--- Log opened Tue Oct 20 00:00:52 2020
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03:38 < fltrz> does sci-hub selectively not mirror Chinese journalss? I can't get a hold of http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-QHXB908.011.htm
03:57 < L29Ah> it doesn't even connect from here
03:57 < fltrz> ?
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03:57 < fltrz> from CIA HQ?
03:58 < fltrz> :)
03:58 < L29Ah> tracepath suggests that chinanet drops my packages
03:58 < L29Ah> from my home isp
03:59 < fltrz> strange, that URL works for me, and it seems I can download the PDF for free, but only if I install the app, which I downloaded but am quite hesitant to install
03:59 < fltrz> I do have a sacrificial smartphone for "orgasm contractions" porn
04:00 < fltrz> but I dont want micro EDM porn to be mixed in the suggestions... or at least I don't think I do yet
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07:08 < kanzure> fltrz: use an android emulator to install the app
07:09 < kanzure> lsneff: make your other hobby programming
07:12 < lsneff> kanzure: already did that, doesn't help
07:13 < lsneff> also, someone build a diy stm a few years ago: https://dberard.com/home-built-stm/
07:13 < lsneff> I wonder if anyone has built a diy afm
07:14 < lsneff> Looks like people have, but they don't seem to actual measure down to the atomic level
07:17 < fltrz> is it possible to image acoustic waves (schlieren photography?)? fine resolutions should be possible with lower wave speed, the problem with VIS optical waves is the speed of light causes long wavelengths
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07:18 < fltrz> generating high frequency accoustic waves should be easy with laser pulses in an absorptive medium / target (black target, or perhaps ink in water)
07:19 < fltrz> then one would also need the accoustic equivalent of a lens I assume
07:25 < lsneff> A low-cost AFM might actually be a good project.
07:28 < fltrz> I think it's mostly not happening because of expensive tips
07:28 < fltrz> I'd really prefer full view over a scanning method
07:30 < fltrz> but without the X-rays and vacuum for electron microscopes
07:39 < lsneff> An exciting part of AFM is the ability to manipulate the surface.
07:39 < lsneff> The person who made the diy STM made an atomically precise tip
07:42 < lsneff> Or rather, an atomically-sharp tip
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07:59 < fltrz> I'm not sure the same tip would word for AFM, since for STM the tunneling current decays exponentially so if the roundness is tight enough, the closes atom is the one that conducts the most
08:01 < fltrz> a similar effect may be at play with AFM, but I'd expect something more like a lennard jones potential
08:02 < fltrz> I think tips will crash more regularly with AFM, because with STM you can set a higher Z and see a coarser image from a distance and slowly approach while monitoring the tunneling current
08:04 < lsneff> Ah, I see.
08:04 < lsneff> It looks like they're usually made through etching.
08:05 < fltrz> perhaps one could do AFM with a dust particle trapped in a laser beam / focal point?
08:06 < fltrz> creating dust particles is relatively easy, like how they test filtration efficiency of masks: dissolve salt at known concentration, then spray droplets of characteristic size, let droplets evaporate, tiny salt crystals remain
08:07 < fltrz> I think the laser trapped particle would be hard as you can't predict the reflective properties of the sample
08:08 < fltrz> perhaps a larger "particle" made from aerogel
08:13 < fltrz> lsneff, I don't know how sharp crystal oscillators (quartz tuning forks) are, perhaps they could be re-purposed as AFM tips (and transducer in one)
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08:33 < fltrz> thats an interesting thought experiment: mount an opened crystal oscillator and a sharp object on each half of a vise, attach a dip meter to the crystal oscillator, with the dip meter at the resonant frequency in open air, and then slowly approach the needle to a corner of the oscillator while monitoring the signal
08:33 < fltrz> perhaps the linear drive train from an old CD-ROM player would be more suitable
08:36 < fltrz> you'd see peaks and dips alternating  as the surface progresses acoustic wavelengths from the resonator
08:37 < Llamamoe> I am continuously amazed how vehemently people dislike 1-based indexing, when it took me a week to become more comfortable with 1-based than I've ever gotten with 0-based
08:37 < Llamamoe> I have never stopped committing off-by-ones with 0-based, even after half a decade of programming, while with 1-based, after a week my off-by-one error rate dropped to essentially none.
08:44 < L29Ah> i am continuously amazed how people still make off-by-one errors despite having iterators and higher order functions to avoid dealing with indexes directly
08:45 < docl> IMO the fact that e.g. 1000 has 4 chars is misleading. you can sorta count the zeros but that adds another step and doesn't work when it's a number like 1234, so you really do this subtract by 1 thing. a more intuitive representation would be like zzz where each z is x^10
08:47 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: That's also part of why I like 1-based so much, with iterators, higher order functions, etc. you virtually never need to deal with offsets, and for everything else, 1-based is more intuitive. No half-open ranges, intuitive counting, blablabla
08:52 < lsneff> Having grown up on low level programming, 1-based indexing irks me to no end.
