--- Log opened Thu Dec 24 00:00:55 2020
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00:58 < TMA> fltrz: something something (failed) Czech vaccine
01:00 < TMA> fltrz: there was a talk, that one (maybe even three) Czech teams will make a vaccine, using a dead/inactivated virus. It was a spectacular failure from the very start (starting late with next to no plan for clinical testing and such)
01:01 < TMA> fltrz: maybe they wrote a paper about their "success"
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06:54 < fltrz> even good ideas can be botched
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12:41 < nmz787>  L29Ah: I def still want to see some high-MHz or GHz sampling stuff... whether that's ECG/EEG/RF/electrode-implant
12:42 < nmz787> there are some academics that are finally getting closer to proving this argument/experiment as legitimately useful to the rest of the community
12:48 < nmz787> i.e. https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/web.sas.upenn.edu/dist/9/448/files/2020/03/Chien-et-al.-2019-Single-Stranded-DNA-Translocation-Recordings-throu.pdf
12:50 < nmz787> "Here, we assume a constant DNA speed to estimate the dwell time per nucleotide, and we record τdwell/nt between 2 and 21 ns/nt across the pores studied, which is 5−50 times shorter than what is resolvable at 10 MHz bandwidth."
12:54 < nmz787> also, y'know... we can sense THz frequencies (our eyes)... snakes a little lower in the THz... so it wouldn't surprise me at all even with serial-to-parallel sort of architectures that we'd see MHz and GHz events
13:08 < fenn> that last point makes you sound pretty cranky
13:08 < fenn> i thought the idea was simply to get enough resolution to detect single neuron firing events
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18:35 < L29Ah> i wonder how viruses figure out which genetic material to pack into the capsid-to-be
18:35 < L29Ah> or do proteins just precipitate around whatever fits?
18:43 < superkuh> It'd be a sort of meta-quine if there were proteins have binding affinity for the genetic sequence that codes them. https://www.pnas.org/content/116/45/22485 "The measurements show that a small nucleus of proteins must form on the viral RNA before the capsid assembles."
18:47 < L29Ah> thanks
18:48 < L29Ah> probably it's a wee bit different for DNA viruses
19:05 < L29Ah> https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14310 kinda
19:17 < superkuh> A long floppy barrel that goes rigid when the dna arrives.
19:46 < fenn> sometimes viruses package the wrong DNA and inject it into other cells
19:46 < fenn> this has interesting consequences on long timescales
19:49  * L29Ah wonders whether he wants to get that Sputnik V vaccine injected or face the virus as is
19:50 < L29Ah> apart from the time wasted on getting vaccinated, the vaccine seems to provide a better outcome on any other measure
19:57 < lsneff> you're in russia?
19:59 < L29Ah> yup
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20:10 < fenn> supposedly 70% of covid infections (even asymptomatic ones) show heart damage
20:13 < fenn> "Vaccines are all about mitigating risks. So let’s look at the known and unknown risks. First, an assumption: you either decide to get the vaccine, or you resign yourself to getting infected. This reasonable assumption simplifies things to two choices.
20:13 < fenn> Next, let’s compare known short-term risks, because at this point we actually have a good estimate of these numbers. If you are, like me, a mid-40s person with no major comorbity, then the Infection Fatality Ratio is 1/500 to 1/1000. If you are, like my parents, early 70s then this risk of death jumps to 1/20 to 1/25
20:14 < fenn> Now let’s consider the two vaccines hitting the market. There have been about 40000 people who have received an mRNA vaccine in stage 3 clinical studies. (Note that I’m lumping the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines together since they rely on very similar vaccine makeup.) None of the recipients of either vaccine have had any major issues, let alone death, so we can put an upper limit on
20:14 < fenn> risk as being less than 1/40000.
20:15 < fenn> Summary of short-term risk: for me to choose the vaccine is *at least* 40 times more safe than choosing to not get vaccinated. For my parents, it is at least 1600 times more safe to choose the vaccine. Likely much better than that though, so the short term risk mitigation is a no brainer.
20:15 < fenn> About 10-20% of patients develop “long COVID”, where many of the symptoms of acute COVID (fever, difficulty breathing, brain fog, etc) last many months. I know of a scientist who got infected in March; she just recovered her sense of smell a week ago and she still has brain fog. Furthermore, a German study estimates that 70% of infected people (regardless of whether are symptomatic or
20:15 < fenn> asymptomatic) will have detectable heart damage 3 months post-infection.  How long the damage lasts is still being studied
20:16 < fenn> negative reactions from a vaccine (if there are any) almost always manifest in the first month or two after vaccination
20:16 < fenn> Infection has at least 1/10 chance of long Covid, and up to 7/10 chance of long term damage. Vaccination has lower than 1/100 chance of any long-term negative consequences, and is likely MUCH lower than 1/100. Vaccine is at least 70 times better in the long run.
20:17 < fenn> "
20:17 < fenn> this was about mRNA vaccines but the numbers for Sputnik V can't be that far off
20:22 < fenn> the number 100 comes from 100 patients in the phase 1 studies, which have been monitored for the longest amount of time
20:23 < fenn> also consider that being vaccinated probably reduces the chance that you will transmit the virus to others
20:25 < fenn> unfortunately he is confusing "patients" with "infections" which are not the same thing
20:44 < fenn> the subjects in the german study were all patients, consisting of asymptomatic (18%) minor to moderate (49%) and severe (33%)
20:49 < fenn> looking at the raw data, whether symptomatic or not doesn't seem to matter as far as cardiology biomarkers are concerned
20:51 < fenn> https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/articlepdf/2768916/jamacardiology_puntmann_2020_oi_200057_1605207404.62135.pdf
20:54 < fenn> merry christmas. ho! ho! ho!
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23:30 < L29Ah> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/8/8b/Ded_Moroz_by_Solomon_Boim_1941.jpg
23:46 < fenn> has NORAD gotten a radar lock on Santa yet?
23:52 < fenn> https://www.noradsanta.org/
23:53 < fenn> he's right on top of you!
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 25 00:00:42 2020