--- Log opened Sat Aug 29 00:00:02 2020
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03:09 < archels> > If you bombard earth with photons long enough, it will emit a Tesla.
03:20 < archels> kanzure: thanks for the transcript
03:20 < archels> so apparently Musk is trying to recruit people as well as turn this into a commercial product
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05:37 < fenn> so, human brains for efficient computation was literally the plot of the matrix
05:38 < fenn> has photonic computation (e.g. lightmatter) already surpassed human brain efficiency?
05:38 < fenn> i'm not really sure what are the units to compare
05:40 < darsie> J per and/or/xor?
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05:42 < darsie> J/Ghash?
05:45 < darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle
05:48 < archels> good luck estimating the computational capacity of the human brain
05:48 < archels> flops? mips? meaningless
05:49 < fenn> oh jesus christ. they deleted the wikipedia article on theodore berger
05:50 < fenn> three times is enemy action
05:58 < fenn> how dare they write articles about project orion scientists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Moestown/Archive
05:58 < fenn> banninate! banninate!
06:05 < archels> apparently even the talk page is reset/deleted when an article is deleted? doesn't seem very conducive to discussion
06:07 < fenn> they just mass deleted all pages created by a particular user
06:07 < fenn> and accounts suspected of being sockpuppets of that user, based on "behavior"
06:08 < fenn> this all happened relatively recently (may 2020 ish) so i'm surprised the article hadn't existed for many years before that
06:08 < archels> can't even see now what the article looked like before deletion. useless
06:10 < fenn> there's a cached copy of the first paragraph: "Theodore W. Berger is the David Packard Professor of Engineering, Professor of Biomedical Engineering and Neurobiology, and Director of the Center for Neural Engineering at the University of Southern California. He's currently working to create a "memory prosthetic" in the form of a chip that would be implanted in the hippocampus. His work could
06:10 < fenn> benefit people with traumatic brain injuries, Alzheimer's, dementia, and other types of memory problems."
06:17 < fenn> anyway, i was trying to find out of berger was literally working at neuralink or not
06:17 < fenn> apparently he's cheif science officer at Kernel, a competing (?) brain interface startup
06:21 < fenn> huh weird
06:21 < fenn> "Hodak told reporters he was originally skeptical about the potential of technologies in development by Neuralink, but was convinced of the companies potential by Elon Musk."
06:24 < kanzure> lsneff: computronium does not usually refer to human brain matter. more like grey goo.
06:25 < kanzure> (recognizing that human brain matter can be both described as "grey" and "goo"....)
06:39 < kanzure> fenn: kernel was the one marblestone was associated with
06:55 < archels> kernel.co?
06:56 < archels> only zombie brains are grey, kanzure. hopefully ours is a healthy pink with red highlights
07:02 < bsm117532> re: computationally efficient forms of matter. Light (by itself) is not particularly good for computation, because it does not interact with itself. You have to give it a medium with which to interact, which generally implies a lot of atoms. (atom traps, optical molasses, etc).
07:04 < bsm117532> A single-atom transistor is probably the most computationally efficient on a mass basis (not energy consumption).
07:04 < bsm117532> (note I believe quantum computers are fundamentally untenable, so insert your own mumbo jumbo about that)
07:05 < bsm117532> https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9908043
07:05 < archels> untenable in what way?
07:05 < bsm117532> https://quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/12815/energy-cost-of-quantum-computation
07:06 < archels> probably Anders Sandberg and Nick Bostrom have written about the physics of computation
07:08 < bsm117532> Basically a quantum computer is also an effective system with an effective temperature roughly exp(-<qbits>) and can be viewed as a cooling/heat problem. Good luck.
07:09 < archels> so the more qbits you have, the closer the operating temperature needs to be to 0 K to get the same level of noise/error?
07:11 < fenn> disappointed that musk pivoted to "medical device" for vague unspecified neurological problems, rather than "consumer device" to expand your bandwidth and effectiveness
07:12 < fenn> i guess the transhumanist talent pool isn't big enough
07:16 < bsm117532> archels: yes basically. "Error correction" can be viewed as lowering an effective temperature for an effective system, and you can use that to calculate energy costs.
07:17 < bsm117532> fenn: he's trying to appeal to a mass audience. "consumer device" sounds crazy to most.
07:17 < fenn> supposedly the purpose of the demo was recruiting. that's not a "mass audience"
07:18 < bsm117532> Well, he knew full well that this would be all over the news too.
07:18 < fenn> that hasn't stopped him from doing crazy stuff before
07:18 < bsm117532> I'd still say this is pretty "crazy" through the lens of mass media ;-)
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07:32 < archels> bsm117532: I don't really know much of anything about quantum computing, but as an engineer would also want to look at the constant in front of the expression exp(-qbits)
07:33 < archels> the multiplicative constant, that is. C * exp(-qbits)
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08:00 < bsm117532> C = ambient temperature.
08:17 < kanzure> hmm "Almost 300 nights a year, a lightning storm rages in a small part of Venezuela"
08:50 < lsneff> Sounds like something from some campy scifi movie. "what's alien artifact is buried there," that kind of thing
08:59 < fenn> i saw it on stargate SG-1
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10:16 < kanzure> torment of tantalus?
10:24 < lsneff> .t https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/i-thought-i-would-have-accomplished-a-lot-more-today-and-also-by-the-time-i-was-thirty-five
10:24 < saxo> I Thought I Would Have Accomplished a Lot More Today and Also by the Time I Was Thirty-Five | The New Yorker
10:26 < fenn> i was thinking of https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Evolution,_Part_1 but torment of tantalus could work too
10:27 < fenn> lsneff that's not humor it's just depressing
10:28 < fenn> The New Yorker Considered Harmful
10:29 < lsneff> Hey, it's depressing if you're 35. I still have plenty of time to do something of importance before then.
10:29 < fenn> lol keep thinking that
10:30 < fenn> i remember when 18 was an adult
10:31 < lsneff> Haha, I'm not blind to the likelyhood that I'll be in exactly the same straits in 14 years
11:29 < juri_> I'm 41 now. backup and restore required.
12:23 < darsie> I'm 1.5 Gs old now.
12:23 < darsie> 1.6 coming near.
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19:21 < lsneff> I must be the youngest one here then. Indoctrination efforts not working well, I guess
19:28 < L29Ah> i guess people generally face transhumanism when they witness their own frailty and mortality, and those aren't abundant in kids
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20:23 < lsneff> Indeed, I suppose that's true
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22:18 < nmz787> it must be nice being an adult and not having  "frailty and mortality" in some first hand or even existential way (i.e. empathy)
22:22 < nmz787> lsneff: well, I'm 33 and don't have enough time to be bored
22:23 < nmz787> that's sort of my reasoning for transhumanism, or maybe also a result of my quest for transhumanistic goals
22:24 < nmz787> like, I was probably 6 or 8 the first time I cut my own hair and didn't get caught through the act to be able to finish by myself
22:24 < nmz787> and I just wished I had another pair of eye, or like, take control of some other human body and stand behind me and cut my own hair by proxy/avatar
22:25 < nmz787> an extra pair of double-jointed arms that had hands with eyes could work too I guess
22:27 < nmz787> I was 6 the first (and only) time I saw someone get kicked in the face by a horse
22:27 < nmz787> that definitely gave me the foresight of teeth not growing back being super lame
22:27 < nmz787> or forethought
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--- Log closed Sun Aug 30 00:00:03 2020