--- Log opened Fri Nov 13 00:00:15 2020
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09:17 < kanzure> sianet/skynet might be okay for gitchain purposes
09:17 < kanzure> at least for lookup to find where a canonical repo might be located
09:17 < kanzure> they also have the weirdo skydb thing now
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10:35 < kanzure> "Encrypting messages with artificial bacterial receptors" https://www.beilstein-journals.org/bjoc/articles/16/225
10:35 < kanzure> looks like a really poorly designed PRNG to me
10:50 < lsneff> kanzure: sianet? Nothing's showing up on google for me
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11:08 < archels> free calendar, US addresses only https://info.cell.com/cell-picture-show-2021
11:42 < kanzure> lsneff: skynet/sia
11:44 < lsneff> Who's running the skynet servers?
11:46 < kanzure> the portals are ran by known entities but the portals are not required
11:47 < kanzure> the nodes on the sia network are run by whoever launches a node; you pay them to store data, and you stripe it across a number of providers on the network that you choose.
11:47 < kanzure> https://blog.sia.tech/skydb-a-mutable-database-for-the-decentralized-web-7170beeaa985
11:49 < kanzure> https://nebulouslabs.github.io/skynet-docs/?javascript--browser#skydb
11:49 < kanzure> andytoshi: what can we do with that indistinguishability obfuscation result from the other day?
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11:52 < andytoshi> kanzure: i don't think it's nearly practical ... so "nothing"
11:52 < andytoshi> but it's a big enough result that it may lead to other things
11:52 < andytoshi> very quickly
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11:53 < andytoshi> see also https://www.quantamagazine.org/computer-scientists-achieve-crown-jewel-of-cryptography-20201110/ that real_or_random shared with me about it
11:58 < andytoshi> but to be clear, if iO were practical, this would give us witness encryption (you could encrypt data to a future bitcoin block say), functional encryption (you could encrypt data and give users different keys corresponding to different programs they could run on the encrypted data), deniable encryption (you can lie about what data was encrypted)
11:58 < andytoshi> as well as basically every other "normal" crypto primitive
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13:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1327127912223559681
13:41 < saxo> I absolutely hate percentage wording being used for reporting and any kind of discourse. // You have no idea if the person talking or their audience realizes "increased by 200%" actually means tripling. Just say tripled. // It's a horrible flourish and should die in a fire. (@SwiftOnSecurity)
13:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/pwuille/status/1327321303792029697
13:41 < saxo> Controversial opinion: we should use neper as unit for relative growth. // neper = log(new_value) - log(old_value) // 1% growth = ~0.01 neper / 10% growth = ~0.095 neper / doubling = ~0.69 neper // 10% growth + 10% growth = 21%(!) growth = 0.095+0.095 neper = 0.19 neper. https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1327127912223559681 (@pwuille)
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13:50 < lsneff> really enjoying learning how to program fpgas
13:50 < lsneff> much more interesting than regular programming
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15:24 < kanzure> lsneff: try https://github.com/google/xls
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16:23 < lsneff> kanzure: I've seen that and it looks awesome, but I don't think there's been any work done to connect it to an open-source fpga toolchain as far as I can tell.
16:24 < lsneff> I could investigate that, but I'm pretty busy as is
16:31 < lsneff> Doing more in-depth reading on it. It can just spit out verilog, so that would be fine. They have some examples of it on an ice40 as well.
16:34 < lsneff> So, as far as I can tell, you need a wrapper written in verilog for each synthesized xls codebase, but I can confirm later after building and trying it out.
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17:06 < nmz787> fenn: yes it's just a spectrogram, but very satisfying performance. cmd-line with an openGL rendering. I just like all the visual tunability
17:07 < nmz787> archels: oh yes that's also very cool
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18:49 < kanzure> lsneff: cool, let me know
18:49 < kanzure> lsneff: i want to see it in action
19:02 < lsneff> sure
19:02 < lsneff> It looks like it's not really for clocked stuff maybe? It's hard to tell
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19:06 < lsneff> i've also spent literally a week trying to get a ΣΔ dac to work, so it might be a while...
