on destroying the world, immediately after the section about how to cold war brought us to the brink several times 16:22 < kanzure> so anders sandberg is going to be bombing transhumanists soon enough? 16:22 < kanzure> i guess i shouldn't try to radicalize them 16:24 < fenn> there ought to be a fallacy called "appealing to the audience" or something like that, where you say something the intended reader is likely to believe because it relies on them being the good guy 16:24 < fenn> so the audience is necessarily engaged in wishful thinking in order to make your argument work 16:25 < fenn> this is what bostrom is doing, and it's just bad 16:25 < fenn> shame on you nick bostrom, you should know better 16:44 < jrayhawk> that would be a rhetorical tool, not a fallacy 16:44 < fenn> "dear government readers, we should set up a super duper world government because, as we all know, governments are good" is not a fallacy? 16:45 < jrayhawk> it is neither true nor false 16:45 < fenn> fallacies are neither true nor false as well 16:46 < fenn> it's simply a flawed form of logic 16:46 < jrayhawk> i mean, it's not even a logical proposition 16:46 < fenn> guh whatever 16:48 < jrayhawk> i guess you could frame it as begging the question, but that's more of a lemma than a fallacy 16:48 < jrayhawk> er, 16:48 < jrayhawk> a premise 16:48 < jrayhawk> moreso a premise than a fallacy 16:48 < fenn> it's not quite the same, because the super duper government is not the same government as the existing ones 16:48 < jrayhawk> all logical systems rest on premises 16:51 < jrayhawk> Claiming that "predicting future value based on past value" is fallacious is... uh... 16:52 < jrayhawk> maybe there's a "more is better" fallacy that could be invoked 16:52 < fenn> i just meant it's not "begging the question" 16:53 < jrayhawk> well, the problem is that you're basically attacking induction itself 16:54 < fenn> an argument that relies so strongly on the audience's priors is a weak argument at best 16:54 < jrayhawk> lol 16:55 < fenn> sure, there are problems with induction, but i'm not complaining about that 16:59 < fenn> this makes me experience philosophical dyslexia... "Heisenberg discussed the possibility of a runaway chain reaction with Hitler and this possibility may have further dampened Hitler's enthusiasm for pursuing the bomb" 17:01 < jrayhawk> that sort of thing was considered "jew science" 17:01 < jrayhawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik 17:02 < fenn> if the nazis weren't so stark raving mad we'd all be speaking german now 17:02 < fenn> well, more likely we'd be dead, but yeah 17:02 < jrayhawk> they arguably aren't stark raving mad anymore and they have mostly taken over the EU 17:03 < jrayhawk> so you're not wrong 17:03 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:06 < fenn> i'll lump in abandoning nuclear power for the sake of "green energy" with the same ideologically motivated totalitarian mindset 17:08 < fenn> it's not nearly as bad. sorry, i'm not so good at coming up with the correct words 17:09 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 < fenn> https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2019/07/10/predictable-identities-13-totalizing-ideologies/ 17:35 < jrayhawk> https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/08/23/after-48-years-democrats-endorse-nuclear-energy-in-platform/ on the plus side, there's some change, there 20:48 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Fri Aug 28 00:00:01 2020