--- Log opened Tue Dec 22 00:00:52 2020 00:14 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:17 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 < fenn> http://www.churchofsqrls.com Praises Be! 00:57 < fenn> In Scienfoology, as we shall see, we ALWAYS worship the top of the pyramid, and those that are on it or in it.  So, when worshipping our Most Eminent Superiors at the FDA for example, “Shameless Government Parasite” is a Title of Great Honor. 01:20 < fenn> We are now finally well-prepared to deal with matters of medicine for humans as provided by GAWD, and how Scienfoology (FDA-worshipping Diocese) can provide non-medical (religious-liberty-based) care for your health care needs, WITHOUT violating the Sacred Power-Pyramid-Worshipping ways that have been blessed by GAWD Himself! 02:10 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24 -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xwwfwgktxpcskqtu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:25 -!- cannedprimates_ [sid16585@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acjdluhpycdaqmdv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- pointfree [sid204397@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwnghauqluozckdb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:35 -!- yonkunas [uid403824@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svkfskaxbmmilcsz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:16 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:13 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tijihlumovyutsxm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:39 < kanzure> archels: you know about http://www.tnb.ua.ac.be/mailman/listinfo/comp-neuro right 06:51 < kanzure> monitors https://www.panelook.com/ 06:51 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laawkhgngrrmdeuw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:27 < kanzure> ryan fugger's old ripple site https://rumplepay.com/ was previously at https://classic.ripplepay.com/ 07:43 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tijihlumovyutsxm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:01 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aplaatrqhvtruwiz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:20 -!- onemmt [~gb@189.7.155.162] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:23 -!- onemmt [~gb@189.7.155.162] has quit [Client Quit] 09:22 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:7167:9340:5cee:986b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 < archels> kanzure: I think that's how I found my current job 10:11 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aplaatrqhvtruwiz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:51 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:53 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:15 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 < lsneff> Huh, Chris Phoenix just messaged me, any of you remember him? 11:42 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmlbmgwqpijgexii] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:51 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laawkhgngrrmdeuw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:58 < fenn> nanotech! 12:03 < fenn> http://www.nanotech-now.com/Chris-Phoenix/ethical-nano.htm 12:04 < fenn> typical 12:10 < lsneff> I contacted him about a year ago, back when I was first investigating the cad thing 12:44 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgniyohrjvipiwkl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:36 < kanzure> archels: i've unsubscribed just fyi 14:41 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmlbmgwqpijgexii] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:53 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgniyohrjvipiwkl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:07 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xblhyzstttkpbbbc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:08 < juri_> lsneff: there's still plenty of space in the cad software world. :) 16:14 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xblhyzstttkpbbbc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:27 < lsneff> Indeed! 17:27 < lsneff> Maybe at some point I'll get back into it, but I have several projects to finish first. 17:29 < lsneff> Back into cad, that is. 17:29 < lsneff> Not the nano cad thing 17:57 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:7167:9340:5cee:986b] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:04 < fenn> http://fee.org/articles/we-had-the-vaccine-from-the-start-you-just-werent-allowed-to-take-it/ 19:10 < superkuh> Hindsight is easy. 19:11 < L29Ah> the point is not related to hindsight 19:11 < L29Ah> > Why are hundreds of thousands of "natural" deaths from a rampaging disease considered acceptable to the FDA—while the remote possibility of one or two deaths, in the absolute worst case scenario, among well-informed vaccine-testing volunteers are not? 19:12 < superkuh> Remote possibility? From a type of vaccine never tried before? 