--- Log opened Wed Sep 23 00:00:26 2020
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02:35 < L29Ah> https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/EmDrive1.jpg
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07:09 < lsneff> .t https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/space/science/lattice-confinement-fusion/
07:09 < saxo> Sorry, t took too long
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12:12 < lsneff> https://charted.space/notes/Rotating%20Neon%20Pump.mp4
12:39 < fenn> lsneff: is that your program?
12:40 < lsneff> fenn: yes
12:40 < fenn> am i imagining it or is the back plate actually sort of curved/puckered?
12:41 < lsneff> the pdb is from the IMM website
12:41 < lsneff> I think it is curved, but I'm not entirely sure. It could be a rendering artifact.
12:42 < fenn> anyway, cool. it's good to see progress
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12:46 < lsneff> Thanks. I decided to toss out what I had, and restart the project on Sunday.
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13:31 < lsneff> .t https://knowm.org/memristor-crossbars-as-easy-as-raspberry-pi/
13:31 < saxo> Memristor Crossbars as Easy as Raspberry Pi – Knowm.org
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18:46 < fenn> https://hdr-astrophotography.com/tilt-shift-astrophotography/
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18:57 < lsneff> .t https://www.steveliu.co/memex
18:57 < saxo> Memex — STEVE LIU
19:04 < fenn> step 1: automatically archive all data that goes through your web browser
19:05 < lsneff> Basically yes
19:05 < lsneff> Storage is so cheap, you could safe a lifetime of browser data on a phone
19:05 < lsneff> *save
19:10 < fenn> i feel obligated to mention marc carranza http://quantifiedself.com/blog/the-social-memex/
19:11 < fenn> mark carranza
19:12 < fenn> he's using foxpro for dos
19:13 < lsneff> Dos?!
19:16 < fenn> carranza had some sort of associative search thingy that displayed related entries to him while he entered data
19:16 < fenn> it looked very nice to use because everything was so responsive
19:17 < fenn> none of the "modern" press-a-key-and-wait-for-the-computer interface catastrophe
19:17 < fenn> so what if it's monochrome, it's just text
19:18 < fenn> i don't think there are any photos of it
19:19 < fenn> he didn't know what data would be displayed, and it could be personal or embarrassing for himself or others
19:20 < fenn> there were more possible associations than could be shown on screen so it just displayed 10 at random
19:20 < fenn> something like that
19:26 < fenn> kanzure has a worse imitation of this as a non-interactive yaml file
19:26 < fenn> for keeping track of conversations and topics
19:27 < fenn> anyway carranza's MX is somewhere between a queryable database and spaced repetition memorization software e.g. anki
19:28 < lsneff> Yeah, that does sound difficult to implement as a terminal app
19:28 < lsneff> *doesn't
19:28 < fenn> there's a lot of metadata that gets lost when recording webpages you looked at, like "why did i look at this" or "how did i get here" that should be answerable with a real implementation of bush's memex
19:29 < fenn> sometimes there is no answer though
19:29 < lsneff> You can record history along with a webpage
19:29 < lsneff> That gets you part way
19:29 < fenn> right
19:29 < fenn> it's tough to go back and extract that from the context
19:29 < fenn> certainly a computer will have a hard time of it
19:30 < lsneff> And with an extension, you can actually just say, here's the link you clicked on to go to that page and where that link is on that page
19:30 < lsneff> So, that's basically all you need I think
19:30 < fenn> no it really is not
19:31 < lsneff> Yeah, I guess it's not the whole story
19:31 < fenn> while an accurate description of what happened in the physical world at large, it doesn't capture WHY you clicked on the link
19:32 < fenn> and it takes some extra effort and dedication to answer why you did everything
19:33 < fenn> i get stuck in a lot of rabbit holes for really random and indirect reasons, often involving a google image search
19:33 < lsneff> A lot of the time, I start by googling stuff, pulling the query out and pasting it at the top of the navigation stack there would be a start for me
19:34 < fenn> also there are links that occur outside of the computer, like if you are reading some text and think "what does that word mean" and then google the word
19:34 < lsneff> If only everything were interoperable!