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20:26 < kanzure> https://github.com/google/libprotobuf-mutator
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20:43 < fenn> "the legacy version of twitter.com. We will be shutting it down on 15 December 2020. Please switch to a supported browser or device" noooooooo
20:52 < kanzure> "we don't want your kind here. no droids."
20:53 < superkuh> On a long enough timescale everyone becomes RMS.
20:54 < kanzure> there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept
21:03  * fenn reluctantly spreads some toe jam on his toest
21:03 < fenn> methanotrophic food webs are acceptable
21:05 < kanzure> fenn do you know ~things about software transactional memory by any chance
21:05 < fenn> nope
21:06 < fenn> is there hardware transactional memory?
21:06 < kanzure> like https://doc.rero.ch/record/18102/files/Riegel_Torvald_-_Snapshot_Isolation_for_Software_Transactional_20100422.pdf
21:06 < kanzure> yes that is a thing
21:08 < fenn> can't this be done with journalling
21:08 < fenn> like, do all the stuff, and then mark it as the latest entry
21:09 < kanzure> you need to evict or fail concurrent unfinished transactions that conflict (due to dirty reads etc)
21:09 < kanzure> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/SSI
21:10 < kanzure> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/transaction-iso.html
21:10 < kanzure> "The SQL standard defines four levels of transaction isolation. The most strict is Serializable, which is defined by the standard in a paragraph which says that any concurrent execution of a set of Serializable transactions is guaranteed to produce the same effect as running them one at a time in some order. The other three levels are defined in terms of phenomena, resulting from interaction ...
21:10 < kanzure> ...between concurrent transactions, which must not occur at each level. The standard notes that due to the definition of Serializable, none of these phenomena are possible at that level. (This is hardly surprising -- if the effect of the transactions must be consistent with having been run one at a time, how could you see any phenomena caused by interactions?)."
21:12 < kanzure> and:
21:12 < kanzure> "To guarantee true serializability PostgreSQL uses predicate locking, which means that it keeps locks which allow it to determine when a write would have had an impact on the result of a previous read from a concurrent transaction, had it run first. In PostgreSQL these locks do not cause any blocking and therefore can not play any part in causing a deadlock. They are used to identify and flag ...
21:12 < kanzure> ...dependencies among concurrent Serializable transactions which in certain combinations can lead to serialization anomalies."
21:13 < kanzure> anyway, i'm trying to figure out why only databases provide transactional interfaces
21:13 < fenn> so, with predicate locking, does that mean it will retroactively mark a transaction as "bad" because the input data changed?
21:13 < kanzure> and not all of the downstream applications that use databases with these magical capabilities
21:13 < kanzure> "retroactively" not quite, pretty sure it's marked before the transaction is concluded by the user
21:14 < fenn> without blocking, there's always going to be a short period of time between reading the state of the journal and writing the "transaction complete" flag
21:15 < fenn> you can front load as much as you want but it doesn't 100% eliminate that time
21:15  * fenn reads more
21:15 < kanzure> postgresql uses "serializable snapshot isolation" as its multiversion concurrency control routine https://drkp.net/papers/ssi-vldb12.pdf
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21:26 < fenn> hm. well this is all great as long as your database is fast i guess
21:27 < fenn> with bitcoin it takes >10 minutes before you're sure the transaction is complete
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21:30 < fenn> how do you test code that runs when a transaction fails?
21:30 < fenn> is there some sort of "stomp all over each others toes" testing mode for testing sharded databases?
21:34 < fenn> you'd think there would have been invented a long time ago some sort of artificial token (representing dollars, say) that is reassigned between accounts in a database, rather than relying strongly on the transaction correctness to maintain a constant total number of e.g. dollars
21:34 < fenn> it would be useful for preventing accounting errors (bugs) even without dragging in all the rest of the cryptocurrency concepts
21:35 < fenn> so instead of "add 100 dollars to account XYZ; subtract 100 dollars from account ABC" you'd do "for 1 to 100 do move token from XYZ to ABC"
21:36 < fenn> and there could be bigger token sizes than 1 dollar of course
21:37 < fenn> then in the worst case the ownership of a token is left in an uncertain state
21:38 < fenn> there'd never be a situation where tokens are created or destroyed (except when that's the intent of the system)
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22:04 < lsneff> I think haskell has an STM implementation
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 14 00:00:16 2020