19:13 < superkuh> It all seems normal enough now but in Feb 2020 the idea of an mRNA vaccine getting approve was crazy. 19:13 < L29Ah> even in case of an expected 100% causality rate among the participants it wouldn't make sense to forbid the trial 19:13 < superkuh> Yes, but what about all the other trials that would be allowed? 19:13 < L29Ah> what's wrong with them? 19:13 < superkuh> It would've been such a shitshow. 19:13 < superkuh> No, lowering the bar on clinical trials for vaccines is not a good idea. 19:14 < superkuh> Now, I'm not saying you prevent people from doing it themselves. Certainly not. 19:14 < superkuh> But commercializing it... 19:14 < L29Ah> people kill themselves voluntarily in huge amounts w/o any use, why can't they help research in the meantime? 19:14 < superkuh> That's a different set of rules. 19:15 < L29Ah> and those are informed and consented volunteers, not death row inmates or muggers' victims 19:27 < kanzure> FDA https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2019/07/the-federal-death-agency-fda/ 19:29 < L29Ah> superkuh: in other news, should we ban Elon from sending humans one way to Mars? 19:30 < superkuh> No. 19:30 < L29Ah> It would've been such a shitshow. 19:30 < kanzure> yes, but only to aggravate him enough to do it anyway punk style 19:30 < superkuh> Oh, are there thousands of companies with that capability? 19:30 < L29Ah> poor meatbags straving for oxygen or dying from cancer 19:31 < L29Ah> we can't make it happen 19:31 < superkuh> Enough to flood the market with snake oil rockets? 19:31 < superkuh> I wish. 19:31 < kanzure> i don't think rockets are powered by snake oil 19:31 < kanzure> just regular kinds of oil 19:31 < L29Ah> until Elon is ready to provide the ticket back 19:31 < L29Ah> so the colonists could get their dentist appointment in time 19:32 < superkuh> Do you remember people drinking toilet cleaner and such? 19:32 < L29Ah> it would be inhumane to let them go without such basic provisions 19:32 < superkuh> And big names backing things that absolutely did not work. 19:32 < superkuh> Over and over. 19:32 < L29Ah> superkuh: so? 19:33 < superkuh> I guess if you don't follow I can't explain. 19:34 < L29Ah> i don't follow your paranoidal hints indeed 19:39 < kanzure> clinical trials are a specific thing that exist under a regulatory structure 19:39 < kanzure> if you just want to test, you don't need "clinical trials" (subject to other law requirements around large-scale testing) 19:39 < superkuh> I'm just saying you do if you want to incorporate and abstract liability. I am not arguing against doing it as a individual or group of individuals. 19:39 < kanzure> yep 19:40 < kanzure> now as for the snake oil argument.... is the cure (regulation) worse than the disease? i don't know. 19:41 < L29Ah> 06:39:21] if you just want to test, you don't need "clinical trials" (subject to other law requirements around large-scale testing) 19:41 < L29Ah> i'm pretty sure that you'll have legal problems distributing your product for widespread "testing" in USA w/o getting through the legal trials thing first 19:41 < L29Ah> as otherwise there would be drugs marketed likewise with the caveat emptor agreement 19:41 < fenn> L29Ah: maybe you misunderstood what "reusable" means. the rocket can take off from mars (with passengers) and return to earth for reuse 19:41 < fenn> and that's the plan 19:42 < L29Ah> fenn: you need a LOT of propellant for that, and you aren't going to produce it on Mars any time soon 19:42 < kanzure> not with that attitude. 19:42 < fenn> you need to spend about 20% of your payload capacity on thin film solar and chemical processing equipment 19:42 < L29Ah> so is the martian survival youtube show going to be postponed until robots will establish the propellant plant? 19:43 < fenn> you seem to be confusing Mars One with SpaceX 19:43 < L29Ah> i don't follow their exact plans, i'm talkinga bout the abstract Elon that goes the one-way route 19:43 < fenn> it is totally doable to land propellant for the return journey, as payload 19:44 < kanzure> why is this excluded from the internet archive https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2019/07/the-federal-death-agency-fda/ 19:44 < L29Ah> fenn: sure it is, just much more expensive 19:46 < L29Ah> anyway i only wanted to illustrate the attitude about letting people end their lives however they desire versus restricting them "for the sake of their own good" 19:46 < L29Ah> meanwhile, soda ought to be banned! 19:46 < fenn> i'm confused on what your actual position is. sarcasm doesn't work when you don't share a common understanding 19:46 < L29Ah> pesky capitalists make me buy this shit, then it dissolves my teeth, and then i have to buy even more shit from dentists 19:46 < L29Ah> FDA HELP ME 19:47 * fenn sends L29Ah concentrated fluoride in a can 19:47 < L29Ah> fenn: i already have some sodium fluoride powder and rinse my mouth with the solution once a week, thank you :* 19:49 < fenn> .title https://hcqmeta.com/ 19:49 < saxo> HCQ is effective for COVID-19 when used early: meta analysis of 175 studies 19:51 < fenn> tl;dr it kinda sucks, but it's better than nothing. 