--- Log opened Fri Oct 02 00:00:35 2020
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09:16 < lsneff> I think I’ll have to embed a scripting language into atomcad for procedural generation of molecules/parts.
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09:32 < L29Ah> openatomscad
09:33 < L29Ah> i hope the language will be haskell
09:34 < Llamamoe> Eww Haskell :F
09:37 < L29Ah> well at least not lua or lisp plz!
09:38 < lsneff> I'm actually thinking wasm
09:38 < L29Ah> but it's not a language
09:38 < lsneff> The plugin writer can ship whatever runtime or compiler they want with it.
09:38 < L29Ah> sounds interesting though
09:38 < L29Ah> why not llvm?
09:39 < lsneff> Too large, slow, not portable, not enough languages target it
09:39 < lsneff> Also, wasm lets it run on thr web
09:39 < L29Ah> > too large
09:39 < L29Ah> compared to what?
09:40 < L29Ah> > slow
09:40 < L29Ah> ditto
09:40 < L29Ah> > not portable
09:40 < L29Ah> more portable than wasm
09:40 < L29Ah> > not enough languages target it
09:40 < L29Ah> more than wasm in fact
09:42 < lsneff> Including a statically linked llvm in a binary would probably quadruple its size.
09:42 < L29Ah> s/on the web/in a browser/ that's generally a poor idea for a cad
09:42 < lsneff> The llvm compiler itself is slower than a wasm runtime would be.
09:42 < lsneff> Llvm ir is definitely less portable than wasm.
09:42 < lsneff> It's not architecture independent.
09:43 < L29Ah> who cares of a few megabytes of binary size?
09:43 < L29Ah> > The llvm compiler itself is slower than a wasm runtime would be.
09:43 < L29Ah> what
09:43 < lsneff> Llvm would add at least 50 mb, if my experiences from writing webassembly runtimes still fitm
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09:44 < L29Ah> comparing compilers w/ interpreters isn't fair
09:44 < L29Ah> interpreters are slow af
09:44 < lsneff> Compiling from llvm ir (which I assume you meant) to machine code is slower than compiling wasm to machine code.
09:44 < L29Ah> huh!?
09:44 < L29Ah> now that's strange af, i gotta read more about wasm
09:44 < lsneff> Wasm is designed to be compiled very quickly
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09:48 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: What do you have against Lua? Other than it being a dynamically typed lang
09:49 < L29Ah> extremely simple and awkward
09:49 < L29Ah> like arrays starting from 1
09:49 < L29Ah> afair it's not even dynamically typed, but stringly typed
09:50 < L29Ah> wasm is certainly a better option
09:54 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: Yeah but it's really flexible, I adore tables and metatables
09:54 < Llamamoe> And arrays starting from 1 is a nonissue
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09:54 < Llamamoe> It's a scripting language and in high-level code, you need fewer +-1s with 1-based indexing
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09:58 < L29Ah> in high-level code i prefer to work with higher order functions or AT LEAST iterators, no such things in lua
10:00 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: Both are possible, they're not in there because of Lua's purposeful minimalism
10:00 < Llamamoe> You can trivially implement both
10:00 < Llamamoe> Although neither is super efficient, even in LuaJIT, unfortunately
10:03 < docl> sounds like you guys might hate clasp, as it's common lisp and llvm based. the lead dev is doing interesting stuff with spiroligomers using it though.
10:04 < lsneff> Good lead-in there, docl
10:05 < docl> :)
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10:40 < lsneff> Also, trying to figure out how to figure out possible bond sites on molecules.
10:46 < L29Ah> ##chemistry
10:49 < juri__> lsneff: good luck with your cad system, and thanks. :)[
10:50 < juri__> ... If you used haskell, you could just lift the entire openscad-like engine from ImplicitCAD. it's very modular. i use it without the object definition functions for command line argument handling in HSlice. :)
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11:15 < lsneff> Compile it to webassembly and sure :)
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11:19 < juri_> it's haskell. compile it to whatever. :)
11:21 < juri_> but seriously, it's nice not being the only crazy cad engine author around here. i wish you all of the luck, and success.
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11:32 < lsneff> juri_: and you as well :)
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12:46 < lsneff> juri_: how long have you been working on implicitcad?
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20:07 < fenn> is there a reason to think the UVC won't kill the skin tissue around the device? http://www.bioopticsworld.com/biophotonics-tools/article/16433977/faruvc-light-could-halt-infections-in-skinpenetrating-medical-devices
20:08 < fenn> "This study demonstrates that far-UVC light emitted from a laser and delivered using an optical diffuser is an effective tool to kill MRSA in vitro. ... given the lack of harmful biological effects with far-UVC, it is an attractive option for disinfection within wounds." eh?
20:09 < fenn> i guess this would at least plausibly justify the excessive use of glowing cyan implants in cyberpunk and science fiction art
20:13 < fenn> "recent work has shown that irradiation of an open wound, which did not have a protective layer of stratum corneum, with 222 nm light did not induce DNA damage in targeted cells while still showing bactericidal control"
20:13 < fenn> .title https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202275
20:13 < saxo> Effect of far ultraviolet light emitted from an optical diffuser on methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus in vitro
20:14 < fenn> .title https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jphotobiol.2017.10.030
20:14 < saxo> Redirecting
20:15 < fenn> "disinfection and healing effects of 222nm UVC light on MRSA infection in mouse wounds"
20:48 < jrayhawk> huh
20:48 < jrayhawk> i wonder what the mechanism is
20:57 < fenn> apparently 222nm light is absorbed in the cytosol and never makes it to the nucleus, but because bacteria are much smaller, it causes dna damage in bacterial cells
20:58 < fenn> bacteria have no nucleus
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22:30 < nmz787> fenn: I heard something like your last two sentences a few months back, I don't recall if it was 222nm, but it sounds like the right ballpark
22:31 < nmz787> lsneff: possible bonding sites is usually electron density related, I think
--- Log closed Sat Oct 03 00:00:36 2020