19:34 < fenn> or one degree remote from that, where you read some text and then this reminds you of something and that reminds you of something and then you google that
19:35 < fenn> there's just no way the computer will be able to deduce two associations in a row
19:35 < lsneff> Ideally, your computer could keep track of when you're reading a book and what pages and whatnot, and then cross reference thr timestamp with other things
19:35 < fenn> some people just do screenshots at regular intervals
19:37 < lsneff> I wonder if I could pull data from the pdf reader on my laptop every minute or something and record the timestamp and scroll location along with the browser navigation stack
19:37 < lsneff> There really should be an ecosystem of tools that can work together to do all this
19:38 < fenn> webpage urls are all fucked up now
19:39 < fenn> it would have been easy to do in 2005
19:40 < lsneff> You don't need to record urls, you can mirror the entire webpage
19:40 < fenn> probably related to my obsessive bookmarking back then
19:41 < fenn> so you mirror the state of the page every time anything happens?
19:41 < lsneff> Why not?
19:41 < fenn> it's awful, that's why
19:41 < lsneff> Well, everytime you access it
19:41 < lsneff> It's necessary, given that the internet isn't content linked.
19:41 < fenn> what's 'content linked' mean?
19:42 < fenn> like how a URL is not a URI?
19:42 < lsneff> Like, links point to whatever that server wants it to be, rather than a hash
19:43 < lsneff> Plus, mirroring everything means your entire knowledge graph is instantly accessible
19:43 < fenn> i'm just complaining about how pages will mutate themselves and alter the page history and other bad stuff
19:43 < lsneff> Oh, I got you, misunderstood sorry
19:43 < fenn> there's not even an attempt at a 1:1 correspondence between a URL and what is being displayed
19:44 < fenn> it used to be that each time you clicked on a page, the url would change, so you could click back and it would undo that operation (assuming no side effects)
19:44 < fenn> there was a neat list of urls you had visited that represented all your actions and what you saw
19:45 < lsneff> Generally, they still do
19:45 < lsneff> But I agree, the web is badly designed
19:45 < lsneff> But it's all we got
19:46 < fenn> the web was designed well, but then people started relying on bugs in implementation, and browsers started supporting bug-for-bug compatibility
19:46 < fenn> and javascript, well, that's a can of worms
19:47 < lsneff> unpopular opinion: I like that applications can run in the browser
19:47 < fenn> interesting definiton of unpopular
19:47 < fenn> i hear this from literally everyone under 30
19:48 < fenn> i just wish there were some kind of "opt out"
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19:49 < fenn> most javascript has nothing to do with applications anyway
19:49 < fenn> do you remember java applets?
19:50 < lsneff> I do
19:51 < lsneff> There's a website with a bunch of small simulations that a lot of physics classes use (phet), and all their simulations are Java applets
19:51 < lsneff> But they're emulating them in Javascript
19:51 < fenn> falstad.com had a bunch of them
19:52 < lsneff> They're using cheerpj, which recompiles Java applets to js
19:52 < lsneff> It really struck me the first time I saw it
19:53 < fenn> i never understood how javascript managed to attain built-into-the-browser status but java remained a plugin
19:53 < lsneff> It seems pretty obvious to me, even if javascript is a terrible language
19:54 < lsneff> Despite ~20 years, the Java applet runtimes continued to have security issues
19:54 < lsneff> Like, rce security issues
19:54 < fenn> oh yeah right, that's the reason, security
19:54 < fenn> jeez
19:54 < lsneff> Well, hey, that was the reason
19:54 < lsneff> Js breaks a different kind of security
19:55 < lsneff> I'd much prefer that my web use gets tracked, than someone breaking the browser sandbox
19:55 < fenn> "in 1995, Netscape decided to add a scripting language to Navigator. They pursued two routes to achieve this: collaborating with Sun Microsystems to embed the Java programming language, while also hiring Brendan Eich to embed the Scheme language"
19:56 < lsneff> Scheme would've been nice
19:58 < lsneff> The atomcad app will be able to run in a browser, btw
19:59 < fenn> that has a way of turning into a requirement
20:00 < lsneff> It's a little limiting, but the restrictions are easy to circumvent with conditional compilation.
20:00 < fenn> well wikipedia didn't really answer my js-vs-java question
20:01 < lsneff> I'll read up on it as well to see if my understanding of the js vs. java thing is wrong.
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23:17 < ptrcmd> and scheme..became javascript
23:18 < fenn> something like that
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 24 00:00:27 2020