65% improvement in outcomes when given early, and 28% improvement when given late 19:55 < L29Ah> fenn: i'm just countering superkuh's objections on the text at the link you've posted; sarcasm is fine to figure the differences in each others' perception of the suggested ideas 19:55 < fenn> please designate your sarcasm 19:57 < L29Ah> implying i know whether my messages are sarcasm 19:57 < fenn> well you better figure it out 19:57 < fenn> cause i'm not gonna 19:57 < L29Ah> why? 19:57 < L29Ah> ah you don't need to 19:57 < L29Ah> you aren't supposed to 19:57 < fenn> here's an easy one 19:57 < fenn> do you drink soda? 19:58 < L29Ah> yea sometimes 19:58 < fenn> see that wasn't hard 19:59 < fenn> now, do you really want to ban passenger service to mars? 20:00 < superkuh> I understood his Mars analogy. It was a corporation sending people to do risky things. A direct comparison to a corporation making a new medicine. 20:00 < L29Ah> fenn: how do i tell what i want? 20:01 < superkuh> I just think medicine is special since it involves intentionally altering the body as a direct cause. Not something secondary. 20:01 < fenn> i'm trying to figure out whether he's holding to a consistent principle or not 20:03 < fenn> banning trips to mars could have been an example of something that would be so dangerous we have to save them from themselves, OR it could have been a sarcastic counterexample meant to illustrate the hypocrisy of banning early stage vaccines 20:05 < fenn> L29Ah: would you get on a one-way trip to mars? 20:06 < fenn> would you let your friend get on one? 20:07 < L29Ah> not in the next 20 years i think; sure 20:10 < fenn> ok so in summary you don't want to ban travel to mars, so it was a sarcastic counterexample to illustrate the hypocrisy of banning vaccines 20:11 * fenn dissolves into a puddle of goo and slithers off... 20:14 * L29Ah feels he's becoming too old for ethical arguments 20:32 < lsneff> any of you played shenzhen io? 20:34 < L29Ah> heard of it but figured i'd better write some real code instead 20:34 -!- Codaraxis [Codaraxis@gateway/vpn/mullvad/codaraxis] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:38 < lsneff> that's a good point 20:47 < fenn> depressing game 20:48 < fenn> try exapunks 20:48 < lsneff> depressing how? 20:49 < fenn> it's all "yay i'm in china and the global economy is shit and i have to work for some shitty electronics company where the HR department doesn't even know my name and i sit in front of a moldy air conditioner in the humid chinese summer" 20:51 < lsneff> sounds pretty relaxing to me honestly 20:51 < fenn> and i can all too easily see it being the actual future, and i don't like it 20:54 < lsneff> fair enough 20:54 < lsneff> what's exapunks like? 20:55 < fenn> pretty much the same game, but you're a 1980s hacker reading zines about how to hack your own brain with nanotechnology robots 20:55 < fltrz> I don't really understand why adults game 20:56 < fenn> i don't like zachtronics games 20:56 < fenn> some of the aesthetic choices are interesting 20:56 < fenn> but like, i could write an actual program in assembly instead 21:18 < L29Ah> i wonder how costly is for one to obtain metformin w/o a prescription in USA 21:28 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ynygvgyleunpznib] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:30 < fenn> i guess i should mention that i actually worked at a chinese electornics company once 21:30 < L29Ah> in other news, my homemade conductive gel for EEG works fine, now i'm wondering whether i should find something like a roll-on applicator or try to make it thicker by adding even more polyacrylate (and spending a shitload of time for it to dissolve on a reflux) 21:32 < fenn> do you shave your head? 21:32 < fenn> roll-on + hair = does not compute 21:36 < L29Ah> er, ECG 21:37 < L29Ah> i'm too lazy to play with EEG yet, as for now the only good use case i can come up with is an intelligent alarm clock 21:38 < fenn> nmz787 thinks it might actually be useful if you increase the sampling rate to like GHz 21:39 < L29Ah> lol i doubt it 21:39 * fenn gets out the giant squeeze bottle of Machine Learning 21:39 < fenn> how about now 21:39 < L29Ah> more like if i increased the number of electrodes to like k1 21:40 < L29Ah> machine learning experiments are an infinite time sink :( 22:21 -!- Malvolio is now known as ThermoDae 22:40 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:40 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:36 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ynygvgyleunpznib] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] --- Log closed Wed Dec 23 00:00:54 2020