--- Log opened Tue Sep 15 00:00:19 2020
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02:04 < nmz787> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_(1998_American_film)
02:04 < nmz787> "The film tells the story of a highly skilled soldier defying his commanders and facing a relentless and brutal genetically-enhanced rival soldier. "
02:07 < nmz787> "Soldier was written by David Peoples, who co-wrote the script for Blade Runner. Soldier is considered to be a "spin-off sidequel"-spiritual successor to Blade Runner, seeing both films as existing in a shared fictional universe."
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02:08 < juri_> I remember that. I'm not sure it was worth remembering.
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03:00 < L29Ah> i recommend Малыш и Карлсон
03:01 < L29Ah> it's a soviet cartoon about a regular boy who meets an airborne cyborg w/ a propeller attached to his back
03:24 < adlai> TMA: assasination markets fix capitalism
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03:25 < adlai> ensuring that assassination markets do not devolve into mere insurance fraud spolympics is left as an exercise to the assassins
03:27  * adlai wonders whether "Eeyoreoid" is a reference to winnie the pooh's donkey friend?
03:29 < adlai> Allure[m]: no; and does this count as a tag, or does it have to not include the [m] suffix?
03:30 < adlai> do y'all bya'llogists have any news about epidemiology rather than papers covered in pasteurized academic snot?
03:31 < adlai> e.g., "twenty out of three hundred territories, as delineated by the world health organization, have passed herd immunity metric suchandsuch"
03:32  * adlai considers most other 'news' indistinguishable from spam advertising sunblock with enough spf to kill a solar horse
03:36 < TMA> adlai: last time I checked it relied on a central authority to release the funds to the assassin, which is a single point of failure
03:36 < TMA> (the evaluator of the claim was a human)
03:40 < TMA> adlai: it is. I was called eeyoore a few moments before. I do not claim identity, just superficial similarity to the most salient optimism-expressing traits, hence mere -oid
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03:47 < adlai> there are multiple ways to design such a market. if the topic interests you, it is wise to study beyond just reading one plaintext bloviation, and possibly even beyond just watching one movie about hypothetical consequences and collateral damage.
03:48 < adlai> it is also quite easy to just read about the most notable suspected commissioned assassinations, although these are often quite editorialized; e.g., read Umberto Eco's novel, "Baudolino", to see how quickly false positives appear.
03:50 < adlai> as for the less morbid topic: it appears that the graphic artists employed by the world health organization are getting better at presenting information in PDFs, although I still see no link for "the numbers, just the numbers, and only the numbers, please"
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03:51  * adlai almost began writing a numbers-from-pdf scraper, half a year ago, and dedicating it to the marked graves of dead epidemiologists.
03:54 < adlai> they still appear to have never solicited the opinions of any engineers regarding the plausibly unreadability of their charts. oh well, sic transit vires numerorum.
04:05 < adlai> I do like how their recent printable epi-update-5.pdf has both the less-populous sovereigns of EMRO, and the more-diagnosed sovereigns of EURO, on the same page, with the occupied palestinian territory wedged in between; quite a metaphor for the 20th century mess.
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04:06 < adlai> still no "negative results" column, although that is probably an embarassing metric for the people who donate tests!
04:09 < L29Ah> wasn't there a kind of decentralized prediction markets with selectable trustees with earnable reputation?
04:09 < L29Ah> inb4 sybil
04:10 < adlai> that just sounds like mortuaries with extra steps
04:15  * adlai is slightly puzzled by the WHO's allocations between the "western pacific" and "southeast asia" regions, although the original designations probably depended on international freight routes
04:18 < adlai> the new weekly "operational updates" are cute, although I think I need a "Master of Business Administration" to parse the buzzwords.
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07:28 < kanzure> GE's portable ultrasound thing is now $3500 instead of $7000
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11:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: thoughts on that COVID19 writeup?
11:53 < yashgaroth> which, the one from the Institute of Fuck the PRC? I mean at least they're being honest with their affiliation; I haven't bothered to read the paper but I doubt it breaks any new ground beyond eg the one from that SENS researcher who did a 100-page blog post about the same thing
11:54 < yashgaroth> it's likely much more believable than the ones that came out a few months ago claiming the virus wasn't engineered because of [vague circumstantial evidence], but it's not like we'll ever know the truth to a certainty
11:55 < Urchin[emacs]> engineering this virus would be a substantial show of incompetence, as it is pretty much useless for anything
11:58 < yashgaroth> well, we don't know if it was engineered or just cultivated in vitro, which could have similar mutating effects on a wild-type coronavirus, or whether it was still a work-in-progress and someone sold a dead lab animal for some spare cash
12:00 < yashgaroth> even if some mainland scientist "escapes" from the PRC and "reveals" data showing that the wuhan lab had a Division of Shitty Bioweapons, truth has become so subjective that it won't convince most people who weren't convinced already
12:00 < kanzure> link to the SENS one?