08:53 < Llamamoe> I used to hate 1-based too, but then I tried it after 5 years of 0-based and it came to me far more naturally than 0-based was after all those years
08:55 < kanzure> lsneff: how about a CAD project?
08:59 < lsneff> Hey, don't make fun of me
09:20 < fltrz> ugh, looking up (i.e. hoarding binge mode) micro EDM papers and their power supplies and control circuits, ... this paper https://www.rroij.com/open-access/study-of-pulsed-dc-power-supply-parametersfor-microedm.php?aid=43980 then just goes off to claim Q=1/2 C * V ^ 2 .. and literally says in words too Q = charge...
09:21 < fltrz> seems like I'd be better off designing the power supply in a mental vacuum
09:22 < fltrz> "don't reinvent the wheel" vs "here smear this nonsense over your mind"
10:04 < juri_> lsneff: join my cad project! :P
10:05 < fltrz> android and its filesystem are so dumb, when I ask it to move a file within the same filesystem, it actually copys stuff around instead of a few kilobytes at the filesystem level
10:05 < juri_> I have just about completed a move from linear algebra to projective geometric algebra.
10:41 < L29Ah> juri_: does it print benchy? :3
10:47 < fltrz> and again a DOI for an english language but Chinese origin article that sci-hub doesn't mirror: 10.3969/j.issn.1006-7043.201410059
10:48 < fltrz> next time sci-hub pops up on ycombinator and a maintainer pops up, we have to prod around a bit about why
10:48 < juri_> L29Ah: still no support structures yet. :P
11:06 < lsneff> Actually, I am going to try this. I'm going to try to make a low-cost AFM. Think of it as the reprap project of naive nano manipulation.
11:13 < fltrz> lsneff, I thick STM can also manipulate atoms
11:42 < fenn> the most annoying thing about physics and engineering papers is when they dump equations with a bunch of undefined variables on you, and expect you to magically know what all the letters mean
11:42 < fenn> explaining Q = charge should be standard practice
11:44 < lsneff> The tip is going to be the most difficult part. I'll probably just have to buy them
11:45 < fenn> you make tips by suspending a tungsten wire in an alkaline soap bubble. over a few days the tungsten is etched away by the caustic solution and eventually breaks off under the force of gravity, leaving a very narrow and fractured tip
11:46 < fenn> you can make lower quality tips by simply yanking on tungsten wire with a pair of pliers
11:46 < lsneff> Yeah, etching is Dan Berard did for his diy STM, but AFM probes are a whole different beast.
11:46 < lsneff> They have cantilever that's micrometers long
11:46 < fenn> or cutting them with wire cutters
11:47 < fenn> make it out of DNA :D
11:48 < fenn> now you know why fenn spent years on engineering dependency resolution software
11:49 < lsneff> Actually, that's not a bad idea
11:49 < lsneff> I wonder if they could be made with protein engineering
11:54 < fltrz> fenn, yeah, but in my case they erroneously believe the charge displaced across a capacitor is equal to 1/2 C V^2
11:55 < fenn> right, a misunderstanding of http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capeng.html#c1
11:56 < kanzure> hypherphysics/hbase is still around? cc bsm117532
11:56 < fenn> probably sci-hub doesn't have chinese journals because nobody subscribes to them
11:57 < fltrz> how do you guys get articles from chinese journals? they all seem to require a phone for registration, and I tried a free chinese phone SMS -> web interface
11:57 < fenn> yuck
11:57 < fltrz> but I'm not seeing my verification code, only other's codes
11:57 < L29Ah> juri_: support what
11:57 < L29Ah> benchy requires no supports
11:58 < fltrz> fenn, so nobody in chinese academia is leaking them?
11:58 < fltrz> also, what about african universities in places the chinese influence more?
11:59 < fltrz> i'd expect both chinese and africans to be familiar with sci-hub
11:59 < fenn> i haven't actually run across any papers from chinese or african journals
11:59 < fenn> if a website is impossible to use, i tend to just ignore it
11:59 < fltrz> like never?