12:01 < yashgaroth> fuck if I can remember, it was some russian guy on a medium post or something? posted here a while ago
12:02 < Urchin[emacs]> in any case, it's completely irrelevant to the problem of actually dealing with the virus
12:02 < yashgaroth> that too
12:04 < Urchin[emacs]> I've mostly tuned out worthless propagandists
12:18 < yashgaroth> aha here it was https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748
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12:32 < lsneff> I didn't get shut down in a cold email to a lab pi! I'm proud of myself 😊
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15:27 < jrayhawk> what problem? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076020302764?via%3Dihub
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17:04 < lsneff> So, when am I going to be able to get a full copy of the internet archive on a DNA drive?
17:39 < L29Ah> but dna is a shitty storage
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18:56 < lsneff> It's very dense storage
19:02 < L29Ah> who cares if it can't hold data intact
19:13 < kanzure> dna has a half life of like 500 years
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19:24 < L29Ah> how do you define half-life?
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20:03 < lsneff> When half of it can no longer be read.
20:04 < lsneff> So, through compression and error correcting codes, you can maintain data integrity for an arbitrary lifetime.
20:05 < L29Ah> λ> 1 / (500 * 365 * 24 * 3600 / 8e12)
20:05 < L29Ah> 507.35667174023337
20:06 < L29Ah> so for every terabyte 507 bits are lost every second
20:06 < L29Ah> this is so much worse than current HDDs
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20:06 < kanzure>  that's 500 years at room temperature
20:08 < kanzure> from a random press release: "Also, with a standard-sized DNA fragment calculated half-life of 50,000 years when stored at 25°C in a DNAshell, data can be preserved for millennia"
20:08 < L29Ah> oh, standard-sized DNA fragment!
20:09 < L29Ah> so you need to pick it somehow from your chunk of polymer first
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20:09 < L29Ah> w/o breaking
20:09 < L29Ah> i think all the stuff about using DNA as data storage is just a joke
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20:10 < lsneff> I don't really know too much about this, but is it possible to do distributed searching through the DNA fragments with some sort of custom protein or something similar?
20:10 < L29Ah> there's diamond that you can ablate arbitrarily and then read via the usual optics after all
20:11 < L29Ah> also spintronics
20:11 < L29Ah> makes so much more sense than huge and fragile organic molecules
20:14 < L29Ah> and if we're talking abstract storage densities of bulk material, the information density of hdd platter surface material is huge as well
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21:28 < kanzure> lsneff: you can search through dna with primers
22:43 < nmz787> L29Ah: half-life of DNA is much longer than HDD or Flash. You wouldn't be plucking it physically, it'd be electrical, some sort of electrophoresis or electroosmosis
22:43 < nmz787> lsneff: yes distributed search has been shown in a certain architecture
22:44 < L29Ah> nmz787: HDD doesn't lose a single bit for years
22:44 < nmz787> L29Ah: I work for norsam.com so have dabbled in the writing bits to diamond/hard stuff
22:44 < L29Ah> 07:28:24]<kanzure> lsneff: you can search through dna with primers
22:44 < L29Ah> probably you meant "through dilute DNA solutions"
22:44 < nmz787> doesn't have to be dilute
22:45 < nmz787> you can enrich or dilute at will, with the right instrument
22:45 < L29Ah> sure it has to be dilute, otherwise your chaotic attempts at binding would be much rarer if ever
22:46 < nmz787> dilute is a relative term, I guess
22:46 < L29Ah> yes, dilute compared to the theoretical information density lsneff was refering to
22:46 < L29Ah> o
22:46 < nmz787> and I'm pretty sure the reaction would actually be faster if the concentration was higher
22:46 < nmz787> you don't really get oligos bumping another off, with enough primer overlap
22:47 < nmz787> strand invasion has a set of contraints it works within
22:47 < nmz787> L29Ah: https://www.nature.com/articles/nmat4594
22:47 < nmz787> lsneff: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.25.115477v1
22:48 < L29Ah> no doi detected, dunno what to shove into sci-hub
22:48 < L29Ah> oh found it
22:52 < lsneff> L29Ah: good catch on that paper, will look at it later
22:54 < L29Ah> it seems the review tries to bullshit me; probably i should refrain from producing any speculations either
22:56 < nmz787> ok, the main author is only the chief scientist of the Semiconductor Research Corporation, who've been leading the semiconductor (including storage and RAM) industry for like 40 years
--- Log closed Wed Sep 16 00:00:20 2020