11:59 < fltrz> physica sinica or whats it called
12:00 < fltrz> i'm all for sci-hub but it shouldn't be a one way street
12:01 < fenn> American Physical Society is what comes to mind when i see APS
12:01 < kanzure> "if a website is impossible to use, i tend to just ignore it" note the rare berkeley-based hipster is a more rare species, which prefers to browse the web using dillo
12:01 < fenn> there's so much stuff to read, the least they could do is offer HTML
12:04 < fenn> i'm a little concerned about the general lack of mirroring for open access articles and copyleft media in general
12:05 < fenn> as more research goes open, there's less backups floating around for when the journal inevitably goes offline
12:07 < fenn> it doesn't trigger the hoarding instinct
12:13 < fltrz> fenn, we need a tax on science empty HDD's, with the money piped to science filled HDD's to motivate HDD'mfrs to fill them with sci-hub etc. the user can always format. the HDD's undergo a lengthy scan anyway to find bad sectors on the drive
12:13 < fltrz> might as well write sci-hub bits and check if they properly read back
12:14 < fltrz> want a cheaper HDD? buy the science filled one
12:14 < L29Ah> taxman
12:14 < fenn> you need a uniqueness metric, but duplicate detection over large datasets is a hard problem
12:14 < fenn> if it's not bit identical
12:15 < fltrz> governments should keep an index of science articles, and the day of manufacture should be hashed and the articles binned such that its verifiable if they wrote the correct random sample of articles
12:16 < fenn> political dynamics will ensure that the hard drives are all 99% full of synthetic K-pop porn
12:17 < fenn> K-pop meaning BTS specifically
12:17 < fltrz> then we release the private keys for gov and HDD mfr entities
12:17 < fltrz> until compliant
12:19 < fltrz> strip trustzone away
12:19  * L29Ah strips fltrz
12:20 < fltrz> just the messenger
12:21  * fltrz off to peer a little more into the crystal ball
12:25 < lsneff> So, it's probably possible to make the AFM probes if I decided to build some sort of photolithography station. The probes themselves are large, much larger than λ, so it doesn't need any super high-wavelength light. I'd need to find a way to apply an etching block or coating and then burn it off or deactivate it with light passing through an LCD and a focusing lens.
12:25 < lsneff> The tip would then need to be etched differently.
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14:58 < TMA> I have learned to turn down my hoarding instinct. There's just not enough space to hoard into.
14:59 < TMA> there's enough free space to keep everything (barely) functional but no more. this is invariant with the total amount of space available
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15:26 < lsneff> .t https://www.icspicorp.com/ngauge#specs
15:26 < saxo> AFM images on your benchtop with the nGauge AFM — ICSPI
15:26 < lsneff> Has a tip with build in mems actuators.
15:28 < docl> nice! I wonder what they cost
15:28 < L29Ah> TMA: just get more space
15:28 < L29Ah> universe is infinite, so you have a lot of space to hoard
15:29 < lsneff> A lot, the probes cost $250 which is pretty cheap actually, but the units themselves are "Request for quote"
15:29 < docl> sounds like it uses mems to cancel vibrations
15:29 < lsneff> And tips are ~80 nm wide, which isn't great
15:30 < lsneff> It uses mems to translate the tip
15:30 < lsneff> At least that's what it seems like to me, could be wrong
15:39 < TMA> L29Ah: aquisition costs are nonzero
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17:40 < lsneff> http://www.madcitylabs.com/tuningforks.html
17:40 < lsneff> How how I supposed to actually buy anything from them
17:41 < lsneff> Also, I need to read a paper that's in korean, anyone know software that can translate a pdf?
17:43 < L29Ah> pro tip: if a <50yo paper is not in English, it's probably garbage
17:44 < lsneff> It certainly might be, but it could also contain useful info
17:46 < L29Ah> anyway i recall google being able to translate pdfs
17:46 < L29Ah> if it has a text layer at least
17:48 < lsneff> Ah, thanks
17:48 < lsneff> Speaking of, flirtz, have you had any luck with getting papers from chinese journals?
17:48 < lsneff> * fltrz
17:51 < lsneff> Actually nvm, found it
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18:57 < lsneff> I think I a way to do AFM without micromanufacturing. A tungsten wire can be etched as fenn said, and then I can glue it to a quartz tuning fork.
18:57 < lsneff> *found a way
19:06 < fenn> i had probably read that page at some point
19:09 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/How%20to%20build%20a%20plastic%20AFM.html
19:09 < kanzure> knock yourself out https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/AFM/
19:11 < kanzure> hm not much there
19:11 < kanzure> who's responsible for this
19:12 < lsneff> a plastic afm head 🤔
19:12 < lsneff> Anyhow, I'll keep you all posted
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19:31 < fenn> that plastic afm looks a lot less crappy than the one i'm remembering
19:31 < fenn> basically some 1/4-20 screws and a piezo speaker disc
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22:17 < lsneff> That plastic afm document is nearly useless. It almost feels like it's missing pages.
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 21 00:00:53 2020